Prestige classes with their own spell chart?

[Venger]

I'm playing a chameleon and I don't think their spellcasting can be progressed after level 10.

I was thinking of taking human paragon after lvl 15, but I wanted a 1 lvl dip in a prestige class that gave spells so that I'd be able to enjoy the 2/3 casting that human paragon gives.

the only ones I have been able to think of thus far are vigilante (gives no spells bard doesn't and is too feat-heavy) and assassin (which is kind of meh but it is nice that they're keyed off of int)

are there any other prestige classes that have this and are good for a 1 lvl dip? All that's vital is spellcasting, but if there are other abilities they don't hurt.

[RelentlessImp]

Other classes with their own spell progression list:

Trapsmith (Dungeonscape); 1st-4th, unique list, many Sor/Wiz spells found at lower levels here.
Suel Archanamach (CArc); 1st-5th, Abjuration, Divination, Illusion and Transmutation only, Sor/Wiz list.
Sublime Chord (CArc); 4th-9th, Sor/Wiz and Bard lists.

Those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

[Essence_of_War]

Ur-Priest (1-9)

Divine Crusader (1-9 v. limited)

[Fouredged Sword]

Becuse you are olny getting 3 levels of spellcasting, I would suggest takeing trapsmith. It fits with the other classes (rogueish skillmonkies) and allows you to pick up low spell level haste (very nice).

I would also consider takeing swiftblade rather than human paragon. dip trapsmith and then start in on swiftblade advanceing that casting. You won't get all the way though, but still I think it is likely you can sneak in at least the first three levels.

[Venger]

Other classes with their own spell progression list:

Trapsmith (Dungeonscape); 1st-4th, unique list, many Sor/Wiz spells found at lower levels here.
Suel Archanamach (CArc); 1st-5th, Abjuration, Divination, Illusion and Transmutation only, Sor/Wiz list.
Sublime Chord (CArc); 4th-9th, Sor/Wiz and Bard lists.

Those are the ones I can remember off the top of my head.

excellent! suel arcanamanch is a little too feat-heavy and my guy doesn't have bardic music, but I had forgotten about trapsmith (too many lvls of chameleon just made me see it as a spell list rather than an actual class) no feats required for entry is nice. it'll be especially nice since my dm, like most do has vetoed the extra spell trick, so I have to scrounge for scrolls and as a result don't have any trapsmith spells yet, so that's a great idea

I have a question about the caster level for the spells. (for duration, spell resistance if necessary, etc.)

let's say that I am at 16th character level (factotum 5/chameleon 10/trapsmith 1) and I cast "haste" off the trapsmith's list. how long does it last? it is 1 round/lvl, but does that mean twenty levels because of chameleon or one level because of trapsmith or is there a different answer?

[Venger]

Becuse you are olny getting 3 levels of spellcasting, I would suggest takeing trapsmith. It fits with the other classes (rogueish skillmonkies) and allows you to pick up low spell level haste (very nice).

I would also consider takeing swiftblade rather than human paragon. dip trapsmith and then start in on swiftblade advanceing that casting. You won't get all the way though, but still I think it is likely you can sneak in at least the first three levels.

okay, I'll definitely give swiftblade a look, what book is it in? I don't know that class.

[Venger]

Ur-Priest (1-9)

Divine Crusader (1-9 v. limited)

I'd love to take levels in ur-priest, but I don't have the feats to burn and it'd require I give up my divine focus from chameleon, which I don't feel is worth it since the ur-priest's list is just the cleric's while the chameleons' is cleric+, especially if it's only 5 levels of ur-priest in exchange for 10 levels of chameleon. factotum5/urpriest 10 is a build that I'm hungry to try in a game though, I hadn't thought of it before.

divine crusader would wreak unreasonable amounts of havoc (in the good way, naturally) if I didn't have to dump cha in order to maintain a decent int and wis

what is the rules legality of taking levels in ur-priest and then later going into a divine casting PrC/base class (ur-priest then chameleon for example since you have some of the prereqs down already) I know you have to forsake all divine casting when you enter the class, but it doesn't say it precludes it later on.

[Mr.Bookworm]

okay, I'll definitely give swiftblade a look, what book is it in? I don't know that class.

It's online. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)

[Urpriest]

let's say that I am at 16th character level (factotum 5/chameleon 10/trapsmith 1) and I cast "haste" off the trapsmith's list. how long does it last? it is 1 round/lvl, but does that mean twenty levels because of chameleon or one level because of trapsmith or is there a different answer?

Chameleon doesn't add to your caster level in other classes, IIRC, so your caster level in Trapsmith is only increased by Trapsmith levels, so unless the Trapsmith class says anything different about it it would be one.



what is the rules legality of taking levels in ur-priest and then later going into a divine casting PrC/base class (ur-priest then chameleon for example since you have some of the prereqs down already) I know you have to forsake all divine casting when you enter the class, but it doesn't say it precludes it later on.

It's listed in the prereqs, so it all depends on whether you believe that a character has to meet the prerequisites for a class after entering. Thematically you shouldn't be able to pick up a new source of divine casting, but RAW on this is highly controversial.

[hex0]

You wouldn't rather take 3 more levels of factotum for Brains over Brawn Cunning Surge?

Trapsmith/Swiftblade might be nice if you have the feats already. human paragon is usually better at the start of a build...Like if you took Factotum 2/human paragon 3. Your caster level is low for trapsmith. Take Practiced spellcaster.

There are quite a few prcs with their own list

Edit: whoops.

[Fouredged Sword]

Swiftblade is online
Linky (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)

Three levels would get you 2 levels of another spellcasting progression, +1 extra to AC and reflex and 30% concelment while hasted, Spring attack, and free quicken on haste spells.

4th level would provide your casting stat to initiative (int in this case), 10% greater concelment while hasted, and +10ft extra movement while hasted.

5th level would grant you a miss chance like effect, except for individualy targeted spells, 50% concelment while hasted, and more spellcasting progression.

I think you can likely squeeze 3 levels in.

The 9th level ability is great though. You can take an extra standard action or move action while hasted. This is very very powerful.

[Venger]

Chameleon doesn't add to your caster level in other classes, IIRC, so your caster level in Trapsmith is only increased by Trapsmith levels, so unless the Trapsmith class says anything different about it it would be one.



It's listed in the prereqs, so it all depends on whether you believe that a character has to meet the prerequisites for a class after entering. Thematically you shouldn't be able to pick up a new source of divine casting, but RAW on this is highly controversial.

I love your username, if anyone knows the answer to this, it's you.

That's what I thought, but it doesn't really say in the chameleon entry. So at trapsmith 1, the CL would be 1? that's sort of problematic for things like "haste"

Well, I would generally think no, since they are prerequisites rather than postrequisites.

I agree that flavourwise it's kind of cheesy, and I didn't ask so I could use it, more out of curiosity for the hypothetical, which is half the fun with charop sometimes.

I guess it all hinges on your interpretation of the phrase "forever forsaken" and whether you apply it to the divine magic you have at the time you enter the class or to all the divine magic one can ever have, I could see it being validly interpreted either way, although since ur-priest is usually taken to completion towards the end of a build, it is seldom an issue

[Urpriest]

That's what I thought, but it doesn't really say in the chameleon entry. So at trapsmith 1, the CL would be 1? that's sort of problematic for things like "haste"


Well given all the Chameleon casting, you're really just using Trapsmith as a Scroll factory so you can fill your spellbook with cool Trapsmith spells. Plus, as others have said, Practiced Spellcaster.

[Andorax]

Nar Demonbinder (Unapproachable East) is another odd class that has an above-1st starting progression (4-8).

[Fouredged Sword]

Another fix would be to dip spellthief before chameleon and take master spellthief. This would set your arcane spellcaster level all = to eachother and give both chameleon and trapsmith a boost. Pick up some level 1 pearls of power or make a continuous wand of haste as a level 1 spell (craft wand can be aquired as your chameleon floating feat).

Practiced spellcaster is also an option, and can be taken situationaly as your chameleon floating feat (is there no end to the uses?)

Though if you have haste made a swift action by swiftblade, you don't really need to worry about the caster level, becuse if combat continues, just recast it.

[Venger]

You wouldnt rather take 3 more levels of factotum for Brains over Brawn?

Trapsmith/Swiftblade might be nice if you have the feats already. human paragon is usually better at the start of a build...Like if you took Factotum 2/human paragon 3. Your caster level is low for trapsmith. Take Practiced spellcaster.

There are quite a few prcs with their own list

Brains over Brawn (Int to Str and Dex checks) comes at 2nd lvl, so I already have it. Are you thinking of cunning surge? (3 insp points for extra standard action)

If that's what you mean, I know that's the most optimised, but in the game I'm in, combat is not difficult enough to warrant it and I step on enough toes as it is by my virtue of existing, I don't want to hurt the fighter, rogue, and wizards' feelings any more than I already do. besides, I took feats other than "font of inspiration" (I did take it 1 time) so my inspiration is at 5, where it'll stay, so I wouldn't get much use out of CS anyway

I would've taken human paragon 3/factotum 2, but I just couldn't bring myself to "waste" those 2 lvls of spellcasting paragon gives. plus I really wanted opportunistic piety and more inspiration points.

I do not have the feats for trapsmith because one of my party members is a dervish and I wouldn't want to do his shtick but better with swiftblade, it would be inconsiderate. as a result, my feats have generally been more skills oriented than melee oriented.

what I have is:

Able Learner
Font of Inspiration 1
Knowledge Devotion
Obtain Familiar
Stitched Flesh Familiar
Mentor (Craftsman)

I am at lvl 7 at the moment (DM insisted on 2 flaws, I picked Inattentive and Pathetic (Cha) which I summarily nullified with a cloak of charisma for a current score of 10)

[Venger]

Nar Demonbinder (Unapproachable East) is another odd class that has an above-1st starting progression (4-8).

Ooo, that class looks delectable. requiring 3 useless feats is a little off-putting. is it, in your opinion, worth it for the tradeoff? getting lesser planar binding as a 4th lvl spell is pretty damn cool and fiendform is crazy! I hadn't seen that one before, and can totally write it into my spellbook as a sor/wiz 5.

gonna need a cha of at least 16 to use all the spells which might be problematic, but the chameleon's +6 ability boon should take care of that if he's feeling in a demonbinding mood that day.

Is it worth it to get a "belt of magnificence" for this character? the +2 is 20k, which saves 4k, the +4 is 100k, which costs an extra 4k (lolnope) and the +6 is 200k, which saves 16k. this build, regardless of which direction it goes in, appears to be a little MAD, since he already needs high int and wis and if this is the case too, high cha

[Fouredged Sword]

I would consider at least a +2 belt. Other than that I would suggest you not bother. Another concept is to invest in use items like continuous wands (one of each stat boosting spell) for when you need the stat boost, but saveing money.

[Daftendirekt]

I'll just copypasta the list my DM made for me a long time ago in a facebook message when I asked him this same question:

"Here is a comprehensive list of all of the prestige classes that have their own spell list, but do not require any sort of caster level or spell-level casting. Keep in mind I only searched the hardcover books I own as I cannot be bothered to scroll through PDFs.

Book of Exalted Deeds: Apostle of Peace, Beloved of Valarian, Champion of Gwynharwyf, Emissary of Barachiel, Slayer of Domiel, Vassal of Bahamut

Draconomicon: Hoardstealer

Complete Divine: Consecrated Harrier, Holy Liberator, Divine Crusader, Pious Templar, Temple Raider of Olidammara, Ur-Priest

Complete Adventurer: Vigilante

Complete Arcane: Suel Arcanamach

Complete Warrior: Hunter of the Dead

Frostburn: Disciple of Thrym

Unapproachable East: Nentyar Hyunter, Runescarred Berserker, Telflammar Shadowlord, Thayan Slaver

Races of Destiny: Chameleon

Dungeon Master's Guide: Assassin, Blackguard

Expanded Psionics Handbook: Fist of Zuoken, Warmind"

[Venger]

Another fix would be to dip spellthief before chameleon and take master spellthief. This would set your arcane spellcaster level all = to eachother and give both chameleon and trapsmith a boost. Pick up some level 1 pearls of power or make a continuous wand of haste as a level 1 spell (craft wand can be aquired as your chameleon floating feat).

Practiced spellcaster is also an option, and can be taken situationaly as your chameleon floating feat (is there no end to the uses?)

Though if you have haste made a swift action by swiftblade, you don't really need to worry about the caster level, becuse if combat continues, just recast it.

I am afraid that ship has sailed since I have 2 chameleon levels already. From my reading of the feat, it allows spellthief lvls to stack with lvls of other arcane casting classes. does it set CLs equal to each other? if so, can you explain how this works?

Eternal wand of haste as a 1st lvl spell since it's in the book as a trapsmith list? I like the way you think. I'm making one of those as soon as I hit chameleon 3 (since it requires CL5) assuming I get haste in the book by then. chameleon free-floating feat is really great, and practiced spelcaster is definitely an option for when duration's an issue.

Spellthief always intimidated me, honestly, as it appears you have to guess with perfect accuracy the spells and abilities of every monster and enemy spellcaster you ever run into or be useless in the combat. (unless of course you could steal spells from yourself if you have levels in an arcane casting class, but that can't be rules legal)

[hex0]

I'm playing a chameleon and I don't think their spellcasting can be progressed after level 10.

Actually, your spellcasting can't be progressed at all: "You can't use any abilities gained from your aptitude focus, ability boon, or mimic class feature abilities to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other option."

How far are you in this build?

Here are some examples

Factotum 5/Chameleon 10/Trapsmith 1/Swiftblade 4
Factotum 3/Human Paragon 2/Chameleon 10/Human Paragon 1/Trapsmith 1/Swiftblade 3

Heck, I even like

Human Paragon 1/Psychic Rogue 2/Human Paragon 2/Chameleon 10/Trapsmith 1/Swiftblade 4

or

Bard 4/Spellthief 1/Chameleon 10/Trapsmith 1/Swiftblade 4

Does anyone know if Chameleon gets ASF and/or a way around it? It is best to take it straight through from levels 5 to 15, but is a pit stop for spellsword worth it?

[flumphy]

It looks like you already have a good idea what you want to do this time around, but for future reference:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181091

[hex0]

I am afraid that ship has sailed since I have 2 chameleon levels already. From my reading of the feat, it allows spellthief lvls to stack with lvls of other arcane casting classes. does it set CLs equal to each other? if so, can you explain how this works?

You add your spellthief levels to other arcane caster levels for casting ALL arcane spells so...

A Bard 4/Spellthief 1/Chameleon 2 with Master Spellthief could steal spells as a 7th level Spellthief, would cast from his Bard list as a 9th level bard, cast stolen spells at caster level 9, and cast arcane Chameleon spells at caster level 9 as well.

[Fouredged Sword]

The feat reads that you stack all levels of ALL arcane casting classes to determine ALL CL's for arcane casting classes.

Chameleon, spellthief, and trapsmith are all arcane casting classes. You sun thier total levels to determine the arcane caster level for each class, increaseing the CL for all of them, and normaly makeing the CL's = one another (ther are exceptions to this).

[hex0]

The feat reads that you stack all levels of ALL arcane casting classes to determine ALL CL's for arcane casting classes.

Chameleon, spellthief, and trapsmith are all arcane casting classes. You sun thier total levels to determine the arcane caster level for each class, increaseing the CL for all of them, and normaly makeing the CL's = one another (ther are exceptions to this).

Yes Master Spellthief IS that awesome.

Does it allow you to 'store' more spell levels though? I never figured that part out...

[Fouredged Sword]

I generaly think no, but it depends if you read the "increases a spellthief's ability to steal spells" as increaseing the ability directly (and not anything else) or as increaseing the class feature by that name (increaseing the ability to store those spells)

Both of these are secondary to this use of master spellthief though, as this time it is being mainly used as a CL booster.

It would also let you use all arcane casting in light armor, and in medium armor if you have a feat to burn (or temporaraly reasign for a day)

[Andorax]

Ooo, that class looks delectable. requiring 3 useless feats is a little off-putting. is it, in your opinion, worth it for the tradeoff? getting lesser planar binding as a 4th lvl spell is pretty damn cool and fiendform is crazy! I hadn't seen that one before, and can totally write it into my spellbook as a sor/wiz 5.


Worth it isn't something I can answer for ya...I brought it up because it has one solid things going for it, as far as getting there from a Chameleon base goes...you can qualify for it with either arcane OR divine casting of 4ths.

So you can be in either focus without botching your class entry requirement (and, by some interpretations, your right to the rest of the class's features).


Plus there are very few classes that start in the 4-5th level range and go up from there...ie, picking up where Chameleon leaves off.

[Fouredged Sword]

I am not sure that Chameleon casting can be used to qualify for PRC's. I remember there being a clause in the class abilities somewhere that prevents it.

[hex0]

Eternal wand of haste as a 1st lvl spell since it's in the book as a trapsmith list? I like the way you think. I'm making one of those as soon as I hit chameleon 3 (since it requires CL5) assuming I get haste in the book by then. chameleon free-floating feat is really great, and practiced spelcaster is definitely an option for when duration's an issue.


Master Spellthief is generally better than Practiced Spellcaster in this situation (as was already laid out)...but your character is pretty much set as a Factotum 5/Chameleon 2 now, correct?

On reflection, I'd probably go for Beguiler 4/Spellthief 1 before entering Chameleon...but Factotum 5 is nice as well.

[hex0]

I am not sure that Chameleon casting can be used to qualify for PRC's. I remember there being a clause in the class abilities somewhere that prevents it.

I mentioned that before. That's why you need to get some solid caster levels BEFORE entering the PRC if you want to abuse item creation out the whazoo.

[Human Paragon 3]

Heroes of Horror has Death Delver and Corrupt Avenger, but their spell lists are awful.

Delver gives Rebuke Undead, though, and the requirements are really, really easy.

[dextercorvia]

If you use Bard (4 or 5 levels) to enter Chameleon, you can pick up Sanctum Spell and get into Sublime Chord after Chameleon.

[Venger]

You add your spellthief levels to other arcane caster levels for casting ALL arcane spells so...

A Bard 4/Spellthief 1/Chameleon 2 with Master Spellthief could steal spells as a 7th level Spellthief, would cast from his Bard list as a 9th level bard, cast stolen spells at caster level 9, and cast arcane Chameleon spells at caster level 9 as well.



The feat reads that you stack all levels of ALL arcane casting classes to determine ALL CL's for arcane casting classes.

Chameleon, spellthief, and trapsmith are all arcane casting classes. You sun thier total levels to determine the arcane caster level for each class, increaseing the CL for all of them, and normaly makeing the CL's = one another (ther are exceptions to this).

wow! Okay, I wasn't sure about this since chameleon has that addendum about its foci being like arcane spellcasting but not really and since I can't qualify for arcane casting PrCs with them, I thought they might not stack with arcane caster lvls either.


I generaly think no, but it depends if you read the "increases a spellthief's ability to steal spells" as increaseing the ability directly (and not anything else) or as increaseing the class feature by that name (increaseing the ability to store those spells)

Both of these are secondary to this use of master spellthief though, as this time it is being mainly used as a CL booster.

It would also let you use all arcane casting in light armor, and in medium armor if you have a feat to burn (or temporaraly reasign for a day)

okay, that is what my misunderstanding was. I thought I would have to take multiple levels of spellthief to fully enjoy the benefits, but if just one will suffice, I understand where you're coming from.


Master Spellthief is generally better than Practiced Spellcaster in this situation (as was already laid out)...but your character is pretty much set as a Factotum 5/Chameleon 2 now, correct?

On reflection, I'd probably go for Beguiler 4/Spellthief 1 before entering Chameleon...but Factotum 5 is nice as well.
yes, he is set at that point, that's where the party is xpwise right now.

that's very interesting. if I were using beguiler as the base, I think I'd go beguiler 4/rainbow servant 1/chameleon 6/ rainbow servant 10 to get the cleric list spontaneously in addition to chameleon's divine prepared slots. for maximum lulz, play as a beguiler from shining south and cast "chameleon" every so often to be a beguiler beguiler chameleon chameleon (rainbow servant fits the theme too, seeing as how beguilers have natural camouflage due to their magic fur or something)

[Venger]

It looks like you already have a good idea what you want to do this time around, but for future reference:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181091

great list! thank you very much

[Venger]

Actually, your spellcasting can't be progressed at all: "You can't use any abilities gained from your aptitude focus, ability boon, or mimic class feature abilities to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other option."

How far are you in this build?

Here are some examples

Factotum 5/Chameleon 10/Trapsmith 1/Swiftblade 4
Factotum 3/Human Paragon 2/Chameleon 10/Human Paragon 1/Trapsmith 1/Swiftblade 3

Heck, I even like

Human Paragon 1/Psychic Rogue 2/Human Paragon 2/Chameleon 10/Trapsmith 1/Swiftblade 4

or

Bard 4/Spellthief 1/Chameleon 10/Trapsmith 1/Swiftblade 4

Does anyone know if Chameleon gets ASF and/or a way around it? It is best to take it straight through from levels 5 to 15, but is a pit stop for spellsword worth it?

I like those builds you've detailed:

At the moment in my game, I am at:

Factotum 5/ Chameleon 2

and I think that I would like to play chameleon straight through so I can get my spells ASAP.

Chameleons do indeed suffer from ASF. the reason people think they don't is that darn picture of the lady in heavy armor casting a spell that they put beside the class entry in RoD. I figured I'd just get "twilight" enhancement on my mithril chainshirt once I have some money, since 10%-10%=0%

While I've heard Spellsword recommended for this build, pretty much the only book my DM won't allow is Tome of Battle.

[hex0]

If you use Bard (4 or 5 levels) to enter Chameleon, you can pick up Sanctum Spell and get into Sublime Chord after Chameleon.

You'd need 3rd level spells from another source to qualify for Sublime Chord though, or 7 levels of bard. bard 7/Chameleon 10/SC 3 isn't that hot.

[hex0]

While I've heard Spellsword recommended for this build, pretty much the only book my DM won't allow is Tome of Battle.

Spellsword is in Complete Warrior, actually.

So you 100% can't change your build?

If you can't, I'd still go for Factotum 5/Chameleon 10/Trapsmith 1/Swiftblade 4

Twilight Mithril chain is still swanky though. Or if you want to be a Cleric for a day you could whip out your heavier stuff. SO many options!

[hex0]

If you whip out Dragon Compendium you'll find the Factotum's grandfather: The Savant (base class). Probably weaker, but it does get 'real' spells.

[dextercorvia]

You'd need 3rd level spells from another source to qualify for Sublime Chord though, or 7 levels of bard. bard 7/Chameleon 10/SC 3 isn't that hot.

That is why I mentioned Sanctum Spell. That lets you cast your bard spells as 3rd level in your sanctum, which will get you into Sublime Chord with only the 4 levels of Bard in addition to your Chameleon10.

[hex0]

That is why I mentioned Sanctum Spell. That lets you cast your bard spells as 3rd level in your sanctum, which will get you into Sublime Chord with only the 4 levels of Bard in addition to your Chameleon10.

You lost PRC abilities if you can't meet the requirements for it, though. So you only qualify for Sublime Chord while in your sanctum casting the modified spell with Bard 5. Plus most the required skills for SC aren't Chameleon skills...

[sreservoir]

You lost PRC abilities if you can't meet the requirements for it, though. So you only qualify for Sublime Chord while in your sanctum casting the modified spell with Bard 5. Plus most the required skills for SC aren't Chameleon skills...

once you get into SC, you're fine, because then you have 4ths outside your sanctum, and 2nds in your sanctum to use as 3rds.

[Venger]

Spellsword is in Complete Warrior, actually.

So you 100% can't change your build?

If you can't, I'd still go for Factotum 5/Chameleon 10/Trapsmith 1/Swiftblade 4

Twilight Mithril chain is still swanky though. Or if you want to be a Cleric for a day you could whip out your heavier stuff. SO many options!

whoops! I confused it with swordsage, which is in the tome of battle.

Hmm. This is pretty awesome, actually. 2 levels in this gives -10%ASF and a free fighter/metamagic feat, which is pretty sexy. Unfortunately, by lvl 16, I think I probably will have caved and gotten a twilight enhancement on my chain shirt, but a 2k loss at that lvl shouldn't be anything to cry about.

versatility's my guy's middle name.

so many fun choices. what to combine this with? fatemaker? exemplar? endless possibilities are endless

[dextercorvia]

once you get into SC, you're fine, because then you have 4ths outside your sanctum, and 2nds in your sanctum to use as 3rds.

Thanks. That is correct.

[hex0]

once you get into SC, you're fine, because then you have 4ths outside your sanctum, and 2nds in your sanctum to use as 3rds.

No offense, but the Sanctum Spell and Precocious Apprentice shenanigans seem very cheap to me. When I seem 'requires third level spells' I take that as 'third level spells consistently' and not 'essentially third level spells cast while sitting on my fancy sanctified easy chair'. No DM I've played with would let this fly...Either way, Sanctum is a crappy feat for PCs.

Also, the poster has already said that he is Factotum 5/Chameleon 2 and can't change that. SC is great in a lot of builds but it requires a lot of skills (skills that aren't class skills for Chameleon, I'll mention again) and a level of Bard.

Factotum 5/Chameleon 10 is fun to begin with. You can use the Factotum's caster level to qualify for item creation feats too during down time. There is a lot of neat options at the end of the build, as I and others suggested.

Master Spellthief exploits should be strongly considered for one of them. Having a higher caster level than your level is always in fashion.

Factotum 5/Chameleon 10/Spellthief 1/Trapsmith (or Suel Arcanamach) 1 will qualify you take Master Spellthief as your 18th level feat. Swiftblade is a nice choice after that.

[hex0]

versatility's my guy's middle name.

so many fun choices. what to combine this with? fatemaker? exemplar? endless possibilities are endless

Fortune's Friend would be cute, too. You are versatile and lucky. Not the greatest class, but hey.

[Venger]

the more I look at it, the better nar demonbinder looks. after checking unapproachable feats, only iron will and SF(conj) are needed, not GSF(conj).

while it does cast off cha, my dump stat, I'm sure in 9 lvls, I can boost it to a 17, especially since most of them don't require a save/CL check.

one thing I'm a little hazy on since it's kind of confusing to know what prcs chameleons qualify for:

assuming I get the feats, will he meet "Spellcasting: Able to cast 4th-level arcane or divine spells,
knowledge of at least one summon monster spell."

or not? it's hard to remember what the foci apply to or not

a 1 lvl dip for the spells and then a transition to something that gives front-loaded full casting without any more feat prereqs will do nicely. it's kind of them to throw in a free demon familiar, because one can never have too many

[Urpriest]

the more I look at it, the better nar demonbinder looks. after checking unapproachable feats, only iron will and SF(conj) are needed, not GSF(conj).

while it does cast off cha, my dump stat, I'm sure in 9 lvls, I can boost it to a 17, especially since most of them don't require a save/CL check.

one thing I'm a little hazy on since it's kind of confusing to know what prcs chameleons qualify for:

assuming I get the feats, will he meet "Spellcasting: Able to cast 4th-level arcane or divine spells,
knowledge of at least one summon monster spell."

or not? it's hard to remember what the foci apply to or not

a 1 lvl dip for the spells and then a transition to something that gives front-loaded full casting without any more feat prereqs will do nicely. it's kind of them to throw in a free demon familiar, because one can never have too many

The one thing the foci absolutely clearly do not let you qualify for are prerequisites for feats and Prestige Classes, so no, you can't use your Chameleon casting to enter Nar Demonbinder.

[hex0]

The one thing the foci absolutely clearly do not let you qualify for are prerequisites for feats and Prestige Classes, so no, you can't use your Chameleon casting to enter Nar Demonbinder.

Correct. You could get a few Suel Arcanamack levels maybe.

Id still go for Factotum 5/Chameleon 10/Spellthief 1/Trapsmith1/Swiftblade 3

or something similar. Factotum 5/Chameleon 10/Factotum 3/whatever 2