So, I'm making this Focused Specialist wiz

[Dazed&Confused]

Ok, my group has 3 people already, barbarian/fighter/generalist wizard. I could make a cleric, but I want a damn wizard; so I thought, if I can't heal, I'll prevent damage. That way I'm gonna choose a school in which I'll "focus specialize", since losing schools isn't that bad because of the other wizard who is a generalist, and since I'll need lots of spells to effectively control ****.

However, as you can probably see, we also lack a party face; and I can only think of enchanters to fill that role, with the social proficiency class feature(from UA) and stuff. The problem is, Enchantment is the first school any specialist drops, except for - erm - enchanters. Which isn't so pleasant to me :smallbiggrin:

So, here's my question: is there any other way of being a mage who is an actually effective party face (the flavor is important to me; just casting spells to get high "talking" skills won't do it >.<) while also being a hell of a controller? How? We're at level 7, races allowed are from the PHB only(and its variations, like Sun Elf, besides the good old two outsiders who almost go human - Aasimar and Tiefling), and no dragon magazine.

Also, just taking this spot to ask a question, if I get a charmed creature to come fight alongside the group... is the bitch gonna get our xp from battles? That would suck.

[Flickerdart]

Beguilers are both very effective face-men and battlefield controllers. Not a wizard, but a mage!

Since you already have a generalist in the party, you can be a bit more liberal with what you ban. Evocation and Necromancy are easy drops, and if you can convince him to grab its good spells, Abjuration is dispensable too.

[Stallion]

You could be a conjurerer, grab Arcane Disciple: Healing Domain, and do both.

[Big Fau]

Changeling Racial Sub levels for Wizard. You become an Illusionist/Transmuter with the same spells/day as a Focused Specialist, and can use your racial benefits to mimic being the party's face (along with everyone else's). A lot of that is just good RP instead of Bluff/Diplomacy rolls, and the Sub Levels even give more class skills. A level dip into Factotum and eventually Unseen Seer will do wonders.


Ban Enchantment, Necromancy, and Evocation. Utilize Abjuration, Transmutation, and Divination to protect the party, and then you have Conjuration for emergencies. Go Factotum 1/Wizard X/Keeper of the Cerulean Sign 2/Unseen Seer Y, or Wizard 3/Master Specialist 4/Recaster 5/War Weaver 5/Archmage 3 and just buff the party into obscenity.

[Dazed&Confused]

Beguilers are both very effective face-men and battlefield controllers. Not a wizard, but a mage!

Since you already have a generalist in the party, you can be a bit more liberal with what you ban. Evocation and Necromancy are easy drops, and if you can convince him to grab its good spells, Abjuration is dispensable too.

I don't like beguilers, don't ask me why. If I like backstabbing-treacherous enchanters(the group ranges from neutral to evil), I should love beguilers, but I don't. :S

I was thinking about dropping abj/evoc/illusion, since I don't know how I'd be able to control undead without it. Conjuration might have ways of helping me with that though, I should look into it.


You could be a conjurerer, grab Arcane Disciple: Healing Domain, and do both.

But then I wouldn't be that much of a party face :(

You see, I'm quite restricted here. I actually don't think it's possible to get what I want (specializing in another school, dropping enchantment, being a real party face and controlling the battlefield at the same time). This is like my last try at it :p

[Dazed&Confused]

Changeling Racial Sub levels for Wizard. You become an Illusionist/Transmuter with the same spells/day as a Focused Specialist, and can use your racial benefits to mimic being the party's face (along with everyone else's). A lot of that is just good RP instead of Bluff/Diplomacy rolls, and the Sub Levels even give more class skills. A level dip into Factotum and eventually Unseen Seer will do wonders.

I forgot saying I can't be a changeling, gotta get a race from the PHB(or any variation of those) or Aasimar/Tiefling. :(

That idea is awesome though. Since I enjoy being a party face, I'll remember that post for other campaigns. :p

[Big Fau]

I forgot saying I can't be a changeling, gotta get a race from the PHB(or any variation of those) or Aasimar/Tiefling. :(

Then use Human, and use the Unseen Seer/Keeper of the Cerulean Sign build. Be a Transmuter, it will help more in the long run. Oh, and take Keeper levels before you enter Unseen Seer, as they will help you meet prerequisites. And grab Hunter's Eye (PH2) from Unseen Seer's advanced learning ability, so you can get Sneak Attack.


On the bright side, you get access to Able Learner. Which means you'll have the skills needed to be a face for the first 6-ish levels, afterwards letting US and KotCS do the job.

[Dazed&Confused]

Then use Human, and use the Unseen Seer/Keeper of the Cerulean Sign build. Be a Transmuter, it will help more in the long run. Oh, and take Keeper levels before you enter Unseen Seer, as they will help you meet prerequisites. And grab Hunter's Eye (PH2) from Unseen Seer's advanced learning ability, so you can get Sneak Attack.


On the bright side, you get access to Able Learner. Which means you'll have the skills needed to be a face for the first 6-ish levels, afterwards letting US and KotCS do the job.

Yea, I'll look into it. Downloading the book atm, never read it.

What do you mean by helping more in the long run? I mean, isn't conjuration better for controlling? I don't know all the spells in transmutation, but they do seem to me as way more like buffing/single target save or die, especially in early-mid levels.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Illumian (Vaulkrau) Beguiler 1/ Wizard 4/ Ultimate Magus, with Able Learner. You'll need two flaws, to get Versatile Spellcaster, Practiced Spellcaster: Beguiler, and any metamagic feat all by 5th level. I'd use Martial Wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard) to get Improved Initiative instead of Scribe Scroll. With Practiced Spellcaster: Beguiler and Krau, you can apply 10/10 UM spellcasting toward Wizard, and at 15th level have 14th level Wizard casting and 8th level Beguiler spellcasting. Versatile Spellcaster allows you to spend two spell slots of the same level to cast any spell you know of one level higher, so you can spend Beguiler spell slots to spontaneously cast Wizard spells you've learned. This also gives you early knowledge of the next higher level of the Beguiler spell list, so you can use Versatile Spellcaster to cast those as well.

This gives you enough Enchantment spells and Cha-based skills, plus the Vaul bonus, to be a party face. You can also fill the role of a trapmonkey, which the party is also lacking at the moment. After UM 10 get one level of Mindbender to pick up Mindsight, and then whatever else you'd want.

Edit: You can assist the other Wizard in the party in making scrolls of any Beguiler spells you can cast, so he can copy them into his book. The two of you can copy spells from each others' spellbooks, so communicate whenever you level up to always pick different spells and then share them.

[Big Fau]

Yea, I'll look into it. Downloading the book atm, never read it.

What do you mean by helping more in the long run? I mean, isn't conjuration better for controlling? I don't know all the spells in transmutation, but they do seem to me as way more like buffing/single target save or die, especially in early-mid levels.

It [Conjuration] is, but you don't have to specialize in it. Transmuters are actually buffers, and their buffs are insanely powerful. You just pick one of the other players at the table, and then turn them into a Hydra or something and let them go to town.


You buff the Barbarian, then use Conjuration/Illusion to lock the battlefield down. Doing this prevents a lot of damage the party would take, making it easier to heal everyone.


That's where Factotum/Unseen Seer/KotCS come into play: They have Use Magic Device, making it easy to heal the party post-combat. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8965)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If you can use Dragon Compendium, you could pick up Spell Focus: Transmutation to get the feat Ability Enhancer, which increases any Enhancement bonus to an ability score from a spell you cast by +2. Your Bull's Strength would give +6, or you could cast Animalistic Power (PH2) to grant +4 to Str, Dex, and Con. Transmuter is actually a pretty decent choice, you'll have lots of Enlarge Person, ability score buffs, Rope Trick, Haste, and later on Greater Magic Weapon for buffs, and Slow and Shrink Item shenanigans. Get the other Wizard to crowd control, and you can buff the Barbarian and Fighter and they'll always make sure your character survives.

A Bard can actually make a decent battlefield controller and buffer with Glitterdust, Confusion, Haste, ability score buffs, and various illusions, plus a natural party face, you could use wands of cure light wounds to heal the party between encounters, and Inspire Courage is surprisingly easy to optimize.

[Dazed&Confused]

Big Fau's suggestion was very good and I'm probably going to take it. Unless someone else shows me an "earlier" or "easier" option... KotCS is indeed very good, but has some serious problems that I dislike a lot; I was willing to take the Otherwordly feat so I can use Alter Self in a much better way, plus the minor benefits would please my char(Darkvision, plus a +2 Diplomacy). The thing is KotCS will come kind of late (I'll have only one level, since I'm in the 7th atm), which won't make me much of a party face at all due to the lack of points to spend, and it needs 2 talents that I regard as almost useless, leaving me with 1 or 2 talents... Which could keep me from using Otherworldly. And Otherworldly has so much flavor and utility in that level :/

But I'm still probably gonna take it because Enchantment is supposed to be dropped, not focused, lol. However, I'll keep having a real close look in the books I have atm, and if I find another way by myself I'll post it here. If someone shows another option, it will be much appreciated. Really, I may be an agnostic, but I'll surely pray for you on next Sunday. :smallbiggrin:

[Dazed&Confused]

Just to finish this thread already, maybe someone will look for the same thing on google and find it. I found a good class with REALLY easy requirements that has: medium BAB, full progression, the talking skills I wanted so much(no Bluff/Intimidade though), 4+int skill points per level, high reflexes and will, and, as if it wasn't enough already, d6 for hit points. It's the Ruathar, from Races of the Wild, with 3 levels only.

The flavor in the class is actually really nice. Being a hero of a group of elves (which could be any race of elves really, so maybe you can be a hero of the drow to get to be an evil hero, lol...)+ Arvandor's grace is really awesome(it doubles your lifespan; quite useless for fights, but damn, thinking of a long-long-long-lived wizard is nice, even elves can double their lifespan! Thousand-years old elven archmages ftw).

Planning on a 3 Conjurer/2 Master Specialist/1 Ruathar/1 Paragnostic Apostle so far. At 8th level, Master(focus...), then another Ruathar or Paragnostic(1 level for this one would be more than enough, but I like the class :\). Probably leaving the other Ruathar level for later, when I have inherent bonuses in int to bump more the social skills, although I don't think it will be needed with so many spells to help me bump them at that point. It's looking nice since I'll get to be kind of a powerhouse - knowledgeable(lore from Paragnostic+all knowledge skills), strong(conjuration ftw), a good party face(skills from Ruathar), and with nice stuff to feed the background. Let's see how it goes.

Thanks for the help whoever helped!