Ultimate Rage!

[Abaddon87]

My WLD Thread got me thinking about rage classes and I'm wondering... is this a viable rage build?

Barbarian 15 / Bear Warrior 5 // Mineral Warrior Fighter 2 / Totemist 3 / Warshaper 5 / Frenzied Berserker 10

Any suggestable tweaks? Moar Bear? Less Frenzied? Isnt there a ACF for Barbarian that gives them pounce? Is Totemist worthless? WHat feats are needed (besides prereqs)?

I was thinking just a load of Extra Rage and Extended Rage and perhaps Leap Attack? Maybe Endurance and Steadfast Determination? Is there a free way to get Endurance?

I turn to you Playground! Make me a monster of death!

[Seerow]

Doesn't Gestalt have the rule of only one prestige class at a time? That makes your 5 levels of Bear Warrior illegal.

[Worlok]

The Lion Totem Barbarian substitution levels net you pounce, if I recall correctly. It's in one of the "Complete..." books I believe. :smallconfused:

Other than that, moar bear always orsum durr! So... Perhaps Bear Totem and Feral Creature, just for claws, pouncing and bear? Than there's being a half-orc and going Eye of Gruumsh for Swing Blindly on top of that, going for Leap Attack later. But Gestalt and PrCs is a tricky subject sometimes.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Doesn't Gestalt have the rule of only one prestige class at a time? That makes your 5 levels of Bear Warrior illegal.

Keep the Bear Warrior and take out the TPK-in-a-can.

[Seerow]

The Lion Totem Barbarian substitution levels net you pounce, if I recall correctly. It's in one of the "Complete..." books I believe. :smallconfused:

Spirit Lion Totem from Complete Champion. Regular Lion Totem is in Unearthed Arcana and is pretty bad.

[Abaddon87]

Doesn't Gestalt have the rule of only one prestige class at a time? That makes your 5 levels of Bear Warrior illegal.

Probably, but we handwave that. If we are playing Gestalt its because we have 3 total people (2 players and a DM) and we need all the awesome we can get to live!

[Abaddon87]

Keep the Bear Warrior and take out the TPK-in-a-can.

But if I take Steadfast Determination I'm much more likely to save and end my rage if needed. Its only a DC 20...

[Worlok]

Spirit Lion Totem from Complete Champion. Regular Lion Totem is in Unearthed Arcana and is pretty bad.
I always laughed at that mistake where I saw it written, and the ONE time I post about this myself... :smallannoyed: But yeah, sure, not Lion, Spirit Lion. Or Lion Spirit. Anyhow, Complete Champion, yes. Just listen to Seerow, he knows his stuff. :smallamused:

[Abaddon87]

Spirit Lion Totem replaces what in the base class Barbarian? Sorry I dont own complete champion :(

And any thoughts on the feats?

[Seerow]

Spirit Lion Totem replaces what in the base class Barbarian? Sorry I dont own complete champion :(

And any thoughts on the feats?

Spirit Lion Totem is a ACF replaces Fast Movement with Pounce.

[Abaddon87]

OH and are there any special items/weapon properties/armor enhancments etc that would be good for someone who cant activate items when they are needed most?

[Worlok]

Well, for feats on a rage-user the go-to-thing is the line based on Power Attack, encompassing Improved Bullrush, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Sunder, Combat Brute, Shock Trooper and lastly Leap Attack for maximum pain output by melee - flavored perhaps with the odd dip in Scout for movement-based bonus damage (and less trouble with working in skill tricks the likes of Great Leap) or Fighter for even more tasty feats, allowing you to free up slots for the prerequisites on your prestige classes that aren't fighter bonus feats (or additional "Extend Rage" doses).

The variant Paladins (of Freedom and of Slaughter in particular) are sometimes taken in if you intend to pump Charisma for Intimidate and want to get more goods out of that score, such as better saves and perhaps turning undead for gishing divine metamagics a bit further down the line. Speaking of Charisma, there is Sorcerer, some people enjoy the Rage Mage approach and specifically Arcane Strike in rages, but if you want to incorporate spellcasting, Barbarian typically makes for a somewhat awkward companion to it, leaving the field here to prepared casters who branch out in less loaded fighting classes.

And while we're talking magic: Get yourself lots of permanent buffs, if you can. Say, a highly-enchanted outfit of armor, bonuses and enchantments on your (likely two-handed) weapon, items that increase Strength, Constitution and whatever else you feel you could need more of. Most things that pump up your key social skill (Intimidate), your mobility and action count (Belts of Battle, Boots of Speed, the works of it) and your control ability (Some simply go by the Combat Expertise feat line to net them Improved Trip and Knock-Down or play a large race and utilise Knockback, Awesome Blow or Fling Enemy, others roll out further Charisma-milkage and tie some sort of fear effect to their scariness, as per Imperious Command, for example, but should you be short on feats, most things with auras or customised BOOM-effects on them are your best friends and) will be welcome in your savage-claws. Then, there's of course having supporting cast(s) in your party; as long as you can convince some of those to bust their initiative rolls up a notch and invest in buffing, chances are you will never want for an opening overkill.

As a word of warning though, my thoughts anyway, lion-spirited, leap-attacking charge-specialised raging builds can crank out absolutely godless damage if they get the right conditions going, so depending on your group's optimisation average and your DM's DM-ing skill, you may completely kill the late-game fights for everyone and/or awaken the horrors of munchkinry. So first and foremost, just play what you feel like. With barbarians, a good build is always that one bit better, so you can generally just rock out with roleplaying pissed-off dudes fueled by warrior's honor and awesomeness and pull all sorts of crazy, manly, boast-worthy and badass crap without any fear whatsoever while still being useful for about as long as they will keep you in the party. Pressure's looow on you with these, so just kick back and get your METAL on at leisure. :smallamused:

[Abaddon87]

Now I'm wondering what would be better... A Barbarian with no Bear Warrior and can use weapons with abilities that fit (raging, charging etc) or a Barbarian with Bear Warrior who has items that buff his fighting and self-healing etc... Cant use a greatspear in bear form :(

[Seerow]

To be perfectly honest? You mentioned you use gestalt and ignore some of the rules because you have a 2 person party. To me that screams you need flexibility more than raw power. Right now, your half of the party does one thing: Kill things dead. And it only works against creatures you can get to and hit in melee.

I would seriously consider finding some way to gish it up, or mix in another class with a different role, just so everything that isn't melee combat doesn't fall onto your partner.

[Abaddon87]

To be perfectly honest? You mentioned you use gestalt and ignore some of the rules because you have a 2 person party. To me that screams you need flexibility more than raw power. Right now, your half of the party does one thing: Kill things dead. And it only works against creatures you can get to and hit in melee.

I would seriously consider finding some way to gish it up, or mix in another class with a different role, just so everything that isn't melee combat doesn't fall onto your partner.

The other player is usually some kind of Gestalt Wiz//Sorc if that helps put perspective on things? Right now he's doing Kobold shenanigans as well...

We have some healbot dmnpcs sometimes also...

So would you say to go just Barbarian with no Bear Warrior? That way I can throw things with Power Throw if I'm at range? Couldnt a Warshaper grow wings? I could FLY!

[Demons_eye]

The other player is usually some kind of Gestalt Wiz//Sorc if that helps put perspective on things? Right now he's doing Kobold shenanigans as well...

We have some healbot dmnpcs sometimes also...

So would you say to go just Barbarian with no Bear Warrior? That way I can throw things with Power Throw if I'm at range? Couldnt a Warshaper grow wings? I could FLY!

Wing attacks but alas no fly speed.

[Dr.Epic]

Moar Bear?

How can you go wrong with more bear? I was once a level 10 bear warrior with 8 levels of FB. I was a bear killing machine! I was un-BEAR-ably DIRE!:smallwink:

[Abaddon87]

Wing attacks but alas no fly speed.

Curses... so I cant be this while flying around tearing off faces:

http://davidlavallee.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/winged_bear_by_vorix.jpg