The Vanguard (3.5 E6 base class, PEACH)

[Gnorman]

THIS CLASS IS CURRENTLY DECOMMISSIONED


The Vanguard

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/5n_gallery/89986.jpg


HD: d8
Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nature), Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Ride, Spot, Swim, Tumble
Skill Points: 4 + Int per level (4x at 1st)

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Archetype, Finesse

2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|Lesser Archetype Power

3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1|Riposte

4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|Moderate Archetype Power

5th|+5|+4|+4|+1|Always On Guard

6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+2|Greater Archetype Power[/table]

Proficiencies: The vanguard is proficient with light armor and bucklers. He is also proficient with simple and one-handed martial weapons.

Finesse: The vanguard may use his Dexterity score instead of his Strength score on melee attack and damage rolls. While wearing light or no armor, and wielding a single one-handed weapon, the vanguard gains a bonus to armor class equal to his Intelligence modifier.

Archetype: At 1st level, the vanguard chooses an archetype from the list below. He gains the advantages and abilities of the archetype at the appropriate levels, as indicated in the list. Once made, this choice is final.

Lesser Archetype Power: At 2nd level, the vanguard gains the appropriate power for his archetype.

Riposte: At 3rd level, once per round as a free action, the vanguard may make one melee attack at his highest base attack bonus against an opponent that misses him with a melee attack. This free attack must be made right after the opponent misses, but the vanguard may take a free five-foot step immediately before the riposte attack if desired.

Moderate Archetype Power: At 4th level, the vanguard gains the appropriate power for his archetype.

Always On Guard: At 5th level, the vanguard gains a +4 untyped bonus to initiative and can no longer be surprised in combat or caught flat-footed. The vanguard may always act in the first round of combat.

Greater Archetype Power: At 6th level, the vanguard gains the appropriate power for his archetype.


Archetypes:

Duelist
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/compscoundrel_gallery/102074.jpg

Lesser Archetype Power: A duelist, before making attack rolls for a round, may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and increase the critical threat range of his weapon by that same number. This number may not exceed the fencer's base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on critical range apply until his next turn.
Moderate Archetype Power: Once per encounter, a duelist can designate a specific opponent as his chosen foe. The duelist gains a +2 to attack rolls and damage against the chosen foe, which increases to +4 if the chosen foe does not target him in kind or engage him in combat. The bonuses last three rounds.
Greater Archetype Power: On a successful critical hit, a duelist causes his opponent to be staggered for three rounds.


Peltast
http://780x378-1.ikiwq.com/FmAdKGODp0sBj2ViL1BaUc.jpg
Lesser Archetype Power:
Moderate Archetype Power:
Greater Archetype Power:


Pioneer
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/cw_ag/75427.jpg

Lesser Archetype Power: A pioneer gains the Skirmish ability of a Scout of the same level.
Moderate Archetype Power: A pioneer is no longer subject to attacks of opportunity when moving through an opponent's threatened area.
Greater Archetype Power: A pioneer gains Pounce.

[Gnorman]

Corsair is complete. Buccaneer specializes in fear and intimidation, fencer in causing devastating critical hits, and irregular in mobility.

[D-naras]

I dont like fencer's capstone, it seems really insignificant compared to the previews abilities. Imagine, getting a critical for 4d6+12(18 dex)+6(16 int)+2(enhancement)=32 with a greatsword, without power attacking. Adding a single point of con damage on that is irrelevant even in the short run. I suggest, increasing his critical multiplier by 1 or adding a serious debilitating effect like stuned, dazed or staggered. Otherwise nice work! Keep it up! :smallsmile:

[Gnorman]

I dont like fencer's capstone, it seems really insignificant compared to the previews abilities. Imagine, getting a critical for 4d6+12(18 dex)+6(16 int)+2(enhancement)=32 with a greatsword, without power attacking. Adding a single point of con damage on that is irrelevant even in the short run. I suggest, increasing his critical multiplier by 1 or adding a serious debilitating effect like stuned, dazed or staggered. Otherwise nice work! Keep it up! :smallsmile:

I don't get where you're getting the 12 from - the Dexterity damage isn't multiplied on a critical hit (unless I'm missing something here). It'd be more like 20, I think. Still pretty significant, though.

But I understand what you're saying. Staggered is actually a great idea - stunned or dazed I find inappropriate for the whole realism thing, but staggered, yeah, if someone just scored a real nasty skewering hit on me, I'd find it hard to take a move action and a standard action in the same round too.

[D-naras]

18 dex means +4 modifier which a fencer can use instead of strength on damage rolls. With a two-handed weapon, that is +6 damage which gets doubled on a crit.

[Gnorman]

18 dex means +4 modifier which a fencer can use instead of strength on damage rolls. With a two-handed weapon, that is +6 damage which gets doubled on a crit.

You're right, redacted. Momentary misinterpretation of critical hit rules.

Anyway, changed it up a bit, and swapped the 4th and 6th level abilities around because I think adding the extra damage is actually more powerful than the staggering (especially on a high critical multiplier weapon). I may be overestimating the fencer's damage potential though.

Any input on the buccaneer or irregular?

[Ziegander]

I hate to sound critical, but:

1) I don't think that word means what you think it means. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/corsair)

2) The class seems pretty boring overall. The class itself only does one thing, which is Riposte, and each of the archetypes do only one thing, Demoralize, Crit, or Skirmish respectively. The most interesting ability I'm seeing here is the Irregular's ability to move out of threatened squares without provoking AoOs.

Furthermore, the fencer doesn't even focus on fencing! It runs around with a Scythe all day for maximum carnage.

The Vanguard is MUCH better designed than this class, in my opinion. It gets lots of interesting class features which open up new tactical options and interact with the battlefield itself. The Corsair on the other hand, isn't a pirate, and it mostly gets class features that add x stat to y bonus or improve its melee attacks. Even as a striker I want to see class features do things other than "I hit it harder."

[Gnorman]

I hate to sound critical, but:

1) I don't think that word means what you think it means. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/corsair)

2) The class seems pretty boring overall. The class itself only does one thing, which is Riposte, and each of the archetypes do only one thing, Demoralize, Crit, or Skirmish respectively. The most interesting ability I'm seeing here is the Irregular's ability to move out of threatened squares without provoking AoOs.

Furthermore, the fencer doesn't even focus on fencing! It runs around with a Scythe all day for maximum carnage.

The Vanguard is MUCH better designed than this class, in my opinion. It gets lots of interesting class features which open up new tactical options and interact with the battlefield itself. The Corsair on the other hand, isn't a pirate, and it mostly gets class features that add x stat to y bonus or improve its melee attacks. Even as a striker I want to see class features do things other than "I hit it harder."

Don't hate sounding critical - this is an extremely valuable critique, and I'm quite thankful you've thrown it in there (given that you in particular have been a consistent and helpful sounding board for my homebrew [not to discount anyone else, but Ziegander's been with me since Malamundus])

I will take the criticisms into account and see what I can do. I am admittedly not as happy with this one as I am with the Vanguard.

As for the name itself, allow me a little bit of creative license, eh? Vanguard mostly refers to ships too. Corsair was inspired by Al Qadim - The Genie's Curse, in which it was a sort of mercenary fighter/rogue hybrid, which is what the corsair is intended to be.

[Spiryt]

I agree with previous Lady/Gentleman, Corsair is rather lousy name for such class. And lesser Fencer power favors pick over the rapier quite a lot. Next power favors high range more, but not really in sufficient way, AFAICS.

In overall, it's nice though, I like the Intelligence bonuses applcation. Kind of sad that such intelligent fighter is from definition favored to be naked bugger prancing around with rapier, but it's theme insrcibed in D&D, and there's no problem here with bringing on greataxe and heavier armor with a feat, so I don't complain. :smallwink:

[Gnorman]

I agree with previous Lady/Gentleman, Corsair is rather lousy name for such class. And lesser Fencer power favors pick over the rapier quite a lot. Next power favors high range more, but not really in sufficient way, AFAICS.

In overall, it's nice though, I like the Intelligence bonuses applcation. Kind of sad that such intelligent fighter is from definition favored to be naked bugger prancing around with rapier, but it's theme insrcibed in D&D, and there's no problem here with bringing on greataxe and heavier armor with a feat, so I don't complain. :smallwink:

Man, I don't get the corsair hate. It means a pirate, an outlaw, a lightly-armored and skillful fighter!

Which of the following names would you prefer: skirmisher, scout, guerilla, renegade, privateer, swashbuckler, duelist, musketeer, ruffian, marauder, raider, picaroon, commando, mercenary?

Actually, I kinda like commando.

[Ziegander]

How does multiclassing work in E6?

Because, even if it's as normal, I almost want to suggest swapping En Garde for "AC Bonus" and moving the ability up to 1st level to sit beside Finesse. Then, probably lose the free TWF, because in my opinion if a Corsair wants to TWF they'll take the feat. Furthermore, I'd say that with AC Bonus they add Int to AC if the wear light or no armor as an insight bonus, with an extra +1 insight to AC at 3rd and 6th level.

Phew, all of that just to open up 3rd level! But then at least you can add an interesting new feature there. I don't have any suggestions at the moment, unfortunately. There's always Parry to consider (once per round oppose a melee attack with your own melee attack roll, if your roll beats theirs the attack misses, yadda, yadda), but the whole Parry/Riposte dynamic is really a Fencer schtick.

I would also consider bumping the skill points to 6+Int and changing the weapon proficiencies to all simple and martial ranged weapons and all light simple and martial melee weapons. Because Corsairs shouldn't be running around with Scythes.

As a mercenary (which really is a fine name for the class itself), I think of underhanded tactics, professionalism, and utilitarianism. The first is easy enough to translate - Sneak Attack; the other two are harder. With Sneak Attack as a standard part of the main chassis you could alter the progression of the Irregular to something like:

Lesser Archetype Power: You no longer provoke for leaving threatened squares, yadda, yadda.

Moderate Archetype Power: If you move at least 10ft in a round you may apply your bonus Sneak Attack damage to any foe you attack, regardless of whether that foe is flat-footed or flanked, even if that foe is immune to precision damage.

Greater Archetype Power: Pounce.

[Spiryt]

Or swaggerer, roisterer, varmint, rascal, varlet....

All of them, anyway, save some like musketeer, guerilla, mercenary (too specific meaning IMO) are better than Corsair IMO.

[Ziegander]

Food for thought:


The Mercenary

HD: d8
Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (local), Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Swim, and Tumble.
Skill Points: 6 + Int per level (4x at 1st)

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+2|+2|Archetype, Finesse

2nd|+2|+0|+3|+3|Lesser Archetype Power

3rd|+3|+1|+3|+3|Sneak Attack

4th|+4|+1|+4|+4|Moderate Archetype Power

5th|+5|+1|+4|+4|Slippery Mind

6th|+6/+1|+2|+5|+5|Greater Archetype Power[/table]

Proficiencies: The mercenary is proficient with light armor and bucklers. He is also proficient with simple and martial weapons.

Finesse (Ex): The mercenary may use her Dexterity score instead of her Strength score on melee attack and damage rolls. She also adds her Intelligence modifier as an insight bonus to AC when wearing light or no armor and a further +1 insight bonus at 3rd level and at 6th level.

Archetype: At 1st level, the mercenary chooses an archetype from the list below. She gains the advantages and abilities of the archetype at the appropriate levels, as indicated in the list. Once made, this choice is final.

Lesser Archetype Power: At 2nd level, the mercenary gains the appropriate power for her archetype.

Sneak Attack (Ex): 3rd level; as Rogue, but +1d6 starting at 3rd and every odd level thereafter.

Moderate Archetype Power: At 4th level, the mercenary gains the appropriate power for her archetype.

Slippery Mind (Ex): At 5th level, at the start of her turn a mercenary may make a new saving throw against one ongoing effect or condition effecting her that allows a Will save.

Greater Archetype Power: At 6th level, the mercenary gains the appropriate power for her archetype.


Archetypes:

Irregular

Lesser Archetype Power: An irregular is no longer subject to attacks of opportunity when moving through an opponent's threatened area.
Moderate Archetype Power: As long as you move 10ft before attacking you may add your bonus Sneak Attack damage to an attack made against any creature regardless of whether the creature is flat-footed or flanked and even if it is normally immune to precision damage.
Greater Archetype Power: Pounce.

[Gnorman]

Food for thought:


The Mercenary

HD: d8
Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (local), Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Swim, and Tumble.
Skill Points: 6 + Int per level (4x at 1st)

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

1st|+1|+0|+2|+2|Archetype, Finesse

2nd|+2|+0|+3|+3|Lesser Archetype Power

3rd|+3|+1|+3|+3|Sneak Attack

4th|+4|+1|+4|+4|Moderate Archetype Power

5th|+5|+1|+4|+4|Slippery Mind

6th|+6/+1|+2|+5|+5|Greater Archetype Power[/table]

Proficiencies: The mercenary is proficient with light armor and bucklers. He is also proficient with simple and martial weapons.

Finesse (Ex): The mercenary may use her Dexterity score instead of her Strength score on melee attack and damage rolls. She also adds her Intelligence modifier as an insight bonus to AC when wearing light or no armor and a further +1 insight bonus at 3rd level and at 6th level.

Archetype: At 1st level, the mercenary chooses an archetype from the list below. She gains the advantages and abilities of the archetype at the appropriate levels, as indicated in the list. Once made, this choice is final.

Lesser Archetype Power: At 2nd level, the mercenary gains the appropriate power for her archetype.

Sneak Attack (Ex): 3rd level; as Rogue, but +1d6 starting at 3rd and every odd level thereafter.

Moderate Archetype Power: At 4th level, the mercenary gains the appropriate power for her archetype.

Slippery Mind (Ex): At 5th level, at the start of her turn a mercenary may make a new saving throw against one ongoing effect or condition effecting her that allows a Will save.

Greater Archetype Power: At 6th level, the mercenary gains the appropriate power for her archetype.


Archetypes:

Irregular

Lesser Archetype Power: An irregular is no longer subject to attacks of opportunity when moving through an opponent's threatened area.
Moderate Archetype Power: As long as you move 10ft before attacking you may add your bonus Sneak Attack damage to an attack made against any creature regardless of whether the creature is flat-footed or flanked and even if it is normally immune to precision damage.
Greater Archetype Power: Pounce.


I think that a lot of the ideas here are going to step on the toes of my planned Scoundrel class, and so I would prefer not to implement them for this one, but Pounce at least is a great idea, and I am kind of disappointed with myself for forgetting about it. Given that the corsair (yes, I am still calling it that for now) gets multiple attacks per round at 6th level, it would fit perfectly within the "mobile fighter" category.

EDIT: Um so okay I figured out a proper way for me to keep my fav-o-right names. This class will be changed to vanguard, and the vanguard to Sentinel.

[Ziegander]

I think that a lot of the ideas here are going to step on the toes of my planned Scoundrel class, and so I would prefer not to implement them for this one

That makes a lot of sense.


it would fit perfectly within the "mobile fighter" category.

[...]

EDIT: Um so okay I figured out a proper way for me to keep my fav-o-right names. This class will be changed to vanguard, and the vanguard to Sentinel.

AAHHH, I like this change. It also gives a much clearer and easier to work with flavor guide. The Vanguard is our mobile fighter, the advance infantry and scout of the full BAB crowd. In that case, if I were designing this class I'd go for a full overhaul or close to it. Dex to attacks, Int to AC, swashbucklery and piracy, all of that sounds more suited for future use with the Scoundrel class, in my opinion.

[Gnorman]

That makes a lot of sense.



AAHHH, I like this change. It also gives a much clearer and easier to work with flavor guide. The Vanguard is our mobile fighter, the advance infantry and scout of the full BAB crowd. In that case, if I were designing this class I'd go for a full overhaul or close to it. Dex to attacks, Int to AC, swashbucklery and piracy, all of that sounds more suited for future use with the Scoundrel class, in my opinion.

Changes are coming, oh yes, they are. Core class features are definitely going to be overhauled, and the only archetype I am currently happy with is the Irregular, which I think best fits the theme so far.

The ideas behind the fencer need work, but I am set on an archetype that uses critical hits to best advantage within this class.

The buccaneer/corsair will be reevaluated, retooled and possibly removed.

[Gnorman]

Fear and intimidation tactics better fit the Reaver archetype in the Zealot class, and so the Corsair archetype has been summarily dismissed.

I have overhauled the class somewhat (a few features remain the same), and gave new abilities to the Duelist (formerly fencer). The class as a whole still maintains the Dex/Int dependency, but has compressed it all into the first level, allowing me to add Always On Guard. Riposte is unchanged. The duelist now focuses on critical hits and single combat, while the pioneer focuses on mobility and reflexes.

I would love input/suggestions on a third archetype, and on the changes as they stand so far.

[Othniel Edden]

What about an archetype that harasses the enemy with thrown weaponry and then closes in for the kill by giving an ally flanking? Could gear things towards spears specifically. My other suggestion is a two weapon fighting archetype with an emphasis on defense instead of attack, maybe as an AC bonus equal to damage dealt with the main hand weapon when one hasn't attacked with their off hand weapon.

[Spiryt]

What about an archetype that harasses the enemy with thrown weaponry and then closes in for the kill by giving an ally flanking? Could gear things towards spears specifically. My other suggestion is a two weapon fighting archetype with an emphasis on defense instead of attack, maybe as an AC bonus equal to damage dealt with the main hand weapon when one hasn't attacked with their off hand weapon.

Sounds like a great idea, throwing needs some love, and javelin guy/skirmisher was pretty much archetype of light infantry trough on our good Earth.

[gkathellar]

The duelist's moderate power has a redundancy problem. The opponent gains a -2 to AC vs. the duelist, and the duelist gain +2 to attack against the opponent ... which ultimately translates to +4 attack (a pretty big bonus for E6). It almost feels like the penalty to the opponent should be removed and the duelist's bonus should be expanded to an AC boost.

EDIT: Well, that or just double the bonus so as to reduce confusion.

[Gnorman]

What about an archetype that harasses the enemy with thrown weaponry and then closes in for the kill by giving an ally flanking? Could gear things towards spears specifically. My other suggestion is a two weapon fighting archetype with an emphasis on defense instead of attack, maybe as an AC bonus equal to damage dealt with the main hand weapon when one hasn't attacked with their off hand weapon.


Sounds like a great idea, throwing needs some love, and javelin guy/skirmisher was pretty much archetype of light infantry trough on our good Earth.

Fantastic idea, and agreed, throwing definitely needs some love. It wasn't likely to get love elsewhere (except an archer archetype, I guess), so this is perfect.


The duelist's moderate power has a redundancy problem. The opponent gains a -2 to AC vs. the duelist, and the duelist gain +2 to attack against the opponent ... which ultimately translates to +4 attack (a pretty big bonus for E6). It almost feels like the penalty to the opponent should be removed and the duelist's bonus should be expanded to an AC boost.

EDIT: Well, that or just double the bonus so as to reduce confusion.

I'll see about cleaning up the ability and its language.