ACF for a druid that removes or alters casting? [Archive]

Jack_Simth

2011-09-20, 05:08 PM

Does such a thing exist? Other than Spontaneous Rejuvenation from PHB 2 that is?

- Aerlock
Well, there's the Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger), who can't spontaneously Summon, and the Spontaneous Divine Casting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/spontaneousDivineCasters.htm) variant itself.

mootoall

2011-09-20, 05:08 PM

Does such a thing exist? Other than Spontaneous Rejuvenation from PHB 2 that is?

- Aerlock

Druidic Avenger gets rid of spontaneous SNAs for Fast Movement and Rage.

Edit: Hmm, if I light myself on fire the ninjas can't catch me.

Drelua

2011-09-20, 05:16 PM

If you want this for fluff, I can help. If you want to actually play the Druid class without spellcasting, I can't. You know, unless you just take a negative wisdom modifier. :smalltongue:

If you want the fluff, try a wildshape ranger (I've heard it mentioned on these threads a lot, don't know where it can be found) then look at the no spellcasting ranger variant from Kobold Quarterly. I especially like the ranger talent that gets you a second animal companion, and makes you effective druid level equal to your ranger level for both. It's meant for Pathfinder, but it could probably converted to 3.5 fairly easily. Or you could just go with the little bit of casting, but don't even look at Complete Warrior no casting variant. You'd be wasting your time, believe me.

I'm not sure if this helps, but I figured it couldn't hurt.

flumphy

2011-09-20, 05:17 PM

ericgrau

2011-09-20, 06:18 PM

Hierophant doesn't advance your spells per day (or wild shape or anything druidic) but a single level lets you hand off some of your uses/day of wild shape as much as you want (lasting up to a week in case you're separated) for double the wild shaped goodness. 7th level spells are a pre-req though.

A self-buffing druid without natural spell would need only minimal wisdom, maybe 13-14 at first and then later get it item boosted. By the time you hit 9th level spells you might be forced to spend an inherent bonus or a tome on wisdom, but it won't be so bad by then. With things like hierophant you can delay that level. Or if you somehow stop at 5th level spells (or 7th level for hierophant) you'll already have all the buffs you need. Several potions of mage armor, heroism and such will help too with their long durations. Consider a higher than minimum caster level or extend metamagic in them. Early on protection from evil potions are cheap and helpful when you get a buffing round if you don't take natural spell.

Jack_Simth

2011-09-20, 06:45 PM

Edit: Hmm, if I light myself on fire the ninjas can't catch me.Ah, so you follow the Doctor's work, then?

Jude_H

2011-09-20, 08:07 PM

Does Wild Monk (DR#324) count?

Spontaneous Affliction from Exemplars of Evil drops spontaneous summons for a really crummy sicken ability (sack a spell slot, humanoids 30 ft. away save or become sickened for rounds=SL sacrificed).

mootoall

2011-09-20, 08:16 PM

Ah, so you follow the Doctor's work, then?

The teachings of the Father, Son and Dark Smoke Puncher.

Tvtyrant

2011-09-20, 08:17 PM

Ah, so you follow the Doctor's work, then?

Everyone should follow the good doctors work. And despise King Radical with all their souls.

Jude_H

2011-09-20, 08:21 PM

And despise King Radical with all their souls.But--
but think of the orphans!

Thespianus

2011-09-21, 02:46 AM

Does such a thing exist? Other than Spontaneous Rejuvenation from PHB 2 that is?

No, but swapping Spells for the Swordsage maneuver progression from ToB would be awesome. :smallsmile:

Add a rule that all Stances affect your AC while within 5 ft, like the spell buffs do, and you're golden. :smallbiggrin:

Aerlock

2011-09-21, 11:07 AM

Here's a link to the wildshape ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger). It's found in UA if you need a print source. There's also a 3.5 ranger variant that gives up spellcasting in Complete Champion, where you get feats in exchange. Not the most powerful option, but better than the CW alternative and arguably more mundane in flavor. Besides, if you're giving up spellcasting in the first place you're clearly not out for pure optimization.

Hrmm, that may be the route to go then. Could this wild shape be swapped out for the shapeshifting ACF in the PHB 2? I'm looking for a class with little to no spellcasting and the ability to wild shape/shapeshift.

- Aerlock

The Glyphstone

2011-09-21, 11:10 AM

Everyone should follow the good doctors work. And despise King Radical with all their souls.

Preach it!

flumphy

2011-09-21, 11:22 AM

Hrmm, that may be the route to go then. Could this wild shape be swapped out for the shapeshifting ACF in the PHB 2? I'm looking for a class with little to no spellcasting and the ability to wild shape/shapeshift.

- Aerlock

RAW, no, but it would be reasonable for a DM to allow it. It is, after all, an overall nerf to wildshape.

Out of curiosity, have you looked at the bear warrior from Complete Warrior? It doesn't kick in until level 8 and you only get to shapeshift into bears, but it sounds like it may fit your needs. The primeval from Frostburn also gets a limited amount of shapeshifting with no casting.

Dusk Eclipse

2011-09-21, 11:24 AM

ericgrau

2011-09-21, 12:55 PM

But are there really enough small/medium animals for the ranger shapeshifting to stay effective later?

Dusk Eclipse

2011-09-21, 01:01 PM

But are there really enough small/medium animals for the ranger shapeshifting to stay effective later?

Hence MotMF to add a lot of new forms and you get EX abilties such as leaping pounce from fleshraker

Fouredged Sword

2011-09-21, 01:02 PM

Just be a water orc shapeshifting druidic avenger with spontanious rejuvination and an 8 wis. The class carries it's own weight without spells really. Dip barbarian for whirling frenzy that stacks with rage and pick up extra rage to add extra uses to both. You don't need the wisdom needed to cast those slots if you just use them for fast healing.

Go into a bear warrior dip later for EVEN MORE STRENGTH!

Warshaper is nice as well.

Andorax

2011-09-21, 01:16 PM

I'm looking for a class with little to no spellcasting and the ability to wild shape/shapeshift.

- Aerlock

Oriental Adventures...the aptly-named "Shapeshifter" prestige class.

Requires concentration 10 and some form of innate shapeshifting ability, even if it is minimal (designed with Hengeyokai in mind, Eberron Shifters might work as well).

Aerlock

2011-09-21, 04:02 PM

Non spellcasting wildshape ranger 5/master of the many forms 7/warshaper4/nature's warrior 4?

Is the only non-spellcasting ranger the non-spellcasting ranger from Complete Champ? How does that work if you've traded your combat mastery away for wild shape?

Also what book is nature's warrior in again?

- Aerlock

flumphy

2011-09-21, 04:10 PM

Is the only non-spellcasting ranger the non-spellcasting ranger from Complete Champ? How does that work if you've traded your combat mastery away for wild shape?

Also what book is nature's warrior in again?

- Aerlock

There's one in Complete Warrior that only trades away spellcasting, but yeah...it really sucks. You get fast movement and a couple of 1/day SLAs at levels too late to be of much use.

Nature's Warrior is also in CW.

Dusk Eclipse

2011-09-21, 04:19 PM

Is the only non-spellcasting ranger the non-spellcasting ranger from Complete Champ? How does that work if you've traded your combat mastery away for wild shape?

Also what book is nature's warrior in again?

- Aerlock

There is a non spellcasting ranger in Complete Warrior, gives some random and not that good minor abilities like fast movement at level 6 or getting to use freedom of movement 1/day with CL at 1/2 Ranger level... at level 16 so yeah they are bad.

OTOH Complete Champions offer some (sucky) Bonus feats, but hey bonus feats and they only replace your spellcasting so it doesn't conflict with trading the combat style (though since you now no longer have any combat style I guess you loose a part of the list)

The other options are minor perks that might be worth it, like speak with animals and plants 3/day in exchange of wild empathy

Nature's warrior is in CWar and curiously enough it would give you 2 levels of druid spellcasting (that you can ignore though...)

Edit: Damn swordsages...

Anarchy_Kanya

2011-09-21, 04:24 PM

If you want the fluff, try a wildshape ranger (I've heard it mentioned on these threads a lot, don't know where it can be found) then look at the no spellcasting ranger variant from Kobold Quarterly. I especially like the ranger talent that gets you a second animal companion, and makes you effective druid level equal to your ranger level for both. It's meant for Pathfinder, but it could probably converted to 3.5 fairly easily.
Can I find this online? I mean, I found Kobold Quarterly but can't find the ranger talent you mention.

Drelua

2011-09-21, 04:45 PM

Can I find this online? I mean, I found Kobold Quarterly but can't find the ranger talent you mention.

I don't think you can find it online unless you were to illegally download it which I do not condone at all. The talent is called 'additional animal companion' if you have the magazine, and they get a bunch of other abilities like a smaller sneak attack progression when in a favoured terrain or attacking a favoured enemy, among other things.

Anarchy_Kanya

2011-09-21, 07:15 PM

Oh, so it's a magazine like Dragon & Dungeon, but for PF? Okay, gotcha. Now I got to get my hands on as many issues as I can.

Drelua

2011-09-21, 07:29 PM

Oh, so it's a magazine like Dragon & Dungeon, but for PF? Okay, gotcha. Now I got to get my hands on as many issues as I can.

Actually, it's like that but for all editions. It has a good balance of PF, 3.5 and 4E articles. It's been referred to as the Switzerland of edition wars. One of my favourite articles was the ecology of the froghemoth.