Item Creation

[hobbitkniver]

My character is going to be a level 10 character cleric and in an effort to not overshadow the others, I'd like to try some magic item making. You may ask, "So why are you playing a cleric if you don't want to be OP?" Well, these guys have never heard of any class that wasn't in AD&D. We literally have a cleric, fighter, wizard and rogue. (Don't worry, the wizard doesn't even know what optimization is).

So anyways, how bad of a feat is Craft Magic Arms and Armor?

How much XP do you lose from this and is it worth it?

What exactly do you save from making it yourself?

If I make too many items, how quickly will I fall behind the rest of the party?

[sreservoir]

My character is going to be a level 10 character cleric and in an effort to not overshadow the others, I'd like to try some magic item making. You may ask, "So why are you playing a cleric if you don't want to be OP?" Well, these guys have never heard of any class that wasn't in AD&D. We literally have a cleric, fighter, wizard and rogue. (Don't worry, the wizard doesn't even know what optimization is).

So anyways, how bad of a feat is Craft Magic Arms and Armor?

it wastes a feat slot. that's more or less it.


How much XP do you lose from this and is it worth it?

you'll be behind by maybe a level, and then the xp system's self-correction kicks in, and you won't be behind anymore. the feat slot is worth more than the xp. but you're a cleric in an unoptimized game, it won't matter too much.


What exactly do you save from making it yourself?

money, more or less. and you can pick out what you want instead of relying on what you want already existing.


If I make too many items, how quickly will I fall behind the rest of the party?

immediately. it's hard to fall behind too much, though; about a level is probably the worst it'll ever get.

note that, as a cleric, you are easily capable of getting yourself level-drained, then crafting and using restoration to bring you back to full xp.

[hobbitkniver]

Is the gold really worth it? The idea of being behind in XP at all is bothering me.

[Pigkappa]

So anyways, how bad of a feat is Craft Magic Arms and Armor?

It's not a bad feat, though it's less useful than Craft Wondrous Items. If the campaign is time-based (that is, if you're always in a hurry) it could be a bad choice because crafting magic items takes a lot of time.



How much XP do you lose from this and is it worth it?

You lose very little XP and it is worth it.



What exactly do you save from making it yourself?

Uhm, well, half the money?
So, say you and your fighter friend need +1 swords. You build yours for 1000 gp. You ask him 1500 gp to make him one (he agrees since it would cost him 2000 otherwise). So you now have a +1 sword and you paid it 500 instead of 2000.



If I make too many items, how quickly will I fall behind the rest of the party?

Not quickly. You will often level up one session after them and catch up with the bonus XP for being a level lower. If you really make all of your items, at higher levels you will be often be 1 level lower than them, but you'll also have twice their money. And it's definitely worth it.


Consider Craft Wondrous Items before Craft Magic Arms and Armor.



note that, as a cleric, you are easily capable of getting yourself level-drained, then crafting and using restoration to bring you back to full xp.

No, he's not. From his post, it's evident that the character is not a thought exercise but will effectively be played.

[Pigkappa]

Is the gold really worth it? The idea of being behind in XP at all is bothering me.

Gold is really, really worth it. With crafting feats, at level 6 you can have a +2 Wis bonus, +2 Str bonus, +2 Cha bonus, +1 weapon, +1 armor, +1 shield, +2 to saving throws, and some more money (assuming you don't build items for your companions, and you should do that).

Without those feats, you can have a +2 Wis bonus, +2 Str bonus, +2 Cha bonus, and I don't think you have enough left for masterwork items. You will just level up one session later than your friends. I think that's worth the +1 weapon, +1 armor, +1 shield, +2 to saving throws, and some more money. And this gets much more evident at higher levels.

[hobbitkniver]

Consider Craft Wondrous Items before Craft Magic Arms and Armor.


No, he's not. From his post, it's evident that the character is not a thought exercise but will effectively be played.

He will in fact be used in less than a week. So what does Craft wondorous Items encompass? Rings, necklaces, ect? What makes it better?

[sreservoir]

He will in fact be used in less than a week. So what does Craft wondorous Items encompass? Rings, necklaces, ect? What makes it better?

rings are its own class of item, but wondrous items is everything that doesn't have its own feat. this is quite a lot of stuff.

[Pigkappa]

He will in fact be used in less than a week. So what does Craft wondorous Items encompass? Rings, necklaces, ect? What makes it better?

Nope, rings require "Forge Ring". Craft Wondrous Items is about everything that's not a wand, ring, weapon, armor, scroll, stave. The items which grant +2/+4/+6 to a stat are wondrous items. The item which gives a bonus to saving throws is a wondrous item. Boots are wondrous items, the items to Fly are wondrous items, and a lot of utility items are wondrous items too. Here is a list: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm

[Urpriest]

He will in fact be used in less than a week. So what does Craft wondorous Items encompass? Rings, necklaces, ect? What makes it better?

Rings are their own thing. Look in the DMG, they separate the items into types corresponding to which feats you need to craft them. All of the stat boosting items are Wondrous, which is the main draw there.

[Zaq]

A note of caution: by RAW, everyone's right about the XP system's "self-correction" kicking in and letting you level up pretty quickly after the party does. That said, most of the GMs I've played with never bother to calculate individual XP, preferring to just say "Yeah, you get 350 XP apiece." By the book, they're supposed to calculate individual XP, but a lot of GMs just don't bother, especially if you're getting XP from anything other than rigid applications of the CR system. You may want to check and make sure that the GM is going to give you individual XP . . . if not, that's not an automatic dealbreaker, but it's something to consider.

[hobbitkniver]

A note of caution: by RAW, everyone's right about the XP system's "self-correction" kicking in and letting you level up pretty quickly after the party does. That said, most of the GMs I've played with never bother to calculate individual XP, preferring to just say "Yeah, you get 350 XP apiece." By the book, they're supposed to calculate individual XP, but a lot of GMs just don't bother, especially if you're getting XP from anything other than rigid applications of the CR system. You may want to check and make sure that the GM is going to give you individual XP . . . if not, that's not an automatic dealbreaker, but it's something to consider.

Yeah, this is a good point. At this point, I'm not sure if he'll just say, "Everyone is level 11 now"

[Cicciograna]

If you plan to craft magic items for your comrades, ask your DM if he agrees to allow the optional rules described in this article (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a): basically this allows other people to provide a magic crafter the necessary XP to create magic items for them, instead of requiring the crafter himself to provide them. So if your fellow fighter wants a +1 sword, he provides XP and gold and you provide the feat. This way you won't lag behind your fellow party members if you craft items for them too.

[Xtomjames]

I say take Craft Wondrous Item instead (you can craft essentially anything with this and it's almost universal).

Ask your DM to swap the XP cost out for gold cost (as per PF) and then you can use anything of equivalent value to pay into the crafting of an item (jewelry, silverware, rough jewels/gems, and general precious metals).

Craft Arms and Equipment is alright though, crafting wands might be a bit more practical though.

[Qwertystop]

I say don't worry about falling behind in level. If they're not optimized, you can just optimize a bit more to make up for the missing level(s) as long as its just a few. Anyway, their unoptimization might mean you don't even need to compensate for the missing level, as they'd be a couple levels behind in effectiveness.

[Ashram]

How non-core are you willing to go, and how deeply into item creation are you willing to delve? If you're willing to go the distance, we can enlighten you about the wonderful world of item creation cost reducers.

[sreservoir]

How non-core are you willing to go, and how deeply into item creation are you willing to delve? If you're willing to go the distance, we can enlighten you about the wonderful world of item creation cost reducers.

skill and class/alignment are right in DMG and give fairly substantial reductions.

[hobbitkniver]

How non-core are you willing to go, and how deeply into item creation are you willing to delve? If you're willing to go the distance, we can enlighten you about the wonderful world of item creation cost reducers.

Any book, cheese me up.

[Gavinfoxx]

There are LOTS of interesting, relevant threads for you to look into if you want to cheese it up...

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041207a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041214a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041221a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20041228a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050104a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050111a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050118a
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a

Remember that you can pay people to provide the spell (at appropriate caster level), and presumably pay people for access to their expertise in the form of other things -- maybe even item creation feats if you are willing to do a large amount of the work and put your own lifeforce into it...

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872242/Experience_is_a_River
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11066.0
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149464
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=350.0
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=4400.0
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148101
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7274.0
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19870158/The_3.5_Weapon_Special_Abilities_thread
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19859922/The_3.5_Armor_and_Shield_Special_Abilities_thread
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12795.0

[Sith_Happens]

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872242/Experience_is_a_River

I'd just like to single out this thread, as it explains in detail just why you shouldn't be afraid to pay the XP costs for crafting.