Template Stacking for Minimal Cost

[ShneekeyTheLost]

This all hinges off of the LA Buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) rules. If those are not in effect, this entire post is rendered null and void.

Basically, the idea is to stagger the templates rather than piling them all on at once. After all, each template is only minimal LA value. Which can be separately paid off if you don't pile them all on at once. And, thanks to Surfing the XP Curl, you really won't be all that far behind.

So how does this work? Allow me to explain:

Say you start off with some Inhereted template. Call it 'Generic +1 LA Template A'. By level 3, you can get it paid off.

Right, NOW you go pick yourself up a handy-dandy template. Since you already bought off your inhereted template, you currently don't have any LA. Which means you can pick up yet another +1 LA template, and buy it off again.

Repeat as desired for maximum cheese.

The limitations are that you can't have a bunch of inherited templates, since those all stack on character creation, period, with no way to stagger them. However, you can have almost as many Acquired Templates as you like, as long as you stagger them out.

It is suggested that, prior to employing this potential rules loophole you invest in superior headgear, and get some form of Damage Reduction which works on Bludgeoning and Ranged. Well, maybe also effective against slashing, some of those paper cuts can be pretty nasty, you know.

[Tr011]

This might interest you. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12169)

[Curmudgeon]

According to the LA buyoff rules you're supposed to buy off the level adjustments according to the formula. That means if you acquire a template with LA +1 after 3rd class level, you've already missed your buyoff opportunity.

However, there's nothing wrong with starting with LA +1, buying that off at class level 3, picking up LA +2 between levels 3 and 6 and then buying that off on the schedule (class levels 6 & 9)..

[Keneth]

Any sane DM that would let you use those rules in the first place would simply house rule that on the spot, so you'd have to gain additional levels instead of reaching a set level. In fact, if I was feeling generous, I might allow my players to simply reduce their current LA by 1 when they reach every third level. Templates and LA are ridiculous anyway, they should all just be turned into monster classes. :smallsmile:

[Curmudgeon]

What you think is a reasonable house rule may strike some DMs as munchkin shenanigans. If there's an approach that solves the problem while staying strictly within the rules, isn't that better than asking for trouble?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

According to the LA buyoff rules you're supposed to buy off the level adjustments according to the formula. That means if you acquire a template with LA +1 after 3rd class level, you've already missed your buyoff opportunity.

However, there's nothing wrong with starting with LA +1, buying that off at class level 3, picking up LA +2 between levels 3 and 6 and then buying that off on the schedule (class levels 6 & 9)..

Or picking up, and buying off, multiple +1 templates at level 3, using the XP cost to continue keeping him at level 3 until he's done. Then picking one up around level 5-6 and start paying that one off as well, as normal.

[Curmudgeon]

Or picking up, and buying off, multiple +1 templates at level 3, using the XP cost to continue keeping him at level 3 until he's done. Then picking one up around level 5-6 and start paying that one off as well, as normal.

Once the total of a character's class levels (not including any Hit Dice from his creature type or his level adjustment) reaches three times his level adjustment, his level adjustment is eligible to be decreased by 1.
You're only reaching that level once. Following that rule strictly, you get just one opportunity to decrease level adjustment (by 1) at that level. It's not an "all you can reduce" buffet.

[Keneth]

What you think is a reasonable house rule may strike some DMs as munchkin shenanigans. If there's an approach that solves the problem while staying strictly within the rules, isn't that better than asking for trouble?
I meant that more as an example than a suggestion. Obviously there's better solutions but the point was that no DM would let you abuse the rules so blatantly even if they did provide such a loophole. :smallsmile:

[AzraeltheFalle]

You're only reaching that level once. Following that rule strictly, you get just one opportunity to decrease level adjustment (by 1) at that level. It's not an "all you can reduce" buffet.

Not as far as I can tell by looking at UA. When decreasing your LA you do become 2nd level after all. So now you "just" have to acquire your extra template before becoming lvl 3.
Hmm... I guess that crafting feats could be useful to prevent leveling up as well.

[2xMachina]

There's always level drain too, if you need to delevel.

[TheGeckoKing]

So what you're suggesting is that you start off with an LA+1 template, and once you gain 6000XP, you buy it off for 3000XP. I get that. But once that happens, when you gain another 3000XP to buy off another template, your 6000XP means you gain a 4th character level and you gotta wait until 6th to do it again.
Because the rule says you have to pay up as soon as you're eligible, slapping on the template before you gain 6000XP (and level up) means you're going to end up paying enough XP to de-level you to level 2. I guess if you play it just right i.e. gain 5950ishXP, and then apply a template and buy it off, then all you gotta do is go mug a level appropriate monster and you're back to level 3.
This all hinges on one thing, though. If there is a rule saying you don't have to level up once you gain the required XP unless you want to, then I will gladly eat my hat. It's made of red Liquorice :smallsmile:.
Oh, and I mean a stated rule, not "It doesn't say I can't...".

Also, another point:

Each time a character's level adjustment is eligible to be reduced, the character may pay an XP cost to take advantage of the reduction.

This suggests the buy-off is made at fixed points, rather than if it said something like "Once the character reaches the minimum level required......", which would suggest you could go buy-off crazy once you met a certain point.

Just a few of my thoughts on it.