is your DM a wuss

[Dr.Orpheus]

i am just interested allot of DMs have underchallenged me lately and so i want to hear your stories of when your DM has ether let you get away with something out outrageous in my case using a magic item i was given at level 2 to corrupt an empire to worship my evil god or if they kill or maim the party for fun such as when my parties cleric drowned in goblin feces

[Calanon]

i am just interested allot of DMs have underchallenged me lately and so i want to hear your stories of when your DM has ether let you get away with something out outrageous in my case using a magic item i was given at level 2 to corrupt an empire to worship my evil god or if they kill or maim the party for fun such as when my parties cleric drowned in goblin feces

I'm only a wuss for the first 2 games, than I actually start trying to kill PC's.

[BobVosh]

#1 is a wuss, #2 is a dragon
It is odd building between the two games.

[Flickerdart]

The best time to spring horrible murder on your party is when they've been caught off guard by their latest success. Remember that, and tread carefully.

[Coidzor]

I wouldn't say he was a wuss, but he definitely knows that if he starts to bore us by getting off at the table over PC death and dismemberment we'll start playing a different game in front of him pointedly.

Well, unless we're in mixed company, then we'd probably throw a towel at him and leave the room to minimize the amount of time any women or children had to see that.

[Little Brother]

Given my mortality rate(Even factoring in how much the dice hate me), and the fact that I am the best optimizer in the group, I'm gonna say no way. I've lost a good five characters in a six month period. Over half of them to things with falchions. How I hates them, my preciouses.

[Dr.Orpheus]

my friend had a characer named alex gearhart (4 fighter, 2 barbarian, 2 ranger, 1 sorcerer) out of all his characters it was the least optimised but the most developed as a character (being an A-hole all the time but in a very stylized way) alex managed to distroy 3 towns worth of people and it seemed to get hurt allot but never went below 1/4 health and was quite lucky on saves the only thing that could stop his killing sprees was the spell color spray

[Gavinfoxx]

Dr. O: is your period key broken? These no punctuation sentences are REALLY hard to read. Are you posting from a phone? Also, your vulgarity level is somewhat distressing, could you perhaps tone it down a little? I would like to read your posts and reply to the points you are making, but I really find it quite hard.

[Doorhandle]

I second that for both of them.

[Saintheart]

my friend had a characer named alex gearhart (4 fighter, 2 barbarian, 2 ranger, 1 sorcerer) out of all his characters it was the least optimised but the most developed as a character (being an A-hole all the time but in a very stylized way) alex managed to distroy 3 towns worth of people and it seemed to get hurt allot but never went below 1/4 health and was quite lucky on saves the only thing that could stop his killing sprees was the spell color spray

How does this connect with your DM being a wuss?

And more to the point, you don't find it just mildly ungrateful to be jeering about the DM's supposed mercy towards you? Half the complaints about DMs on this board seem to be directed to DMs who persistently send massively overpowered enemies at the PCs?

I mean, come on. DMs already have to think six or seven steps ahead of the players, and at least ten steps ahead of the player with the wizard. Rubbing their faces in them going easy on you isn't exactly a kind way to thank them for their work and hosting the game to start with. :smallannoyed:

[candycorn]

Well, I am our current DM, so I hope not!

Recent adventure. Party is comprised of 4 players.
Dragonborn Dwarf Knight 9
Human Cleric 9 (DMM Persist)
Human Duskblade 9
Changeling Factotum 5 / Chameleon 4

Party is infiltrating demon-controlled wastelands to get a MacGuffin, the destruction of which is in their interests. They make a deal with a trio of Succubi (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#succubus), who agree to guide the party to the creature holding the item, in exchange for a service (killing a nearby rival). Now, the Succubi have no intention of really following through here... They were going to wait for the party to get this item, then attempt to suckerpunch them and take it.

Well, they escort the party to a Glabrezu (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#glabrezu). Now, it's willing to deal with the party, but the cleric's of a somewhat impatient nature (being a goodly sort and bartering with the enemy will do that, I guess)... Well, right as the Glabrezu winds into its "sure, I'll trade it to you, but I want to throw another trade on the table. I'll grant any one of you your fondest Wish, if you'll destroy the <MacGuffin> only after you've left the Demon Wastes..."

You see, the Macguffin releases a curse that imbues water with poison when it is destroyed. The Glabrezu figured that the deaths of hundreds was a suitably evil act to accept in trade. The cleric, however, interrupted it. Right after the "but..." he threw a Demon Dirge at it.

The resulting combat saw the cleric stunned for most of it (Power word: Stun), the Knight and the Duskblade both in the single digits for HP, and the factotum desperately trying to find a way to make something happen, but resorting to healing the two frontliners. They finally dropped it, but the party was battered.

The succubi moved in, at that point, and only due to some really fast talking by the factotum did they broker an agreement... The party got the <MacGuffin>, succubi kept everything else...

Only to have the Cleric, who missed most of the last fight to stun, threw ANOTHER Demon Dirge. That one actually stunned a succubus. The party gets ready to fight them, having healed some due to Fast healing from the cleric... And the Factotum wins initiative, uses his arcane focus and manages to squeak off a scroll of Teleport, sending the party 900 miles away, and more or less safe (since the Succubi couldn't trace it).

[Eldan]

We've been playing for a year, and I don't have killed anyone yet. No one even took much damage.

I guess that makes me a wuss?

[Gensh]

In my last game, only one person died, and it was so unfortunate that I let them res for free, so it might seem like it. I was secretly tracking their San scores the entire game, though, so make of that what you will :smalltongue:.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

If you think they aren't giving your group level appropriate encounters, talk to them about it, don't just complain about it. And a 'wuss' DM is a lot more 'fun' then the DM who has armed every commoner to the teeth with alchemists fire that is homing on PCs.

[Firechanter]

Some of my GMs were wusses, yes.

One generally mainly ran published modules, and didn't adjust the encounters to our power level. Even if that meant we got to slay level 1 zombies and orcs when we were level 10. As far as I remember, nobody ever broke a real sweat in his game, even when the modules were designed for our party level.

Another was considerably tougher, there were a couple of close calls. However, I know he would have handwaved away any actual character deaths (he GMed Conan for us, so no Raise Dead spells there).

A third one was a type of railroading god. It was like "Nobody dies unless I say so". He rolled covert and fudged the dice to get whatever result he wanted. Not only in combat but also in skill checks and stuff like that -- no matter how good you were at something, you'd only succeed if he wanted you to. In the beginning he had some cool plots, but after a while it got just annoying.

Personally, I try to challenge my players, but I do not kill off PCs lightly - I guess you could say they have to act pretty stupid to bring death upon them. Of course, sometimes an encounter can just go sour, which is why I'm glad that D&D has a safety net of death-cheating magic.

[candycorn]

If you think they aren't giving your group level appropriate encounters, talk to them about it, don't just complain about it. And a 'wuss' DM is a lot more 'fun' then the DM who has armed every commoner to the teeth with alchemists fire that is homing on PCs.

Are you kidding? My first DM made every barkeep a level 18 wizard, and every grizzled old man drinking a level 20 fighter. The ladies of the town were all level 16+ rogues, and there was a great wyrm dragon in disguise in every town.

[KoboldCleric]

Hmm ... 6'5, 245lbs, ex-Navy SEAL. Definitely NOT a "wuss"

[Gotterdammerung]

I have had some "wuss" GMs before. They would always have some dues ex machina for raises when party members died. And the monsters ac would suddenly change to ac 0 when the party wasnt doing well. Usually those games fizzle out quickly tho.

I don't mind "wusses" so much since usually they can't sustain the campaign interest so i dont have to put up with them long.

I do get slightly annoyed by cardboard GMs, who basically just run pre-printed mods like a mindless computer. It robs everything from D and D. And puts it in direct competition with computer games and online games.

I also get annoyed by GMs with "GM versus player" mentalities. Instead of understanding that a GM's role is to provide a wonderful game experience for the players, they get wrapped up in their GM godlike power and try to kill the players at every moment. "Oh you went to the outhouse!? aha well you are alone so your archnemesis with 42 templates is scrying you 24/7 so he knows you are alone and have your pants down.... roll initiative."

Personally, My GM style is to populate my world with people and things. And then allow the players to interact their way through a story. I try not to plan to far ahead so that the players have the freedom to effect the story dynamically.

[Kol Korran]

hhhmmm.... an interesting question. i have returned to DMing about a year ago, and decided to give a (hopefully) interesting game, and hopefully a challenging one.

one step towards that was letting the players roll all the dice. (i do roll myself on very rare occasions, but that is due to some obscure rule or the like, to speed up things. i play by the dice however. always) this sort of brings trust to the table.

at first i think i may have been unchallenging or ran encounters wrongly, but that was mostly due to inexperience. some really bad "boss design" and management (cringes at bad memories). however, i think i got better.

i try to play enemies to their intelligence, and use varied tactics (not just powers). sometime the players are smarter, sometime less. there have been a few close calls, but then again- just a few. i think that on the whole the players are succeeding quite good.

this may be due to (in hindsight) generous or perhaps unbalanced in game starting condition- 32 point buy, and those damned Eberron action points which keep saving them all the time. still- adjusting.

i don't think i actually "pitied" the characters except for one occasion. they faced a boneknight villain, from which i assumed they would run. butthey decided tofight. the bone knight had "slay living" prepared, but i didn't use it. why? less due to character death possibility, but more to the fact i could not reasonably introduce another character to the situation, which i would have had to since slay living is a death effect...

not sure whether i've done right or not. i switchedthe spell for a less "save or die" spell and still gave them a HELL of a fight (25+ rounds!) and it was one of the highlights of the campaign. but still, perhaps i should have let the dice fall on this one too?

oh well...

the point (yes, there is one!)- the players wanted something fairly light, fantastic heroism, good vs. evil and so on. they have faced tough challenges and prevailed, not easily, but not in the skin of their teeth. no character has died yet in this campaign. maybe it makes me a wuss, maybe not, but the players seem to respect (and be wary, very wary) of my adventures, and the most important thing- they seem to have a BLAST of a time.

so maybe i'm a wuss, maybe not, but i think i'm a fairly ok (and always vying to improve) DM
[/patting myself on the back, saying "good show lad!"] :smallwink:

[HunterOfJello]

It's hard to consistently create fights that aren't under-challenging and aren't over-challenging. The best thing I can usually hope to create is a fight that isn't completely over the top and is actually fun to play.

I've created exceptions to death twice in the last several months. The first time was when a strong crusader/cleric npc that was working as a bodyguard for the party almost died after rolling a 1 on a saving throw against a spell, but got saved because he had the Pride domain. I was kind of angry at myself for building him to be such a good tank and generally wanted him to die already, but I left things as they were.

The second time was when I reversed a rule change about how flat-footedness works in fights. In our original games, we used the RAW rules that at the beginning of a fight all characters are flat-footed until their turn. This was later revised so that if enemies are fully aware of one another when a fight breaks out (like talking to one another about dueling beforehand), then none of the characters start out flat-footed. Rereading the PHB during the weekend before that game I looked through the entire sections on surprise rounds and flat-footed rules and came to the conclusion that the way we were running things was both wrong and inappropriate for fights in the game. The game should have had a much larger number of surprise rounds and should always use the flat-footed at the beginning of a fight rule. I changed the rules back to how they should be at the beginning of that session, and the party's wizard should have died because of it when he got sneak attacked by a rogue who drank an invisibility potion before the fight started. However, since I had just made the rule change that the players were both unequipped for and still pissed about, I ended up letting things slide a bit and had the character receive a healing spell from the cleric who wasn't present for the battle but had cast a Greater Status spell on the entire party earlier in the day. (I later learned that the cleric was once again wrong about how a spell works and had remembered it wrong since that spell doesn't work the way he said.)



Sometimes it's really hard to create fights that work well and use enemies that don't completely destroy a party with 2 or 3 spells. Things are even worse in gestalt campaigns. I'm never playing a gestalt campaign past level 6 again.

[Frosty]

Given my mortality rate(Even factoring in how much the dice hate me), and the fact that I am the best optimizer in the group, I'm gonna say no way. I've lost a good five characters in a six month period. Over half of them to things with falchions. How I hates them, my preciouses.I think you need to be introduced to my friend Fortification, Heavy :smallbiggrin:

[Elitarismo]

I think you need to be introduced to my friend Fortification, Heavy :smallbiggrin:

There is a reason why this is an obligatory enhancement.

On topic: No. If he were I would get bored easily. When I'm running the show, definitely not. I'll let you have plenty of power, but that's because you'll need every last bit of it. I want the party to be useful and effective. That way if they win it's awesome, and if they lose it's their own fault.

[Little Brother]

I think you need to be introduced to my friend Fortification, Heavy :smallbiggrin:

A) only one or two was a crit, and B) a raging ogre with a falchion that's full power attacking hurts. A lot. And C) I didn't have the WBL at the time of the crit(s) to get it.

[smashbro]

As DM for my group, I worry about this a bit. of all the adventures we've played (idr how many, around a dozen maybe?) I haven't killed a player. Heck, we've only had one death, and luckily we had a scroll of resurrection.

Does this make me a wuss? I don't think so. There have been times that I've been close to death, and the DM saved us because we tried something interesting and creative.


As for me being a DM, the PC's have been able to deal with encounters not because they are stronger than the enemies (in fact, the hardest challenge that I've thrown at them was four CR 9 enemies when there were six LVL 13 characters) but because they are creative.




For example, in a dungeon. They find a kitchen with anything they want, which would make sense in a kitchen. One character thought to make maltov cocktails. later on, they have to face a rust monster. They decide to strap bottles to their barbarian, and have him explode in front of it. The barbarian lives (by a lot of HP).



Also, more recently, the festival was interrupted by a dragon attack. seven LVL 13 players against four CR 16 dragons. 2/7 attack one dragon. The rest decide to join the other 3 dragons in burning the town (which they believed is what the rebels wanted to do) and had the handle animal/diplomacy checks to back themselves up.

Eventually, they get the dragons to attack each other in the air, and jump off. 3 of the 4 dragons are dead, so the town thinks them as heroes. The last dragon, being really good friends with the barbarian who claims he is a dragon and sure acts like one (has bottles of something that let him breathe fire) leaves alive, and you better bet they see him again.





So yeah, what I'm getting at is that I let my players get away with a lot. But I'm ok with that, since it isn't going easy on them. it's that the players are creative.


Also, on a side note, they are terrified of being 200+ feet up in the air when they don't have their bard who knows feather fall :smallamused:

[candycorn]

As DM for my group, I worry about this a bit. of all the adventures we've played (idr how many, around a dozen maybe?) I haven't killed a player. Heck, we've only had one death, and luckily we had a scroll of resurrection.

Does this make me a wuss? I don't think so. There have been times that I've been close to death, and the DM saved us because we tried something interesting and creative.


As for me being a DM, the PC's have been able to deal with encounters not because they are stronger than the enemies (in fact, the hardest challenge that I've thrown at them was four CR 9 enemies when there were six LVL 13 characters) but because they are creative.




For example, in a dungeon. They find a kitchen with anything they want, which would make sense in a kitchen. One character thought to make maltov cocktails. later on, they have to face a rust monster. They decide to strap bottles to their barbarian, and have him explode in front of it. The barbarian lives (by a lot of HP).



Also, more recently, the festival was interrupted by a dragon attack. seven LVL 13 players against four CR 16 dragons. 2/7 attack one dragon. The rest decide to join the other 3 dragons in burning the town (which they believed is what the rebels wanted to do) and had the handle animal/diplomacy checks to back themselves up.

Eventually, they get the dragons to attack each other in the air, and jump off. 3 of the 4 dragons are dead, so the town thinks them as heroes. The last dragon, being really good friends with the barbarian who claims he is a dragon and sure acts like one (has bottles of something that let him breathe fire) leaves alive, and you better bet they see him again.





So yeah, what I'm getting at is that I let my players get away with a lot. But I'm ok with that, since it isn't going easy on them. it's that the players are creative.


Also, on a side note, they are terrified of being 200+ feet up in the air when they don't have their bard who knows feather fall :smallamused:

That bold section? If you feel like the DM bailed you out, rather than your own quick thinking? Then the DM likely showed a bit more clemency than I'm used to giving my players.

They've tried creative tricks that have utterly hosed them, just as they've tried creative tricks that got them through a tough scrape. But in each case, they got through only if they earned their way through.

[Lord.Sorasen]

I'm going to be honest. I'm a DM, and I'm also a wuss. I tend to give the party a lot of advantages that don't make much sense.

But for good reason! My whole group, everyone's a wuss. Nobody in my group wants to see their characters die, and so we're all happy with the result.

[Trekkin]

I typically adjust the level to which I handle the party gently in response to the degree to which they feel hopeless. In general, my games have ambiguous victory conditions, so when my players feel like the game is "too easy" they tend to start questioning everything, at which point I start gradually increasing the difficulty through the answers. I've never caused a TPK, but I've never had a player claim victory was easy, either, because they assume an easy victory is an incomplete one--and so they find themselves to be correct. :smallbiggrin:

It is also fun to occasionally let them have an easy "win" and subsequently let them dig themselves into a very deep hole out of their admittedly well-founded paranoia. The party makes the best BBEGs, after all.

[Ravens_cry]

i am just interested allot of DMs have underchallenged me lately and so i want to hear your stories of when your DM has ether let you get away with something out outrageous in my case using a magic item i was given at level 2 to corrupt an empire to worship my evil god or if they kill or maim the party for fun such as when my parties cleric drowned in goblin feces
I see your post is neither a pre-menstrual woman, nor a nation, state, nor province.
As for answering the question, the first time I played a wizard, at level 15, after playing only clerics before, and it was only my first campaign, I convinced the DM I could Flesh to Stone on a giant undead meat amoeba. Now, I was ignorant of the full facets of undead immunities, but the other players, including a player who has been playing longer than I had been decanted, egged the DM into allowing it.

[Xtomjames]

Most of my DM's aren't wusses, but rather they tend to underestimate my characters and my ability to see through what they have planned. For example in an early game this year I was playing an Archon Hound Rogue who was a master of chakrams. My character purchased a polymorph scroll at some point in game and had planned to use it for something else but the irony is how it was used. One of the bad guys in the game used chakrams to attack a village and then attacked me and my party. Its chakrams disabled my DR and SR so I teleported away and used the polymorph to turn into an Astral Deva and attacked and overwhelmed the bady and resurrected the child who was killed.

[Coidzor]

I see your post is neither a pre-menstrual woman, nor a nation, state, nor province.

What? :smallconfused:

[Dralnu]

For the first year or so of DMing I would fudge crit rolls into less damage / misses if I knew that it would kill one of the PCs. I never caused a PC death.

The first time I killed a PC was when I was running Red Hand of Doom and the very first fight, the group's tank, who sometimes makes, ah, "unsafe" choices, decided to charge straight into the open field after the rest of the group went into the cover of the forest. After a couple rounds of taking 90% of the enemy's fire (the enemy archers had no other targets in sight) he died after I pointed out that he loses his CON bonus after his rage. He gave me a look like I killed his puppy and wasn't happy for the rest of the session. :smallfrown:

Since then I've very rarely killed PCs, but I make it a point to never fudge rolls and will punish stupidity.

My DM used to be pretty brutal. He basically killed every player's PC at least once. I absolutely loved it. This current campaign he started strong but now is getting a little soft. He had to bend over backwards not to TPK us when we deserved it. I'm hoping he cranks the lethality up a notch.

[Ravens_cry]

What? :smallconfused:
Sorry, a very bad pun. But evidently the post had no capitals or periods.
So technically it should say pre-menopausal. My bad.

[faceroll]

i am just interested allot of DMs have underchallenged me lately and so i want to hear your stories of when your DM has ether let you get away with something out outrageous in my case using a magic item i was given at level 2 to corrupt an empire to worship my evil god or if they kill or maim the party for fun such as when my parties cleric drowned in goblin feces

Here, I had some left over.
,,,,,....;;;;::::------((()))))

[Dr.Orpheus]

sorry about the lack of punctuation haters, i have not taken an englich class in 3 years, and i can kinda understand the vulgarity, and i will try to keep it more mild. Back to the main topic a dm of mine ran the same campain twice. Frst time leting us fly around on a flying ship and get attacked by assorted drakes witch soon killed us, the second time not allowing us to purchase the boat till much later and we are still alive. The point i'm getting at is that why would you be more likely to be attacked by these drakes at lower levels. I understand why another DM might do this. but my friend did not roll for the encounter, and did not deside to give us easyer encounters though this is somthing he would do. I talked to him about it and he said he does not like players geting super items, understandable but why not decrease future treasure budget. The only way i think it would be acceptable to kill a player for balancing purposes is if the character gains the ability to accumulate power with through meens other than xp or gp, otherwise the DM may send in harder monsters. Sometimes if they just ruin some important plotline you can kill someone. Overall i think DM's should be less emotionaly attached to the game and players should just know they will all die at some point

[umbergod]

Most of my past DMs pulled punches to avoid killing PCs. Last one had a 3 strikes rule for doing stupid ****. New one, who is also new at DMing, said hes not pulling punches, which I am excited for. As a chronic character creator, I find it hard to get attached to a character idea. Having to fight to keep a character alive makes it challenging and builds that character attachment faster :D

[Shotaro]

I would call a DM a wuss only, ONLY if they wussed out of something that should have killed a player, otherwise if you guys are finding the fights easy he has probably underestimated your competance and will no doubt adjust accordingly.

In your specific example either you have a munchkin or he has no idea what items are capable of, if you have a munchkin, roll a new character. If he has no clue, help him for god's sake

[Dr_S]

My group has gotten me a very serious "Am I a wuss" complex.

Because in my group half are super experienced master optimizers (as in have more play experience than I), and the other half had barely played before ever (one guy it was his first character ever) So if I throw anything appropriate level at them they totally destroy it, but if I throw something that is actually a challenge my newbies get obliterated so I have once or twice fudged a roll to save them (only the newbies) when it wasn't particularly their fault. On the other hand one of them died twice because he refused to even heal before looking for traps. (and by look for traps I mean touch stuff he wasn't a rogue either time)

I eventually had to give up running that game because trying to figure out which CR 10s wouldn't kill a party of level 5's too fast was getting to be a challenge. (Apparently if I wanted to wipe the party anything with DR would have done it)

[faceroll]

My group has gotten me a very serious "Am I a wuss" complex.

Because in my group half are super experienced master optimizers (as in have more play experience than I), and the other half had barely played before ever (one guy it was his first character ever) So if I throw anything appropriate level at them they totally destroy it, but if I throw something that is actually a challenge my newbies get obliterated so I have once or twice fudged a roll to save them (only the newbies) when it wasn't particularly their fault. On the other hand one of them died twice because he refused to even heal before looking for traps. (and by look for traps I mean touch stuff he wasn't a rogue either time)

I eventually had to give up running that game because trying to figure out which CR 10s wouldn't kill a party of level 5's too fast was getting to be a challenge. (Apparently if I wanted to wipe the party anything with DR would have done it)

Next time, set boundaries for your players. Optimization works best in an environment where the DM cannot say "no" to the players.

[AzazelSephiroth]

Since I am often the DM in my group I would like to think I am not a wuss :smallwink: But I have been guilty of keeping my players alive when once or twice they would have been dead as door nails! I have always been of the opinion that the danger level of any game is a special balance between keeping tension and keeping fun. I have had no complaints and have had many deaths and near death survivals.
That being said I have also played in many games... some with DMs who were guilty of never letting us feel in danger at all and another who was one of the worst! He constantly railroaded us into his story, required we think like him to accomplish his mission goals and was extremely deadly! I lost three characters to his game for no reason other than I couldn`t figure out what he wanted!:smallfurious: However, as my wife said, do not return to the abusive relationship, no matter how much fun one session might have been... and as he was one of the few friends willing to DM... but I eventually said no more and quit his game! I have to DM more than I get to play but I no longer feel hours of frustration over in decipherable stoyline!

Long post short... too late :smallbiggrin: I am not a wuss... I hope, I have played with a few who just couldn`t work the balance, but I would rather play with a wuss than a demon!