Iaijutsu Focus in 3.5?

[noparlpf]

Has anybody used Iaijutsu Focus (Oriental Adventures) in 3.5? How did it work for you? Any suggestions for using it or not using it?

[Greenish]

It's a staple factotum trick, usually combined with Gnomish Quickrazors and some method of flat footing the opponent.

There's also synergy with ToB, since several maneuvers render the target flat footed.

[Flickerdart]

Has anybody used Iaijutsu Focus (Oriental Adventures) in 3.5? How did it work for you? Any suggestions for using it or not using it?
It's a Factotum's go-to for doing any sort of decent damage. Human paragons can take advantage of it too.

It has some pretty stiff requirements (flatfooted + melee weapon) meaning you need to do some work to meet the conditions. EWP Quickrazor is pretty much a must, although you could also work with Bloodstorm Blade.

[DeAnno]

Is there anything that prevents other classes from taking cross class ranks in it and just pumping their check in other ways? I've never seen it done, but I can't see why not.

[Flickerdart]

Is there anything that prevents other classes from taking cross class ranks in it and just pumping their check in other ways? I've never seen it done, but I can't see why not.
Nothing at all. It's just not worth it - the DC to hit for max damage is pretty damn high, and even then it's only +9d6.

[mootoall]

It's a Factotum's go-to for doing any sort of decent damage. Human paragons can take advantage of it too.

It has some pretty stiff requirements (flatfooted + melee weapon) meaning you need to do some work to meet the conditions. EWP Quickrazor is pretty much a must, although you could also work with Bloodstorm Blade.

Eh, Factotums are better UMD-ers or trippers than they are damage dealers, even with the nice bonus damage dice from IF.

That said, it's very popular with Factotums because they're one of the few 3.5 classes that can actually pull it off. With the spellcasting to make others flat-footed, actually having the skill as a class skill, and being able to weild Gnomish Quickrazors, if they're a gnome, they're a rare combination that makes it a perfect strategy for them.

[Flickerdart]

Eh, Factotums are better UMD-ers or trippers than they are damage dealers, even with the nice bonus damage dice from IF.
Yeah, you're not going to be using it as your only trick, but it's practically free for you, what with your ludicrous skill points, so why not use it when you can?

[Greenish]

Eh, Factotums are better UMD-ers or trippers than they are damage dealers, even with the nice bonus damage dice from IF.If you think "hey, I've got lots of tricks, I don't really need another", you're spitting on the face of everything factotums stand for! :smalltongue:

[Safety Sword]

If you think "hey, I've got lots of tricks, I don't really need another", you're spitting on the face of everything factotums stand for! :smalltongue:

Spitting in the faces of factotums has always served me well in the past. If you do it right you can blind them and sneak attack :smallamused:

[mootoall]

If you think "hey, I've got lots of tricks, I don't really need another", you're spitting on the face of everything factotums stand for! :smalltongue:

*Is deeply ashamed* :smalltongue:

[noparlpf]

So Factotum and Gnomish quickrazor are the general consensus from the Playground? (As for ToB, I don't personally like ToB, and we don't really use it.)

The build I was working on that involves Iaijutsu focus is ECL 6, using Expert 1/Kensai 5 (Expert is the generic class from UA, Kensai is a Fighter variant from Dragon Magazine #310). Flexible Mind (a feat from another magazine) lets Iaijutsu Focus be treated as a class skill when I go into Kensai and gives a +1 bonus.
So Expert 1/Kensai 5:
Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +3, BaB +5, HP 6+5d10+(6xCon)
Class skills for Expert: Hide, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, Autohypnosis, Iaijutsu Focus, Bluff, Balance, Tumble, Jump, Escape Artist, Concentration, Diplomacy, Craft, Profession
Class skills for Kensai: Balance, Tumble, Jump, Climb, Swim, Concentration, Craft, Iaijutsu Focus, Autohypnosis
Chosen Weapon: Eagle's Claw (1d6, 18-20 x2, slashing and piercing)
(Chosen Weapon is the Kensai's 1st-level class feature, granting proficiency with any one martial or exotic weapon and giving a +1 to attack and damage when using that weapon. This increases by +1 at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels.)
Sneak Attack +2d6 (generic feat)
Flexible Mind: Iaijutsu Focus, Autohypnosis (because autohypnosis fits the "focused warrior" type better than concentration...I don't get why the Kensai gets concentration as a class skill)
Weapon Finesse
Quick Draw
Flick of the Wrist (quick-draw and treat foe as flat-footed, works once per opponent per combat)
Telling Blow (sneak attack on a critical hit)
Imp. Critical: Eagle's Claw
Two-Weapon Fighting
Skill Focus: Iaijutsu Focus
Skill Trick: Hidden Blade (quick-draw and treat foe as flat-footed, works once per combat)
(Cold-Blooded, Code of Arms as flaws)

Iaijutsu Focus modifier: +29, so minimum +5d6, and on average +6d6 damage at 6th level.

I realise that the build could be "better" and that I'm using a few "weak" feats, but it's a relatively casual group and I don't want to break any games. The "weak" feats are more or less free due to flaws anyhow. Sure, Iaijutsu Focus will probably only work two or three times per encounter (depends on how crappy my initiative rolls turn out; I always roll low for initiative), and other builds would work better (like the questionably legal Kobold Sorcerer 6 casting as a 10th-level Wizard), but I want to go for something like this. And the Factotum isn't really my type of class.

[mootoall]

Looks fine to me. Though only being able to use it reliably 2/encounter still makes it inferior to a Factotum with a wand of grease.

Edit: Though I'd still use the Gnomish Quickrazor as your weapon of choice, otherwise it's even more difficult to activate properly.

[Greenish]

Generic classes weren't really intended to be used alongside normal ones, but if your DM is aware of that and lets it fly, no problem.

If your Cha is any decent, you could look into entering Iaijutsu Master for the 5th level ability. Requires quite a few feats though.

[Edit]:
Though I'd still use the Gnomish Quickrazor as your weapon of choice, otherwise it's even more difficult to activate properly.If he was just looking to use it once or twice, just having another weapon should work well enough.

[sreservoir]

anything with ways to get it as a class skill can pull it off, and exotic weapon proficiencies. I'm quite fond of binder with either a human paragon dip or skill knowledge, binding the triad for proficiency, and stacking loads of cheap braid blades on top of it, but a master of masks should be capable of the same. but then add malphas or andromalius. it is fun rolling handsfull of dice, though it can be a bit boring for others.

[hex0]

The build I was working on that involves Iaijutsu focus is ECL 6, using Expert 1/Kensai 5 (Expert is the generic class from UA, Kensai is a Fighter variant from Dragon Magazine #310). Flexible Mind (a feat from another magazine) lets Iaijutsu Focus be treated as a class skill when I go into Kensai and gives a +1 bonus.
.

Expert!? Trade that for human parag and youll keep iajutsu focus without burnin a feat

[faceroll]

Looks fine to me. Though only being able to use it reliably 2/encounter still makes it inferior to a Factotum with a wand of grease.

A wand of Grease is rather expensive in either actions, gp, or both. As long as you're going to rely on items, why not just just wraithstrike on a barbarian.

[noparlpf]

Looks fine to me. Though only being able to use it reliably 2/encounter still makes it inferior to a Factotum with a wand of grease.

Edit: Though I'd still use the Gnomish Quickrazor as your weapon of choice, otherwise it's even more difficult to activate properly.

Well, I could have put ranks into UMD, but I don't have the money to get a wand of Grease. I guess I should hope somebody in the party can trip things or something.
Oh right, and the character has something like six weapons. So sheathing and re-drawing is less of a problem. I wish I could afford Fleshgrinding weapons.
Can you use TWF and Iaijutsu Focus together? Or does it only apply to one hit out of the two?


Expert!? Trade that for human paragon and you'll keep iaijutsu focus without burning a feat.

Well, if I took Human Paragon I'd gain 2 hp, lose several skill points, and have an extra feat to spend but not get to keep autohypnosis and the +1 bonus.

[Tyndmyr]

Well, if I took Human Paragon I'd gain 2 hp, lose several skill points, and have an extra feat to spend but not get to keep autohypnosis and the +1 bonus.

From expert?

Human Paragon has whatever skills you want as class skills. So, I don't see a problem with autohypnosis. If you really regret the couple skill points, drop the feat on an additional five skill points. Now, Human Paragon is made of straight win.

[noparlpf]

From expert?

Human Paragon has whatever skills you want as class skills. So, I don't see a problem with autohypnosis. If you really regret the couple skill points, drop the feat on an additional five skill points. Now, Human Paragon is made of straight win.

Autohypnosis wouldn't be a class skill for Kensai, which I want it to be. And I'd be losing...8 skill points, which one feat can't make up.

[Cieyrin]

Half-Elves are surprisingly powerful when it comes to Iaijutsu Focus, entirely due to their Paragon class. Bonus feat for some Quick Razors, Persuasion gives them a nameless bonus to Iaijutsu and you can go into Human Paragon afterward for the Adaptive Skill, thanks to Divided Ancestry. Helf Paragon 1/Human Paragon 1/Helf Paragon +1 can work out nicely like that.

Alternatively, you can save a feat by going some variety of Gnome (Whisper being the go to despite the Cha penalty) and trade Hooked Hammer familiarity for Quick Razors (thank CW for that) and then go Factotum. Circlet of Persuasion, Admiral's Hat, etc +Cha skill items that are lurking out there.

[sreservoir]

Autohypnosis wouldn't be a class skill for Kensai, which I want it to be. And I'd be losing...8 skill points, which one feat can't make up.

apprentice is ten skill points, albeit with a nominal cost from WBL. with restrictions, though, but I'm sure some of those skills will be appealing.

[deuxhero]

It's a Factotum's go-to for doing any sort of decent damage. Human paragons can take advantage of it too.

It has some pretty stiff requirements (flatfooted + melee weapon) meaning you need to do some work to meet the conditions. EWP Quickrazor is pretty much a must, although you could also work with Bloodstorm Blade.

You only need to draw a melee weapon, not use that melee weapon :)

[Daftendirekt]

You only need to draw a melee weapon, not use that melee weapon :)

Like this build (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134276&highlight=katana+thrower), that takes full advantage of that.

[noparlpf]

apprentice is ten skill points, albeit with a nominal cost from WBL. with restrictions, though, but I'm sure some of those skills will be appealing.

Where is that?


You only need to draw a melee weapon, not use that melee weapon :)

That's exploiting a poorly-phrased section of the rules and doesn't at all fit the flavor of iaijutsu. I'm not going to go around "drawing" a quickrazor and hitting people with something else.

[Cieyrin]

apprentice is ten skill points, albeit with a nominal cost from WBL. with restrictions, though, but I'm sure some of those skills will be appealing.

Actually no.


Upon becoming an apprentice, a character immediately gains two new class skills and two bonus skill points to spend on these class skills.

Nowhere in the description does it say that you get 2 skill points per level. It's a reasonable house rule, though, that you keep getting them. The main benefit is that the skills become class skills, as well as the specific mentor benefits.

[sreservoir]

Actually no.



Nowhere in the description does it say that you get 2 skill points per level. It's a reasonable house rule, though, that you keep getting them. The main benefit is that the skills become class skills, as well as the specific mentor benefits.

huh, what do you know, I've been misreading that the whole time.