Sorcerer help?

[noparlpf]

I'm trying to get a 6th level sorcerer 4th level spells.
I know about the Kobold Sorcerer with three feats effectively getting an extra sorcerer level, but that's not quite enough to reach 4th level spells.
I know about the Dragonspawn template from Dragonlance, but we're not doing LA buyoff and I can't afford it anyway (for one-shots we use the rule that 1XP=5gp whenever XP comes up).

Any ideas?

[Infernalbargain]

Lore drake from dragons of eberron if DM doesn't care about mixing setting material.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

There's the Loredrake archtype in Dragons of Eberron, which any true dragon can gain at no cost other than the drawbacks detailed in a given archtype. Since a Dragonwrought Kobold is a true dragon (dragon creature type, age categories), he can take Loredrake. Its benefit is an additional +2 levels of sorcerer spellcasting ability, the drawbacks are a reduced HD for racial hit dice (irrelevant), and loss of cleric spell access to racial spellcasting ability (irrelevant).

A Dragonwrought Kobold can gain Loredrake, thus adding +2 levels of Sorcerer spellcasting ability above whatever class levels he has.

A Dragonwrought Kobold cannot gain the Dragonspawn template, it is completely impossible. Dragonspawn is an inherited template, and it cannot be added to a dragon. It is specifically stated that even as an egg, a dragonwrought kobold is recognizable, thus there is no point in a dragonwrought kobold's existence when he is not a dragon.

A Kobold can gain +1 effective level of Sorcerer not for three feats, but for just one, plus two rituals that only kobolds can perform. The first is the Draconic Rite of Passage in Races of the Dragon, and then no sooner than 6th level he can perform the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) (the required feat is on that same page), which is what gives him the +1 level of spellcasting ability.

There's also the Spellhoarding template, which is the result of a mental disorder, detailed in Dragon magazine issue 313. It's actually mostly beneficial, and it trades your Sorcerer spellcasting ability for Wizard spellcasting of equal level, and you don't need a spellbook because you write your spells onto your scales. You could use the Battle Sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer) variant along with the Stalwart Sorcerer variant in Complete Mage, for increased HD, bonus HP, and a few weapon proficiencies, for fewer Sorcerer spells known and spells/day, but then trade your entire Sorcerer spellcasting ability for Wizard spellcasting of equal level. Thus the drawbacks of Stalwart and Battle Sorcerer would be negated, and your Loredrake and Greater Rite of Passage bonuses would go toward Wizard spellcasting instead. You could even get one level of Wizard before gaining Spellhoarding to specialize and gain alternate class features such as Abrupt Jaunt.

[noparlpf]

Does that apply to Sorcerer class levels? Because I know Sorcerer levels and racial casting ability don't stack.

[Paul H]

Hi

Can't see a way of breaking the rules as you seem to want to.

However...........

Do you have to play a Sorceror? There are some spont classes that get some of the spells earlier.

Eg Summoner (APG) in PF gets:

Lvl 2: Haste, Phantom Steed
Lvl 3: Black Tentacles, Dim Door, Fire Shield, Stoneskin, Summon Monster IV, Wall of Fire, Wall of Ice
Lvl 4: Summon Monster V, Teleport.

(In addition to some other nice abilities, wear Lt Armour with no ASF etc).

Highly specialised, but you get the idea...

Thanks
Paul H

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Does that apply to Sorcerer class levels? Because I know Sorcerer levels and racial casting ability don't stack.

Actually, if something has a racial spellcasting ability and gains class levels in that same class, then they do indeed stack.

As for your question, "Once the dragon has the ability to cast spells, his effective sorcerer level is increased by two." That is the relevant sentence in the Loredrake archtype, so gaining any source of spellcasting would automatically give you two levels of Sorcerer spellcasting ability.

[noparlpf]

A Kobold can gain +1 effective level of Sorcerer not for three feats, but for just one, plus two rituals that only kobolds can perform. The first is the Draconic Rite of Passage in Races of the Dragon, and then no sooner than 6th level he can perform the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) (the required feat is on that same page), which is what gives him the +1 level of spellcasting ability.

There's also the Spellhoarding template, which is the result of a mental disorder, detailed in Dragon magazine issue 313. It's actually mostly beneficial, and it trades your Sorcerer spellcasting ability for Wizard spellcasting of equal level, and you don't need a spellbook because you write your spells onto your scales. You could use the Battle Sorcerer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#sorcererVariantBattleS orcerer) variant along with the Stalwart Sorcerer variant in Complete Mage, for increased HD, bonus HP, and a few weapon proficiencies, for fewer Sorcerer spells known and spells/day, but then trade your entire Sorcerer spellcasting ability for Wizard spellcasting of equal level. Thus the drawbacks of Stalwart and Battle Sorcerer would be negated, and your Loredrake and Greater Rite of Passage bonuses would go toward Wizard spellcasting instead. You could even get one level of Wizard before gaining Spellhoarding to specialize and gain alternate class features such as Abrupt Jaunt.

Oh, so the Draconic Rite of Passage (and the Greater one) aren't feats? I was thinking they were. Sweet deal, so it only costs some gold and one feat.

As for the variants and Spellhoarding, I think if I come to the table with effectively d10 HD and 5th level spells at 6th level I'll get kicked out. I'm even fairly sure the DM will say no if I have 4th level spells, but it's worth a shot, right?

[DeAnno]

Generally, my view is that the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage is strong, but at least it's RAI as well as RAW, so it shouldn't be too hard to sell it to your DM (giving Kobold Sorcs +1 Sorc level of casting is clearly what it's intended to do.)

On the other hand, Loredrake and the rest of those shennanigans are just heavily abused RAW, and semi-questionable RAW at that, and likely to just get your DM frustrated and make him throw out the whole package. They were intended as ways to flavor Dragons differently, and the only reason they work by RAW is that the Dragonwrought feat and "True Dragon" quality are so lazily defined.

[noparlpf]

Since a Dragonwrought Kobold is a true dragon (dragon creature type, age categories)

Would you mind coming over to this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216048) and explaining this? I'd like an explanation, just not on this thread.

[Keld Denar]

Do you need to be able to cast a specific 4th level spell? Or just 4th level spells in general (ie, to meet a PrC prereq?). Cause if its the latter, you can pull it off with any number of various early entry techniques. Sanctum Spell is the most straightforward and simple. A 3rd level slot Sanctum Spell is, for all intents and purposes, a 4th level spell. Thus, you qualify, even when not in your sanctum since you have the ABILITY to, and thats all that matters. Requires 1 other MM feat first, so take something like Empower or Fell Draining or Quicken(setting you up to take Rapid Metamagic at 9th).

Another way is via Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten Spell. You can burn 2 3rd level slots to cast a 4th level spell, which is really just a 3rd level spell Heightened to 4th level. Again, for all intents and purposes, it is a 4th level spell, and thus qualifies.

Earth Sense + Earth Spell + Heighten Spell also works, but requires 3 feats. Still, a pretty useful combo even for non-Shadowcraft Mages. Take a 0th-2nd level spell, Heighten it to 3rd, and Earth Spell grabs it and tacks on a free level. Thus, its a 4th level spell.

The last way requires you to be Illumian, which you aren't, but the Improved Sigil(Krau) feat works under the same principle that Sanctum Spell does. Only one feat spent, but requires a funky race.

[noparlpf]

I really just wanted to mess with the DM; I'm in a pretty casual gaming circle. I guess I should save it for April Fool's Day.