The Iliad

[mirageknuckler]

Hello all,
I'm doing a project on the Iliad for English, and I had a flash of brilliance. Why not make characters from the Iliad into Dungeons and Dragons characters? In case you've never read the Iliad, it has a looot of characters, who have special armor and weapons. Seems a pretty good fit for the D&D mechanics, or so I thought. Alright, now to get to the important things. I'm doing this in the 3.5 edition because I'm somewhat familiar with it, but I'm no pro. I was wondering if some of you more experienced players could help me out in putting together character sheets and the like. I would really appreciate it. If you're unfamiliar with the Iliad, simply go to this link: http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/iliad/characters.html. The characters I'm hoping to 'D&D-ize' are Achilles, Hector, Menelaus, Agamemnon, both Ajaxes, Teucer, and Odysseus. If this too much to ask or if I've posted this in the wrong place, please let me know.
Thanks in advance.

[Gnaeus]

What books do you want? Are things like tome of battle available? Since most of those characters are fundamentally human, you are talking about probably not more than 5 class levels on anyone, maybe 7-8 for demigods like Achilles. Is that what you want, or are you looking for more of an epic feel? Do you want them built conceptually, or restricted to abilities in the books (for example, if Teucer is a ranger, by default he gets spells and an animal companion. Is that OK? We can swap those out if all sources are in play, but then you will get a lot of books, etc...)

[Zonugal]

Oh man I love the Iliad...

Off the top of my head Odysseus seems very much like a Warblade (perhaps the first in literature).

Achilles would probably also be served well as a Crusader or Warblade with some type of divine-based template (perhaps one of the Half-X templates or God-Blooded).

Agamemnon might be a Fighter/Marshal who went into Legendary Leader.

Menelaus could be a standard Fighter type of build.

Great Ajax could be a Goliath Fighter (with Dungeoncrasher) while Little Ajax a typical Scout build.

Hector could also be a Warblade or even a Swift Hunter (if you wanted to shift it up)

Eh?

[flumphy]

I read a really awesome thread awhile back on another forum about building Odysseus, but I can't find it again. One interesting option I do remember was making him a Seeker of the Misty Isle Ithaca, but that's obviously more relevant to the Odyssey than the Iliad.

Anyway, I'll wait for a list of sources before I go any further.

[mirageknuckler]

What books do you want? Are things like tome of battle available? Since most of those characters are fundamentally human, you are talking about probably not more than 5 class levels on anyone, maybe 7-8 for demigods like Achilles. Is that what you want, or are you looking for more of an epic feel? Do you want them built conceptually, or restricted to abilities in the books (for example, if Teucer is a ranger, by default he gets spells and an animal companion. Is that OK? We can swap those out if all sources are in play, but then you will get a lot of books, etc...)
I'm thinking maybe the levels shouldn't range higher then 9, and even then that should be reserved for Achilles/Hector. Any books can be used. I'd like to keep it close to the book, but some things that don't quite align are okay. The ideas I'm hearing for classes sound pretty good. I love the idea of Odysseus as a warblade. How should I go about making Achilles' famed invincibilty?

[Kol Korran]

ok, first of all i think it is a cool idea. i am not that familiar with the Iliad and the Odyssey, other than on broad terms, but here are some thoughts:
- first of all, you should know someone tried to do something similar, and maybe you can take things from him. the guy is playing PbP on MythWeaver, is an excellent player and DM, and has quite a lot of knowledge about mythology, and more importantly- how to bring it to the gaming table.

he once published a game add for a sort of Odyssey game. E6 (starting at level 6 thought, represnting the heroes of the war), with a lot of custom rules, the most interesting ones are the equipment rules (VERY specific to the setting), the rules about getting favors from the greek gods (and not incuring their wrath), and an ingenious rule of "reading omens".

i looked it up, and you can check it here- the great song campaign (http://www.myth-weavers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=328&g=8863)

- important note- you should base the idea on the Iliad, but in no terms should the events of the story dictate the actions of PCs. they may affect them, but not dictate them. and if i know PCs, they'll try to end the war quickly and dirty. i suggest not to force players to play actual historical characters, unless they enjoy this kind of thing, and the challenge of not customizing characters in every detail.

- some classes may be either ill suited for the campaign, or exceedingly rare. magic as a whole i think should be far rarer, and much more complicated to achieve, but that i leave to you.

- most importently- since this is a very "thematic" campaign, make sure whomever joins on board understands this, likes it, and is willing to play to it's spirit (most of the time :) )
hope this helps.

[mirageknuckler]

ok, first of all i think it is a cool idea. i am not that familiar with the Iliad and the Odyssey, other than on broad terms, but here are some thoughts:
- first of all, you should know someone tried to do something similar, and maybe you can take things from him. the guy is playing PbP on MythWeaver, is an excellent player and DM, and has quite a lot of knowledge about mythology, and more importantly- how to bring it to the gaming table.

he once published a game add for a sort of Odyssey game. E6 (starting at level 6 thought, represnting the heroes of the war), with a lot of custom rules, the most interesting ones are the equipment rules (VERY specific to the setting), the rules about getting favors from the greek gods (and not incuring their wrath), and an ingenious rule of "reading omens".

i looked it up, and you can check it here- the great song campaign (http://www.myth-weavers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=328&g=8863)

- important note- you should base the idea on the Iliad, but in no terms should the events of the story dictate the actions of PCs. they may affect them, but not dictate them. and if i know PCs, they'll try to end the war quickly and dirty. i suggest not to force players to play actual historical characters, unless they enjoy this kind of thing, and the challenge of not customizing characters in every detail.

- some classes may be either ill suited for the campaign, or exceedingly rare. magic as a whole i think should be far rarer, and much more complicated to achieve, but that i leave to you.

- most importently- since this is a very "thematic" campaign, make sure whomever joins on board understands this, likes it, and is willing to play to it's spirit (most of the time :) )
hope this helps.
Yeah, I definitely think we should stay away from the spellcasting classes. I'm wondering how Achilles' invulnerabilty should be dealt with. Perhaps an astronomically high CON score?

[NNescio]

Yeah, I definitely think we should stay away from the spellcasting classes. I'm wondering how Achilles' invulnerabilty should be dealt with. Perhaps an astronomically high CON score?

DR 10/Epic, from Divine Rank 0?

[Madcrafter]

It should probably be higher than 10, since a greatsword held by a mere commoner can still get through that.

[Zonugal]

How should I go about making Achilles' famed invincibilty?

Damage reduction tends to take care of this. The Quasi-lycanthrope template grants DR 10/Silver for LA+1, so there is that option.

Also DR 10/Epic (from Divine Rank 0) does it too.

[mirageknuckler]

DR 10/Epic, from Divine Rank 0?

That would stop damage well, but how would his weak spot be represented? A natural 20?

[Claudius Maximus]

I'd say just leave it. Paris only hit it with Apollo's help, which could be represented by granting the attack the epic descriptor, which would overcome it.

Just in case you're really restricting this to the Iliad, I'll note that Achilles's invulnerability is never mentioned in there, at least as far as I can remember. Pretty sure it's in the same lost epics that featured the Trojan Horse.

And no love for Diomedes? ὤ πόποι!

[Alleran]

Just in case you're really restricting this to the Iliad, I'll note that Achilles's invulnerability is never mentioned in there, at least as far as I can remember. Pretty sure it's in the same lost epics that featured the Trojan Horse.
The famed "Achilles heel" weakness was a very late addition to the mythology, from what I recall. It was developed by Ovid in his Metamorphoses. In the Iliad, I'm pretty sure Achilles was just that badass (which was one of the reasons why Zeus enacted the plan to start the Trojan War - he wanted to rid the world of all the demigods and heroes that were cluttering up the place and making Gaia complain).


And no love for Diomedes?
Feh, Diomedes had Athena helping him a lot of the time. Especially in Book 5.

[mirageknuckler]

The famed "Achilles heel" weakness was a very late addition to the mythology, from what I recall. It was developed by Ovid in his Metamorphoses. In the Iliad, I'm pretty sure Achilles was just that badass (which was one of the reasons why Zeus enacted the plan to start the Trojan War - he wanted to rid the world of all the demigods and heroes that were cluttering up the place and making Gaia complain).


Feh, Diomedes had Athena helping him a lot of the time. Especially in Book 5.

That is true, but even so, he did manage to wound two gods. The only reason I didn't mention him was that I forgot really. Alright, disregarding the aforementioned heel, Divine Rank 0 works perfectly. Any ideas on classes for Achilles?

[Zonugal]

That is true, but even so, he did manage to wound two gods. The only reason I didn't mention him was that I forgot really. Alright, disregarding the aforementioned heel, Divine Rank 0 works perfectly. Any ideas on classes for Achilles?

Warblade works well, a swift hunter build could also be an option. It really depends on what we determine to be Achilles' fighting style.

[awa]

keep in mind Achilles wasn't the only hero descended from a god in that battle
for example Sarpedon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarpedon in fact i think most of the important heroes had a god a generation or two back

[Flame of Anor]

Feh, Diomedes had Athena helping him a lot of the time. Especially in Book 5.

Hey, Diomedes is awesome.

[Claudius Maximus]

Really though I mostly like him just for being like the one decent guy in the whole war. Though book 5 ruled too.

When constructing the characters, leadership abilities should not be overlooked. The battle scenes are most often told in terms of single combat but there are enough traces of the masses here and there in the story. White Raven maneuvers, marshal levels, and bard levels with an oratory focus might be in order.

And Nestor needs to have max ranks in Perform (Rambling).

[Cycnus]

What class would Cygnus be?