Single Classed Party?

[Vortling]

This is probably not the question you're expecting. I'm not asking if it's possible (I know it is, even without any DM fiat), I'm asking if you'd play in a game with this setup and what you'd play.

Every player plays the same class.
Tier 3s or lower
No multiclassing
One prestige class (can vary across players so if you had monks and one wanted tattooed monk and one wanted drunken master this would be allowed)
The players all must have a common background connection, but it doesn't have to be class based (ie if you're all monks you don't have to have trained under the same master or if you're all rogues you don't have to be from the same thieves guild)
The DM agrees to play to the tier of the class and avoid situations the class can't cover well (ie traps all the time dungeon for an all crusader party or undeadpalooza for an all rogue party)

What class would you want to play in this game? What background connection would you suggest to the rest of the party?

[Gnaeus]

The DM agrees to play to the tier of the class and avoid situations the class can't cover well (ie traps all the time dungeon for an all crusader party or undeadpalooza for an all rogue party)

What class would you want to play in this game? What background connection would you suggest to the rest of the party?

With Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer or Factotum, the DM can make whatever kind of dungeon he wants. I would trust a well built 4 man group with any of those classes in pretty much any situation.

[Vangor]

Factotums or Bards would work splendidly with little modification and the ability to solve any reasonable challenge. The first were all removed from some military, arcane academy, and temple for some individual reasons. The latter are, what else, a band. Have one factotum spend feats on melee, another spend feats on magic, and the last spend skills to cover some necessities. For the parts, one factotum again focuses on melee, another may focus on songs, a third can gain spells and slots, and a fourth (or third, replacing song focus) does a more skilled route.

[Steward]

I probably would only do it for a class that's relatively easy to play. I find Monks pretty frustrating but if it was Bards, Rangers, Psionic Warriors, or something like that I'd enjoy it.

[Curmudgeon]

There are lots of Rogue options, and the standard Thieves' Guild makes for the solid connection you want for the PCs.

In a Forgotten Realms setting you can grab the Dark Creature template in Cormyr: The Tearing Of The Weave, then pay of that LA +1 for 3,000 XP at class level 3. Or if LA buyoff isn't allowed, Rogue 20 is a dead level anyway. That's a much better choice than paying the expensive entry requirements for Shadowdancer to get its version of Hide in Plain Sight.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

That sort of novelty might be interesting for a one shot, but unless it was factotum I think I'd get bored of the monotony.

[Curmudgeon]

That sort of novelty might be interesting for a one shot, but unless it was factotum I think I'd get bored of the monotony.
Why just Factotum? Bards can have different functions: ranged combat, bardic song buffs, spellcasting. Rogues can focus mainly on skills, on ranged combat, on melee, and on Use Magic Device (wands, scrolls) for spells. Rangers have obvious splits between ranged and melee combat, have spellcasting, and also there are both the wild shape and Mystic Ranger variants. But just because each party member might be focused on a specialty area to be better at it, that doesn't keep any of them from doing something else. Bards and Rangers can use different spells than those for their specialty role. A Rogue who's maxed out skills for Knowledge Devotion combat benefits is also going to be able to simulate Bardic lore pretty well, too, and the Rogue who's maximized Use Magic Device can also sneak attack.

[HunterOfJello]

Bard, Factotums, Ardents, or Beguilers would work.


A group of 4 beguilers would be great. They could take out enemies by dousing them in so many illusions and enchantments that they can't use any of their senses to resist the beguiler's actions. Arcane Disciple will allow 1 or 2 of them to grab a few offensive and summoning spells for some damage dealing.

[Silva Stormrage]

I would go with a dread necromancer party.

One could focus on divine metamagic with southern magician

One could focus on fear effects

One on meat shields (Somewhat more than the others)

One could focus on whatever he wants.

Dread Necromancers work well together because they all can heal themselves fairly well (negative energy burst works well when there are four of them :smallbiggrin:) Enough undead to be an army of a small country and they are still full casters on top of that.

[Fawkes]

Four white mages? It'll never work!

[Amphetryon]

I'd also be all over the Dread Necro party.

Alternately:
One melee Ranger.
One archery Ranger.
One Wild Shape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger).
One Sword of the Arcane Order Ranger.

Sure, it's fairly hamstrung, but it does *technically* fill the typical iconic roles (if barely).

[Talya]

I'd also be all over the Dread Necro party.

Alternately:
One melee Ranger.
One archery Ranger.
One Wild Shape Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger).
One Sword of the Arcane Order Ranger.

Sure, it's fairly hamstrung, but it does *technically* fill the typical iconic roles (if barely).

The melee ranger is not going to see much use there, but yes, all rangers would work.

Mystic Wildshape Ranger w/Sword of the Arcane Order, Master of Many Forms
Mystic Ranger - Ranged w/sword of the Arcane Order
Mystic Ranger - Beloved of Valarian (Celestial Charger can cast cleric spells)
Urban Ranger - features from cityscape web enhancement - skillmonkey




Really though, the all bard group would rock harder than anything else, in every possible way.
Single-class Savage bard, inspire courage/DFI optimized w/Jack of All Trades&Bardic Knack
Bard/Warchanter melee combat optimized
Bard/Sublime Chord
Bard/Ur-Priest

Ensure you vary your spell selection.

[Zonugal]

I'd probably do something like four bards.

It wouldn't matter how we customized our builds because few things are cooler than a D&D rock band.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Four (Savage) Bards, all four going Sublime Chord.

Silverbrow Human, two flaws, DFI, Melodic Casting, Wild Cohort, Point-Blank Shot, Song of the Heart, Precise Shot by 6th.

Human or Strongheart (Water) Halfling, two flaws, Dragontouched, Draconic Heritage (Battle), DFI, Wild Cohort, Song of the Heart, Melodic Casting by 6th.

Human or Strongheart (Water) Halfling, two flaws, Dragontouched, Draconic Heritage (Copper), DFI, Wild Cohort, Song of the Heart, Melodic Casting by 6th.

Human or Strongheart (Water) Halfling, two flaws, Wild Cohort, Melodic Casting, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Song of the Heart, Rapid Shot by 6th.

All four should have a Badge of Valor before 3rd level. That's four characters and four (Warbeast) Riding Dogs with +1 to attack and damage and +3d6 energy damage at 1st level, which goes up to +3 attack/damage and +9d6 energy damage at 2nd, and +4 attack/damage and +12d6 energy damage at 3rd.

[Talya]

Draconic Heritage (for changing your DFI energy type) requires taking a sorcerer level.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Bard could easily do it.

The 'caster' goes Sublime Chord

The 'healbot' actually takes Combat Medic which, as a capstone, lets him spontaneously cast Heal out of his 6th level spell slots. He also picks up more buffs to handle the buffbot role as well.

The 'tank' takes War Chanter (you can get in straight Bard, it just takes a couple more levels)

The 'skillmonkey' takes a PrC with Trapfinding. Doesn't really matter which one, to be honest.

[Knaight]

I'd probably go 4 warblades, and start imitating Arthurian Myth. Or, if there was heavy use of White Raven, Chinese Myth.

[El Dorado]

Barbarian. Crushing enemies, lamentation hearing, etc.

[GoatBoy]

What about four incarnates? Melee and skills are covered... I dunno if they have the ability to lock down multiple targets, though.

[Talya]

Bard could easily do it.

The 'caster' goes Sublime Chord

The 'healbot' actually takes Combat Medic which, as a capstone, lets him spontaneously cast Heal out of his 6th level spell slots. He also picks up more buffs to handle the buffbot role as well.

The 'tank' takes War Chanter (you can get in straight Bard, it just takes a couple more levels)

The 'skillmonkey' takes a PrC with Trapfinding. Doesn't really matter which one, to be honest.

I'd take ur-priest over combat medic, despite the lack of spontaneous healing (hell, give your bard levels cure spells.)

Also, one of your bards needs to be single-classed, no PrC...most versatile and useful bard there is (though not ht emost powerful.) While it can't exactly do trapfinding...it is very good at every skill in the game.

[Vortling]

I have to say I'm surprised at the breakdown of the suggestions so far. I had forgotten that Dread Necro was tier 3, and ToB classes only received a few mentions. I had thought ToB would be the premier example for this, along with bards. Keep them coming, I'm interested to see all the thoughts and builds.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Draconic Heritage (for changing your DFI energy type) requires taking a sorcerer level.

Dragontouched:
Benefit: You gain the dragonblood subtype. You gain... In addition, you can select draconic feats as if you were a sorcerer of your character level.

[Talya]

I have to say I'm surprised at the breakdown of the suggestions so far. I had forgotten that Dread Necro was tier 3, and ToB classes only received a few mentions. I had thought ToB would be the premier example for this, along with bards. Keep them coming, I'm interested to see all the thoughts and builds.

No lone TOB class can perform every role, although if you allow Arcane Swordsage, you have a shot at it. Of course, arcane swordsage is about Tier 0, so it shouldn't be allowed.

[ranagrande]

Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, or Warmage.

All four of them become Rainbow Servants.

[SamBurke]

Pathfinder has a few... The alchemist comes quickly to mind, and all-summonses would work as well.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, or Warmage.

All four of them become Rainbow Servants.

Dread Necro finds it difficult to qualify for the alignment prerequisites since they are nongood and Rainbow Servants require Good alignment.

Not that they need it, mind you, since all four of them going Necropolitian would be enough to ensure unlimited healing.

[ranagrande]

Dread Necro finds it difficult to qualify for the alignment prerequisites since they are nongood and Rainbow Servants require Good alignment.

Not that they need it, mind you, since all four of them going Necropolitian would be enough to ensure unlimited healing.

Rainbow Servant does not require Good alignment. It requires "Any nonevil and nonchaotic." So there is nothing to prevent a team of Neutral Dread Necromancer/Rainbow Servants.

Necropolitan is a good fix for healing, but it doesn't make them Tier 1 gods like Rainbow Servant does.

[Zaq]

It's the obvious solution and has been presented quite a few times already, but I've had personal experience playing in an all-Bard party, and let me tell you, it is awesome. We all felt quite different and didn't step on each others' toes much at all. Also, our GM was just astounded at the variety of tricks we could pull out of nowhere even at level 3. ("HOW did you pull off a 35 on your Gather Info check when none of you are trained in it?!" "Well, y'know. Bards.")

I think a party of all Ardents (they're T3, right? Or are they T2? I forget) would be interesting. It would be entirely possible to build them in such a way that they wouldn't overlap where they didn't want to.

[Elric VIII]

Why has no one mentioned Binder?

It's about 6 classes in one and you can even all PrC into Knight of the Sacred Seal for different vestiges, if you want.

[Endarire]

All-Bard party with a different flavor of Dragonfire Inspiration on each. They eventually all take Sublime Chord.

[Xtomjames]

All Artificer, All Truenamer, or Warlock could work. I could also see Warmages working well, possibly also: Favored Souls, Ardents, Psions, Swordsages, Warblades, Hexblades and Swashbucklers, and Totemists,

[Gnaeus]

Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, or Warmage.

All four of them become Rainbow Servants.

4 beguilers shouldn't all become Rainbow Servants. 2 certainly, maybe 3, but you clearly want at least 1 Shadowcraft Gnome.

[Amphetryon]

The melee ranger is not going to see much use there, but yes, all rangers would work.

Mystic Wildshape Ranger w/Sword of the Arcane Order, Master of Many Forms
Mystic Ranger - Ranged w/sword of the Arcane Order
Mystic Ranger - Beloved of Valarian (Celestial Charger can cast cleric spells)
Urban Ranger - features from cityscape web enhancement - skillmonkey




Really though, the all bard group would rock harder than anything else, in every possible way.
Single-class Savage bard, inspire courage/DFI optimized w/Jack of All Trades&Bardic Knack
Bard/Warchanter melee combat optimized
Bard/Sublime Chord
Bard/Ur-Priest

Ensure you vary your spell selection.My thinking with the all Ranger group was the melee Ranger would PrC out into something with a different enough focus to be unique in role from the Wildshape Ranger, who doesn't come into his own until at least 5th level. With that goal, the overlap is minor, though the melee Ranger may still be The Weakest Link(tm).

[Berenger]

http://www.abload.de/img/partybalancepfs0.jpg

[Amphetryon]

http://www.abload.de/img/partybalancepfs0.jpg

Nah, they went Red Box Set-style. It's 13 Dwarves, a Halfling, and a Magic-User DMPC.

[Curmudgeon]

I had thought ToB would be the premier example for this, along with bards.
I don't know why you'd think that. Those classes are pretty much just about melee combat. They don't have good options for ranged fighting, skillmonkey jobs (no trapfiding), healing (Martial Spirit stance just isn't adequate), or spellcasting (no Use Magic Device for any of them).

[Vortling]

I don't know why you'd think that. Those classes are pretty much just about melee combat. They don't have good options for ranged fighting, skillmonkey jobs (no trapfiding), healing (Martial Spirit stance just isn't adequate), or spellcasting (no Use Magic Device for any of them).

Because they have a wide variety of options within their specialties, meaning each player can have their own niche and set of tricks. That and I specifically stated the DM wasn't going to throw you into highly inappropriate situations, so covering all the classic roles wasn't meant to be a consideration. Perhaps I did not communicate that terribly clearly in the OP.

[ranagrande]

4 beguilers shouldn't all become Rainbow Servants. 2 certainly, maybe 3, but you clearly want at least 1 Shadowcraft Gnome.

Yes, obviously in that case we do want a Shadowcraft Mage. If you're going with the Dread Necromancers or Warmages though, all four of them need to become Rainbow Servants.

And if that group still isn't powerful enough, you can take it up another notch and use Commoners!

Maybe something like

Commoner/Beastmaster
Commoner/Deepwarden
Commoner/Merchant Prince
Commoner/Vigilante

The first several levels would suck, but it would be fun.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

(Whisper) Gnome, Beguiler 4/ Shadowcraft Mage 5/ Beguiler 11, two flaws and moderate taint for Heighten Spell, Earth Sense, Earth Spell, Versatile Spellcaster, and Spell Focus: Illusion by 4th level. Gain Net of Shadows via Advanced Learning, which cast as though from a 3rd level spell slot with Versatile Spellcaster, Heighten Spell, and Earth Spell, it acts as if it's a 4th level spell. I'm pretty sure this is the earliest you could gain Shadowcraft Mage via Beguiler.

(Whisper) Gnome, Beguiler 5/ Mage of the Arcane Order 10 (7)/ Beguiler 5 (8), at least one flaw for Arcane Preparation, any metamagic feat, and Cooperative Spell by 5th level. You get Silent Spell at Beguiler 5, but you need a metamagic feat prior to gaining Cooperative Spell. Ideally you can gain a flaw at 5th level to get Cooperative Spell, qualifying via Silent Spell. This leaves your 3rd level feat and one more flaw (gained at 3rd) available for Obtain Familiar and Improved Familiar, preferably waiting for an Imp, Quasit, or Pseudodragon.

Illumian (Krau/anything), Beguiler 1/ Rainbow* Servant 10/ Beguiler 9, preferably adapting Rainbow Servant to another creature such as the Rakshasa, Phoenix, or Barghest. Two flaws for Versatile Spellcaster, Improved Sigil: Krau, and either Heighten Spell or Sanctum Spell at 1st level. This serves to qualify early as well as granting early access to the next higher level of spells, so you'll still have 9th level spells at 20th level if it follows the intended 6/10 progression.

If Rainbow Servant follows a 10/10 progression, then the fourth character should be a copy of the third. Otherwise, a Beguiler 5/ Mindbender 1/ Beguiler 14 for a dedicated skillmonkey and party face would be a suitable fourth character. A Beguiler 6/ Prestige Bard 6/ Beguiler 8 would also be suitable, particularly if the MotAO uses (Draconic) Polymorph on his outsider familiar and if one or more characters picks up Wild Cohort and/or Leadership.

[Curmudgeon]

... and I specifically stated the DM wasn't going to throw you into highly inappropriate situations, so covering all the classic roles wasn't meant to be a consideration. Perhaps I did not communicate that terribly clearly in the OP.
DM consideration still doesn't let you completely ignore missing roles. Is the DM going to avoid damage-dealing when you don't have any healing capability? Are the enemies who can see the party crossing the plains going to ignore their bows and just wait for the PCs to walk into melee? I can see the DM avoiding a "traps all the time" fest like Tomb of Horrors, and undeadpalooza (as you stated in your first post), but having no traps at all, nothing with a lock, all treasure in plain sight, and no undead ever isn't D&D; it's a welfare system where you get some number of gp and XP just for showing up. :smallsigh:

So no, I guess you didn't communicate the DM limitations very clearly.

The standard for all D&D encounters is that fully 5% of them should be of "overpowering" difficulty (Dungeon Master's Guide, page 49): the PCs should run away or expect to die. Not having the usual party capabilities would normally mean a higher percentage of encounters should be avoided. Having the DM guarantee instead that all situations will be of appropriate difficulty ─ despite party limitations ─ makes this toddler-safe D&D. :smallfrown:

To me, much of the appeal of the game is the challenge. Restricting the party to a single class, representing a group of like-minded characters, should increase the challenge as the PCs struggle to handle situations that would normally be covered by characters with levels in other classes. But then to be told that the challenge will be minimized is just ... disappointing. Oh, well.

[Elitarismo]

Fortunately, traps and locks are both not dealt with by the Rogue and effectively dealt with via other classes and methods anyways.

[Silva Stormrage]

Oh another good party would be wilders.

Wilder 1: Wilder going into thrallherd
Wilder 2: Wilder going into thrallherd
Wilder 3: Wilder going into thrallherd
Wilder 4: Wilder going into thrallherd

:smallbiggrin: An all thrallherd party would be really funny to watch as they send their minions in to die in flocks

[smashbro]

I personally like the idea of an all bard party since a) I play a bard and b) they can cover the basics of magic, fighting, and healing pretty easily.


We've also joked about doing an all rogue round, which i'd like, have a dual scythe wielding dwarf all ready for combat :smallwink:


Aside from that, a lot of classes would get old quickly, but I could even go for fighter, because there are a few different tracks you can choose between (dual wielding, mounted combat, ... probably other stuff)

[Elitarismo]

Given the parameters, an all Bard party would be best. Anything else would turn out to be too one dimensional.

[Vortling]

DM consideration still doesn't let you completely ignore missing roles. Is the DM going to avoid damage-dealing when you don't have any healing capability? Are the enemies who can see the party crossing the plains going to ignore their bows and just wait for the PCs to walk into melee? I can see the DM avoiding a "traps all the time" fest like Tomb of Horrors, and undeadpalooza (as you stated in your first post), but having no traps at all, nothing with a lock, all treasure in plain sight, and no undead ever isn't D&D; it's a welfare system where you get some number of gp and XP just for showing up. :smallsigh:

So no, I guess you didn't communicate the DM limitations very clearly.

The standard for all D&D encounters is that fully 5% of them should be of "overpowering" difficulty (Dungeon Master's Guide, page 49): the PCs should run away or expect to die. Not having the usual party capabilities would normally mean a higher percentage of encounters should be avoided. Having the DM guarantee instead that all situations will be of appropriate difficulty ─ despite party limitations ─ makes this toddler-safe D&D. :smallfrown:

To me, much of the appeal of the game is the challenge. Restricting the party to a single class, representing a group of like-minded characters, should increase the challenge as the PCs struggle to handle situations that would normally be covered by characters with levels in other classes. But then to be told that the challenge will be minimized is just ... disappointing. Oh, well.

Then let me see if I can clear a few things up. A game like this would be run one of two ways: Either the players pick a highly versatile class (bard, beguiler, dread necro, factotum, etc) and the game proceeds as "normal" for D&D with versatility of the class picking up the slack or the players pick a non-versatile class (fighter, rogue, monk, etc) and the game necessarily adjusts in style to the class picked. The specialty situations wouldn't disappear completely but they would definitely be lessened. A lack of blaster, healer, meatshield, skillmonkey, or trapfinder simply shouldn't cause the game to grind to a halt when the missing role's specialty appears.

I apologize if you're disappointed about that, but I believe we have very different ideas about where the fun comes from in D&D. :smallsmile:

[Flickerdart]

I've entertained this notion myself. It's fairly trivial to fill the four "classic" roles, so the party wouldn't exactly need to be coddled in order to succeed, even with lower-tier options. People who require specific class levels and none other to solve given problems are just not creative enough with what they do with the rest of their build.

[Gnaeus]

(Whisper) Gnome, Beguiler 4/ Shadowcraft Mage 5/ Beguiler 11, two flaws and moderate taint for Heighten Spell, Earth Sense, Earth Spell, Versatile Spellcaster, and Spell Focus: Illusion by 4th level. Gain Net of Shadows via Advanced Learning, which cast as though from a 3rd level spell slot with Versatile Spellcaster, Heighten Spell, and Earth Spell, it acts as if it's a 4th level spell. I'm pretty sure this is the earliest you could gain Shadowcraft Mage via Beguiler.

(Whisper) Gnome, Beguiler 5/ Mage of the Arcane Order 10 (7)/ Beguiler 5 (8), at least one flaw for Arcane Preparation, any metamagic feat, and Cooperative Spell by 5th level. You get Silent Spell at Beguiler 5, but you need a metamagic feat prior to gaining Cooperative Spell. Ideally you can gain a flaw at 5th level to get Cooperative Spell, qualifying via Silent Spell. This leaves your 3rd level feat and one more flaw (gained at 3rd) available for Obtain Familiar and Improved Familiar, preferably waiting for an Imp, Quasit, or Pseudodragon.

Illumian (Krau/anything), Beguiler 1/ Rainbow* Servant 10/ Beguiler 9, preferably adapting Rainbow Servant to another creature such as the Rakshasa, Phoenix, or Barghest. Two flaws for Versatile Spellcaster, Improved Sigil: Krau, and either Heighten Spell or Sanctum Spell at 1st level. This serves to qualify early as well as granting early access to the next higher level of spells, so you'll still have 9th level spells at 20th level if it follows the intended 6/10 progression.

If Rainbow Servant follows a 10/10 progression, then the fourth character should be a copy of the third. Otherwise, a Beguiler 5/ Mindbender 1/ Beguiler 14 for a dedicated skillmonkey and party face would be a suitable fourth character. A Beguiler 6/ Prestige Bard 6/ Beguiler 8 would also be suitable, particularly if the MotAO uses (Draconic) Polymorph on his outsider familiar and if one or more characters picks up Wild Cohort and/or Leadership.

I would also consider Chameleon or Swiftblade for that 4th slot. Chameleon would add a lot of crafting love and some general utility. Swiftblade is good for going first or casting more spells faster, and either one can gish a little bit if needed.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Yes, obviously in that case we do want a Shadowcraft Mage. If you're going with the Dread Necromancers or Warmages though, all four of them need to become Rainbow Servants.I would strongly disagree with this assessment, at least for Dread Necromancers.

Dubious reinterpretation of alignment prerequisites aside, they've already GOT arcane and divine spells, right out of the box. It doesn't give them nearly the flexibility that, say, it does a Warmage (whom, I agree, needs it just to be functional).

Sample Party:

1) Scarecrow. Dread Necro/Dread Witch. Uses Southern Magician for DMM Persist with Fell Frighten Aura of Terror and Divine Power earned through the Pride domain via Arcane Disciple. He has a full BAB, undead HD, made in a Desecrated area (there's a ring to do this) by one of his cohorts after he turned level 8 who had Corpsecrafter. He simply walks up and makes people take a steep DC on the will save or Panic. Those who make it, he's a full BAB beatstick who can also pull off stuff like Enervation if he wants.

2) Minionmancer. Dread Necro/Pale Master. While at first seeming like the 'weak sister' of the group, when he gets his Cohort (a bard with DFI optimization), he really starts shining. Well, and his Pale Master capstone to give him unlimited zombies that are as big as he cares to find. He could, technically, zombify the Tarrasque. He boosts up everyone's minions through his pet bard, and has a not-so-small army of them himself.

3) Enervationist. Arcane Thesis (Enervation) does some sick things, yo. Moreso with enough Slaymates. He is this party's equivalent of a 'blastomancer', only he deals in negative levels. Oh, and Fell Drain Kelgore's Grave Mist by level 4 is lulzworthy.

4) Dread Necro/UrPriest. Why not Rainbow Servant? Simple... more turn undead attempts. This guy has more TU to blow on DMM than you can shake a stick at. He's the 'buffbot' of the group, because every morning he does the Reach/Chain/Persist shenanigans which also hits a fair few of their more important pets as well.

In conclusion:

Their pets are often singly more powerful than most 20th level tanks, either via template stacking, Animate Dread Warrior, or simply buff-stacking with IC+DFI+Song of Legion+GMW+MV+(whatever the hell else he wants to put on them).

[sreservoir]

I think an all-binder party would be quite fun: straight binder (possibly adding KotSS or scion of dantalion) can do whatever the hell it wants on a given day; binder/chameleon takes that one step further albeit at the cost of actual binding; a binder/ur-priest (/anima mage adapatation, or tenebrous apostate), qualifying for the spellcraft with keeper of the forbidden lore.

damn, now I want to.

[flabort]

I'd solve the problem of not being varied the way I solve all problems:
ACFs.
I might have to go find some Dungeon Magazines to actually have a credible chance of surviving all having the same class, or dip into homebrew, but with enough use of ACFs, even using some to qualify for others, even an all rogue or all barbarian party should be able to cover all the classic roles. All 200 of them :smalltongue:, should you count all the classic sub-roles, alt-roles, and unnecessary roles (Like the party cook. Can't go without good cooking).

[Dr.Epic]

All cleric party, but each with a different god. That'd be interesting to roleplay.

[sreservoir]

I'd solve the problem of not being varied the way I solve all problems:
ACFs.
I might have to go find some Dungeon Magazines to actually have a credible chance of surviving all having the same class, or dip into homebrew, but with enough use of ACFs, even using some to qualify for others, even an all rogue or all barbarian party should be able to cover all the classic roles. All 200 of them :smalltongue:, should you count all the classic sub-roles, alt-roles, and unnecessary roles (Like the party cook. Can't go without good cooking).

that might be a problem for some classes, but then there are classes which can be someone entirely different every day.

[flabort]

that might be a problem for some classes, but then there are classes which can be someone entirely different every day.

The problem is finding enough ACFs to do that with, yes. Some classes don't have any ACFs (Disappointing in those classes :smallannoyed:) without homebrew, but otherwise, it should be possible.

Fun fact: I always wanted to find out if, using the "I use ACF X to qualify for ACF Y" method, it was possible to use ACF Y to qualify for Z, which is used to qualify for M, which lets me take N, etc., until I qualify for ACF R, giving me the last ability needed to have every feature I had before taking any ACFs, plus a few more.
And then I just keep taking that loop, over and over, using the features I net on the side to get other ACFs, to get every ACF, ever, and be better than pun-pun at first level. :smalltongue:

Probably not, even with Dungeon Magazine.

[Lans]

The melee ranger is not going to see much use there, but yes, all rangers would work.

Mystic Wildshape Ranger w/Sword of the Arcane Order, Master of Many Forms
Mystic Ranger - Ranged w/sword of the Arcane Order

Mystic ranger with SotAO is Tier 1 for 10 levels, so I'm not sure it counts

[sreservoir]

Mystic ranger with SotAO is Tier 1 for 10 levels, so I'm not sure it counts

mystic ranger is lightning warrior lite in E6. it only flaw beyond that is that its spells stop abruptly at 5th, and it doesn't have a familiar.

[big teej]

This is probably not the question you're expecting. I'm not asking if it's possible (I know it is, even without any DM fiat), I'm asking if you'd play in a game with this setup and what you'd play.

Every player plays the same class.
Tier 3s or lower
No multiclassing
One prestige class (can vary across players so if you had monks and one wanted tattooed monk and one wanted drunken master this would be allowed)
The players all must have a common background connection, but it doesn't have to be class based (ie if you're all monks you don't have to have trained under the same master or if you're all rogues you don't have to be from the same thieves guild)
The DM agrees to play to the tier of the class and avoid situations the class can't cover well (ie traps all the time dungeon for an all crusader party or undeadpalooza for an all rogue party)

What class would you want to play in this game? What background connection would you suggest to the rest of the party?

I would actually LOVE to play an all Knight game and see where people take it.

[Vortling]

I would actually LOVE to play an all Knight game and see where people take it.

That's pretty much the point of why I'd run a game like this. See where people take the concept. See if I can get players to run with it.

[ranagrande]

I would strongly disagree with this assessment, at least for Dread Necromancers.

Dubious reinterpretation of alignment prerequisites aside, they've already GOT arcane and divine spells, right out of the box. It doesn't give them nearly the flexibility that, say, it does a Warmage (whom, I agree, needs it just to be functional).
Dubious reinterpretation? The Dread Necromancer must be nongood. The Rainbow Servant must be nonevil. A neutral alignment satisfies both of them.

Your party would probably be more fun to play, as my suggestion amounts to a team of Tier 1s. For sheer power and versatility though, the Dread Necromancer/Rainbow Servant reigns supreme, and will outperform most of your builds in their chosen field. (The Scarecrow is the sole exception.)

[maximus25]

I kind of wanna play a party like this...

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Your party would probably be more fun to play, as my suggestion amounts to a team of Tier 1s. For sheer power and versatility though, the Dread Necromancer/Rainbow Servant reigns supreme, and will outperform most of your builds in their chosen field. (The Scarecrow is the sole exception.)

I would respectfully disagree. The Minionmancer does minions and minion buffing FAR better than a Rainbow Servant does. The UrPriest build does about the same thing the Rainbow Servant does... with twice the Turn Attempts for Divine Metacheese. The only one it might outperform would be the Enervationist, and even then, it probably STILL beats out a Rainbow Servant at negative level generation.

[Treblain]

I'd be interested in seeing a four-man party consisting of a Factotum Iaijitsu-user, a Factotum Greater Manyshot Archer, a Factotum/Chameleon, and a Factotum who has a preposterous amount of Inspiration Points due to taking nothing but Font of Inspiration.

[Lans]

4 Divine Minds!

[Zaq]

4 Divine Minds!

Back when we did the Divine Mind E6 Iron Chef, there were some comments to the effect of putting all of the entries in a party together. Weirdly enough, they seemed to complement each other pretty well and would probably actually work. Then again, the Divine Mind is less awful in E6. Still not good, but there are more ways to make up for its shortcomings.

[Thiyr]

I'd definitely go with a four-warlock party. Yes, there will be a bit of overlap, but a bit of redundancy is actually good for this imo.

One focuses on eldritch claw and getting shadowpounce if possible.

One focuses on ranged blasting/debuffing, primarily through eldritch chain + essences. Potentially using curse of despair to curse things as well, if the opportunity and means arise. As for PrCs...well, can't think of anything offhand, but this is probably the guy to take mindbender for mindsight.

One acts as BFC, making sure nobody can see anything at early levels, upgrading to chilling tentacles and wall of perilous flame. Alternatively, don't bother with low-level BFC, and just prep yourself for later levels to be the ultimate in battlefield control by going Iot7fv

One acts as an all-purpose generalist, picking up the various intimidate tricks available to help lock down people feared by warlock 2, minions via the dead walk, and whatever else happens to be needed. This will be the guy who carries most of the wands/staves that everyone makes. Probably a good idea to go chameleon to get that floating crafting feat for later.

As for the connection, I'd just toss the whole alignment requirement personally, and have the party be four people who walked into the middle of a construction site while walking home, and have find an outsider who offers them great power in order to fight a secret war against invading mind-slug aliens.

Or, if we don't feel like ripping off Animorphs today (...and now I kinda want to play in that game), you could easily do the "cabal of likeminded individuals out for power". Doubly fun if one or two people have second thoughts after the deed is done. Or have one warlock be a wellspring of magical power who is syphoning power off into the other three party members in order to equalize his power, as otherwise his head will explode or some such nonsense.

[NNescio]

1. Cleric (Cleric)
2. Clericzilla (Fighter +)
3. Clositered Cleric with Spell and Magic domains. (Wizard)
4. Clositered Cleric with Kobold domain. (Rogue +)

Classic 4-man party, all clerics.

[Thiyr]

1. Cleric (Cleric)
2. Clericzilla (Fighter +)
3. Clositered Cleric with Spell and Magic domains. (Wizard)
4. Clositered Cleric with Kobold domain. (Rogue +)

Classic 4-man party, all clerics.

Classic not reading the bolded part of the first post in which he says tier 3 or below D: I mean, that was kinda the point, i think. We all -know- the cleric can do that.

[Zaq]

Hmmm. Just how low in the tiers can we go? I think all Rogues would work pretty well (UMD covers the magic, a group of all stealthy characters can actually be stealthy, and skills will get you pretty darn far if you're creative), as long as they're smart and pick their battles. Rogues are classic T4 . . . can we come up with a solid T5 that would do it? It'd be harder, of course, but that's kind of the point.

[ranagrande]

How low can we go? I already posted how I would do it with Commoners. :smalltongue:

[Zaq]

You mentioned how it could be done with PrCs. While I don't object to PrCs being part of it, the Commoners were not what was contributing.

[Amphetryon]

Hmmm. Just how low in the tiers can we go? I think all Rogues would work pretty well (UMD covers the magic, a group of all stealthy characters can actually be stealthy, and skills will get you pretty darn far if you're creative), as long as they're smart and pick their battles. Rogues are classic T4 . . . can we come up with a solid T5 that would do it? It'd be harder, of course, but that's kind of the point.

Mystic Fire Knight Paladin of the Arcane Order (arcane magic)
Halfling Paladin/Cavalier (mounted combatant)
Elf Paladin with all RotW substitution levels (ranged combatant)
Paladin of Freedom/Divine Crusader with Trickery Domain (party sneak)
With an all-paladin party (and a unicorn for an alternate class feature) healing is not a major concern.

[ranagrande]

You mentioned how it could be done with PrCs. While I don't object to PrCs being part of it, the Commoners were not what was contributing.
Oh, OK. In that case, let's go with all Commoners and only commoners!

The Tank
Human Commoner 6; feats: Combat Expertise(level 1), Combat Reflexes(Human bonus), Improved Trip(take a flaw), Exotic Weapon Proficiency(spiked chain)(level 3), Deft Opportunist(level 6)

Healer/Buffer/Ranged Attacker
Elf Commoner 6; feats: Arcane Schooling(Bard)(level 1), Point Blank Shot(take a flaw), Precise Shot(take two flaws!), Rapid Shot(level 3), Far Shot(level 6)

The Caster
Human Commoner 6; feats: Arcane Schooling(Wizard)(level 1), City Slicker(Human bonus), Magic Device Attunement(take a flaw), Weapon Finesse(level 3), Practiced Spellcaster(level 6)

The Healer
Human Commoner 6; feats: Magical Training(level 1), Precocious Apprentice(Human bonus), Arcane Disciple (Healing Domain)(take a flaw), Touch of Healing(level 3), Practiced Spellcaster(level 6)

[Mockingbird]

I'd choose Chameleon and Factotum. Every class for the price of two! :D

[The Gilded Duke]

I wonder if it could be done with Fighter:

Zhenatrum Soldier / Imperious Command Fighter
Dungeoncrasher Fighter
Boomerang Daze Fighter
Shocktrooper Fighter

Is there anyway to pick up search as a class skill? Then one of them could use planar touchstone to pick up Trapfinding through the Kobold Domain. Maybe have them all be raptoran to help with mobility.

Each of them has the class skill of Adamantine Greataxe to deal with any troublesome doors or walls or floors in the way. Use various out of battle healing methods.

[sreservoir]

I wonder if it could be done with Fighter:

Zhenatrum Soldier / Imperious Command Fighter
Dungeoncrasher Fighter
Boomerang Daze Fighter
Shocktrooper Fighter

Is there anyway to pick up search as a class skill? Then one of them could use planar touchstone to pick up Trapfinding through the Kobold Domain. Maybe have them all be raptoran to help with mobility.

Each of them has the class skill of Adamantine Greataxe to deal with any troublesome doors or walls or floors in the way. Use various out of battle healing methods.

sure, with dragontouched and draconic heritage. fighters have lots of feats, right?

[Lans]

You can get trapfinding with shape soulmeld and the open least chakra

You can get Int mod skills with a feat from kingdoms of Kalamar

[Tzevash]

I suggest a party composed by four powerful were-turtle monks.

:smallbiggrin:

[Flickerdart]

I suggest a party composed by four powerful were-turtle monks.

:smallbiggrin:
Um...Ninjas. :smallconfused:

[Tzevash]

Um...Ninjas. :smallconfused:

Yeah, sorry, I was considering only core classes. :smallbiggrin:

[Jack_Simth]

Really though, the all bard group would rock harder than anything else, in every possible way.
Single-class Savage bard, inspire courage/DFI optimized w/Jack of All Trades&Bardic Knack
Bard/Warchanter melee combat optimized
Bard/Sublime Chord
Bard/Ur-Priest

Ensure you vary your spell selection.
Savage Bard / Ur-Priest; Ur-Priest has a pesky Fort save requirement. You could also drop a level into Mindbender (which isn't a bad idea, as it opens up the possibility of Mindsight, and of course, Telepathy is really handy for combat strategems).

[Devmaar]

If I were to do this I'd probably use Binder