The Invisible Man

[ExemplarofAvg]

My group is thinking of doing a one shot, super powers/super natural type campaign, so we have stuff like a flesh golem, vampire, werewolf, etc.

Now the only question I wonder is, is there a way to determine the Level Adjustment of something that just has invisibility like the Invisible Man. We've looked at such sources as
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/invisibilityGreater.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#invisibility
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/invisibleStalker.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/phantomFungus.htm

We can't seem to get a handle on what kind of level adjustment it would be to be naturally invisible.

If all else fails, I want my mummy, so no huge rush on an answer, but it will still end up as something curious to know I think.

[DeAnno]

A Pixie (MM) has Greater Invisibility at will, Flight, and a bunch of stats, and it has an LA of only +4 (though it's generally considered on of the better high LAs out there). A normal human with GI at will would probably rate +2 based on that.

[Urpriest]

The Dark Template (Tome of Magic/Cormyr Champions of the Weave) gives a big bonus to Hide and Hide in Plain Sight, which is a good approximation.

[ExemplarofAvg]

The Dark Template (Tome of Magic/Cormyr Champions of the Weave) gives a big bonus to Hide and Hide in Plain Sight, which is a good approximation.

How much of a LA is the template?

[Greenish]

How much of a LA is the template?+1 LA. Of course, you still have to put points into Hide and beat the check, but at higher levels that's probably better than mere invisibility.

[ExemplarofAvg]

+1 LA. Of course, you still have to put points into Hide and beat the check, but at higher levels that's probably better than mere invisibility.

Well the Invisible Man had what could be considered Permanent Greater Invisibility.

[Little Brother]

This one? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKdxd718WXg)

And the best invisible character I could make would be, beyond a pixie, a Primordial Half-Giant, templated to your pleasure. Unseelie would net you a good +8 to Cha and such, and still have the at-will invisibility for LA 1, and +1 CL on any SLAs you have.

[ExemplarofAvg]

This one? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKdxd718WXg)

And the best invisible character I could make would be, beyond a pixie, a Primordial Half-Giant, templated to your pleasure. Unseelie would net you a good +8 to Cha and such, and still have the at-will invisibility for LA 1, and +1 CL on any SLAs you have.

No, not that one, per se. I'm not worried about templating it, just the level adjustment of Natural Invisibility as a whole.

[Lord.Sorasen]

No, not that one, per se. I'm not worried about templating it, just the level adjustment of Natural Invisibility as a whole.

I think the problem here is that level adjustment isn't a science. I'd personally agree with the above that +2 seems right considering the pixie. But then, the Invisible Man (are we speaking of the HG Wells edition?) couldn't even really do greater invisibility. He couldn't turn invisible anything but his own person: Even things he ate or drank were visible for a time.

How much levels worth of exp would it take a wizard to craft enough wands of greater invisibility to last however many battles a day forever? Of course it'd be less than that because you don't have a choice in how to expend it... But it could be a start.

[ExemplarofAvg]

I think the problem here is that level adjustment isn't a science. I'd personally agree with the above that +2 seems right considering the pixie. But then, the Invisible Man (are we speaking of the HG Wells edition?) couldn't even really do greater invisibility. He couldn't turn invisible anything but his own person: Even things he ate or drank were visible for a time.

How much levels worth of exp would it take a wizard to craft enough wands of greater invisibility to last however many battles a day forever? Of course it'd be less than that because you don't have a choice in how to expend it... But it could be a start.

Yup, Wells is where I was pulling from. I was only thinking of it being Greater in the sense of an attack not cancelling invisibility. and Natural in the sense that it can't be dispelled. Hmm, a starting point is better than nothing.

[Funkyodor]

A permanent Dust of Disappearance effect would be better than a permanent Greater Invisibility effect, and could be described as a magic item creation accident gone "wrong". Just an idea.

[Cog]

and Natural in the sense that it can't be dispelled. Hmm, a starting point is better than nothing.
I agree; it should really be an (Ex) ability. Bypassing True Seeing automatically might not be right... but concealment or requiring a Spot check or something might be reasonable.

[NNescio]

A permanent Dust of Disappearance effect would be better than a permanent Greater Invisibility effect, and could be described as a magic item creation accident gone "wrong". Just an idea.

Or an Invisible Spell accident...

(...like say, when combined with Resurrection.)

[RndmNumGen]

Or an Invisible Spell accident...

(...like say, when combined with Resurrection.)

:smallconfused:

Hmm... I wonder what kind of metamagic shenanigans you could pull off with this... Is there any way to turn Resurrection into a Ray? If so, you might be able to raise two people at once!

[Elboxo]

A few levels in warlock, maxed move silently/hide and darkstalker would give you 24/7 invisibility ( as the spell ), quiet movement, being undetectable by things with tremor sense and the likes

[CockroachTeaParty]

Hmm... that's interesting to think about. The whole 'invisible only while completely naked' thing, where if they wear clothes you can still basically see them.

Such an ability would probably make said person immune to sneak attacks, since you couldn't see his vital areas clearly, and possibly provide some kind of miss chance or bonus to Hide...

[Treblain]

I would give the character Greater Invisibility at-will, but if they attack, they can be located by enemies (unless they roll really high on Move Silently or something). They still get a 50% miss chance from total concealment, but enemies know where they are unless they move and make a Move Silently check again.

[Zaq]

:smallconfused:

Hmm... I wonder what kind of metamagic shenanigans you could pull off with this... Is there any way to turn Resurrection into a Ray? If so, you might be able to raise two people at once!

Let's see. Ocular Spell requires that the spell have a casting time of 1 full round or less, and that it be a ray spell or a spell with a target other than personal. Resurrection has a target other than personal, but its casting time is 10 minutes. Rapid Spell will get that down to 1 minute, but that's not good enough for Ocular Spell. Can you apply Rapid Spell twice to get it down where you need it? I don't think you can, but if I'm wrong, that would be a place to start. If you can get Resurrection on the Sorcerer spell list (tricky, but I'm sure someone can do it), you could use Arcane Spellsurge to get it down to 9 rounds (making a second application of Rapid Spell totally unambiguously get it down to 1 round, assuming that a second application is in fact legal, which I'm not certain is the case). Hmm.

Now, that said, Raise Dead would work, since it's got a casting time of 1 minute. Arcane Spellsurge would get that down to 9 rounds, and Rapid Spell would put that down to 1 round, which makes it a valid target for Ocular Spell. Revivify would work right out of the box. You'd need to get some cross-pollination of spell lists, of course, and Arcane Spellsurge only works on arcane spells, but if you can find a way to hack the rez spell of choice onto the Sorcerer spell list, you're golden. That you have Rapid Metamagic should go without saying.

I do so love Ocular Spell. What else gives you eyebeams that can heal the dead?

[ericgrau]

Pixie is the best match for the ability, and it's one of the biggest appeals of its 4 LA. The thing about an ability like this is that it is epic at low levels and almost useless at very high levels. It's best combined with abilities that are the reverse, such as ability score boosts. Otherwise it's hard to figure out an appropriate LA as it varies by level. Since this is a one shot the issue is moot for you and you can set it as appropriate to the party. IMO 2 LA for party level 4-11, or 1 LA for party level 12-16. 9-13 is a bit fuzzy though, so use your best judgement depending on the campaign style. Outsiders, casters and certain other select foes makes the ability less useful. Or some things can partially defeat it like tremorsense or even a high listen modifier plus blind-fight .

[marcielle]

Strangely, a Dark Moon Disciple monk holding a large umbrella ALWAYS has total concealment. Not really related to topic but this is the only invisibility thread I've ever actually seen. Max hide + move silently. Bring along umbrella. Blamo. You are effectively invisible even when punching someone in the face. The obvious downside of this is it requires 3 levels of monk.



Also...:mitd:

[NNescio]

Strangely, a Dark Moon Disciple monk holding a large umbrella ALWAYS has total concealment. Not really related to topic but this is the only invisibility thread I've ever actually seen. Max hide + move silently. Bring along umbrella. Blamo. You are effectively invisible even when punching someone in the face. The obvious downside of this is it requires 3 levels of monk.



Also...:mitd:

Does the umbrella itself have total concealment?