It's raining Bison, Hallelujah !

[von Tortrix]

Is there any ruling against placing the target of your summon monster/nat's ally spell in the air?

I don't know how effective this tactic would be, but I recently had the urge to summon 1d4+1 Aurochs 45ish feet above an enemy. Or better yet, have the enemy down a hole (Create pit) to add an extra 30 ft to the poor Aurochs' descent.

So are there any rules against this?
Thanks.

[Urpriest]

Has to be on a surface that can support the animal. It's in the general rules for (summoning) spells in the Magic chapter.

[von Tortrix]

Oh. Well that's a shame. Thanks for the help

[Telonius]

While that's true, you can sometimes use the environment to your advantage. There's nothing to stop you from summoning a bison on the stable cliff just above the enemy, then having it jump on top of him.

[Calanon]

While that's true, you can sometimes use the environment to your advantage. There's nothing to stop you from summoning a bison on the stable cliff just above the enemy, then having it jump on top of him.

My reaction if a DM would allow this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs)

How much preperation would dropping JUST one bison do? I mean you could always use gate 45ft in the air to the non-elemental plane of Bisons >_>

[Fouredged Sword]

There is an item called the survival bag that lets you pull out a donkey a number of times per day.

I have used it for this and other froms of defensive and agressive animal abuse.

It works great for blocking stairs and providing soft cover for a ranged attacker.

[DarkestKnight]

use arcane fusion to cast create water and summon a whale (or suitably sized animal. perhaps a water buffalo) into said water.

[Chilingsworth]

use arcane fusion to cast create water and summon a whale (or suitably sized animal. perhaps a water buffalo) into said water.

How? Arcane Fusion is a Sorcerer-only spell, iirc. Create Water is not, nor to my knowledge can it be made to be, on the sorcerer spell list. :smallconfused:

I know you're probably joking, but now I want to know if this is even remotely possible.

[Quietus]

How? Arcane Fusion is a Sorcerer-only spell, iirc. Create Water is not, nor to my knowledge can it be made to be, on the sorcerer spell list. :smallconfused:

I know you're probably joking, but now I want to know if this is even remotely possible.

I suppose that also ignores the fact that by the time your caster level is high enough to create a volume of water large enough to "support" a whale or other suitably large creature, there's much more effective ways to murder things.

[Chilingsworth]

I suppose that also ignores the fact that by the time your caster level is high enough to create a volume of water large enough to "support" a whale or other suitably large creature, there's much more effective ways to murder things.

Peh, by the time you can cast Arcane Fusion, or summon a sutitably large creature, there are better ways to deal with things, via murder or otherwise.

[Zaq]

A creature with a fly speed can presumably be summoned in midair, no? Just order them to let themselves fall.

[Worlok]

You can summon a whale in mid-air, no problem. You just also have to summon a bowl of petunias to go with it. :smallwink:

[Talentless]

Solution is simple.
Quickened Wall of Force over the hole with the enemy inside.
Summon the Bison.
Cancel the Wall of Force somehow.
?????????????????
Profit

[Gensh]

Druid 17+:
>Entangle enemies somehow
>Cast Reverse Gravity (enemies entangled on ground)
>Cast Summon Nature's Ally IX to summon 1d4+1 tyrannosaurs in midair
>Dismiss Reverse Gravity
>Raining tyrannosaurs; what more do you want?

[DarkestKnight]

i was kind of joking earlier, as i vaguely remembered arcane fusion allowed some fun combos of spells but given that you want to air drop critters i shall find a more serious solution.

also i appreciate that you are adhering to the twelfth maxim of maximally effective mercenaries‎: everything is air droppable at least once.

[NNescio]

Solution is simple.
Quickened Wall of Force over the hole with the enemy inside.
Summon the Bison.
Cancel the Wall of Force somehow.
?????????????????
Profit

Wall of Force
...
Duration: 1 round /level (D)


(D) Dismissible

If the Duration line ends with "(D)," you can dismiss the spell at will. You must be within range of the spell’s effect and must speak words of dismissal, which are usually a modified form of the spell’s verbal component. If the spell has no verbal component, you can dismiss the effect with a gesture. Dismissing a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

[Talentless]

Wall of Force
...
Duration: 1 round /level (D)

I know that, i was just using it as a list of Profit style thing.

[supermonkeyjoe]

Wall of force says:

The caster can form the wall into a flat, vertical plane whose area is up to one 10-foot square per level.

It's Wall of force, not floor of force for a reason :smalltongue:no using it as a summoning platform.

[Pelfaid]

Does it ever say how thick the wall is, all I can find is its area? If it is at least 5ft thick, then the bison would fit. :smallsmile:

[Feytalist]

A creature with a fly speed can presumably be summoned in midair, no? Just order them to let themselves fall.


A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.

In the narrowest interpretation, a square of empty air cannot support even a flying creature. So I guess you have to summon flyers on the ground? Silly but... RAW?

[Dr.Epic]

Man, I thought this thread would be about sky bison.:smallfrown:

[Gullintanni]

In the narrowest interpretation, a square of empty air cannot support even a flying creature. So I guess you have to summon flyers on the ground? Silly but... RAW?

Actually, in the narrowest interpretation you can not summon a creature into a square of empty space, per your reference from the SRD. The space you're summoning the creature into is full of air and is therefore not empty space.

The relevant caveat, IMO, is whether or not whatever's filling the space will support the creature...ergo, I think Zaqs exploit might work...although you could also make a case to suggest that such a flying creature is supporting itself, as opposed to whatever fills the space you're summoning it into. If you take that interpretation, this still doesn't work.

...but realistically speaking, you could probably summon an Air Elemental 400 feet in the air just on the basis that air actually WILL support an Air Elemental. You know, assuming your spell has the range.

Bison still won't work.

[Feytalist]

Actually, in the narrowest interpretation you can not summon a creature into a square of empty space, per your reference from the SRD. The space you're summoning the creature into is full of air and is therefore not empty space.

Hah! Fair enough. Always beware of semantics :smalltongue:

Seriously though, one should be able to summon a flyer in the air. I've always done it, and never even thought about it twice.

[Ravens_cry]

You can summon a whale in mid-air, no problem. You just also have to summon a bowl of petunias to go with it. :smallwink:
"Oh no, not again,"

[Gullintanni]

Hah! Fair enough. Always beware of semantics :smalltongue:

Seriously though, one should be able to summon a flyer in the air. I've always done it, and never even thought about it twice.

Haha yeah, totally a semantic argument...but we're arguing RAW and this is WOTC, so really...is there any other kind? :smalltongue:

I have to agree though, summoning a flyer in the air makes sense.