View Full Version : Rebuking elementals

Fouredged Sword
2011-09-24, 04:34 PM
Ok another set of rules questions for the forum.

Say I have an evil cleric of air and fire, with those respective domains, giving him 3+cha rebuke undead attempts, 3+cha rebuke air elemental attempts, and 3+cha rebuke fire elemental attempts.

1) do these control pools track apart or together? Meaning, can I have up to my cleric level is total rebuked undead and elementals, can I have my HD in undead AND elementals, OR can I have my HD in undead AND EACH type of elementals?

2) can the domain granted turn attempts power DMM?

3) can they power devotion feats?

4) Do these rebuke attempts carry over to all things with that elemental subtype? Being able to rebuke dragons would be cool.

I have an idea for a character who is a cleric of all the elements and runs around with elementals of each type. The concept will function much better if I can have 4 pools of elementals.

2011-09-24, 09:36 PM
1) You've got seperate pools for all elementals.
2) No, DMM specifically states you need to spend turn undead not turn elementals.

Don't know about the others though.

2011-09-25, 12:07 AM
[edit] P.S. This can probably be moved to the D&D 3e/3.5e/d20 subforum; you'll likely get more helpful advise there.

1.) They track seperately in every case I've seen. That is, while your DM may limit it to your HD in rebuked creatures total for balance/sanity reasons, the rules state that you have 20 HD in undead, two Efreeti, and a Very Young Green Dragon under your control all at once.

2.) No; the Divine Metamagic feat specifically states Turn Undead attempts, and only abilities that are equilivant to Turn Undead (Rebuke Undead and Destroy Undead) will work with Divine Metamagic.

3.) As far as I am aware, Devotion feats specify what turning powers them. The Travel Devotion feat specifies Turn/Rebuke Undead attempts, so you cannot spend Rebuke Fire Creatures attempts to power it. Oddly enough, it looks like all the elemental devotion feats use Turn/Rebuke Unead attempts to power them, rather than the domain-granted elemental rebuking attempts. (except Water, which doesn't allow you to recharge it with any turnings)

4.) Yes, you can. Remember, though, that you still need to be twice the level of the HD before you can successfully command them; they simply rebuke sit there otherwise. So you need to be 20th level before you can take command of your first (10 HD) Efreeti.

One last thing, remember that the Extra Turning (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#extraTurning) feat grants you extra uses for all your turnings, not just Turn Undead. Thus, if you have Destroy Undead, Rebuke Undead, Turn Undead, and the four elemental domains, the the single Extra Turning feat will grant you +4 turning attempts to each ability.

The first three are generally acquired through Cleric X/Dread Necromancer 1/Sacred Exorcist 1, with a Cleric ACF for Destroy Undead rather than Turn Undead, Dread Necromancer (Heroes of Horror base class) specifically giving you Rebuke Undead, and Sacred Exorcist (Complete Divine PrC) specifically giving you Turn Undead. You'll need to look around for prestige classes that give you two free domains for the other two elements, though.

2011-09-25, 10:44 AM
Races of Stone has feats specifically powered by Rebuke Earth creatures but otherwise, it's Turn Undead and equivalents.

And yes, Turn and Rebuke elemental creatures effects any creatures with the appropriate subtype.

2011-09-25, 01:44 PM
I have an idea for a character who is a cleric of all the elements and runs around with elementals of each type. The concept will function much better if I can have 4 pools of elementals.

The other stuff has been covered, so as to this idea, your problem will be finding ways to get the additional domains *and* progress effective cleric level for Domain power advancement.

There are a *ton* of Prestige Classes that add Domains (Divine Disciple 4, from the Player's Guide to Faerun and Contemplative 1 from Complete Divine would be the quickest route, I suspect, assuming that Sovereign Speaker from Faiths of Eberron isn't available), but none of them actually progress effective Cleric level for Domain advancement.

As a result, a Cleric 5 (of Obad-Hai w/ Air and Fire), Divine Disciple 4 (adding Earth), Contemplative 1 (adding Water) would count as a 5th level cleric for commanding Air and Fire creatures, a 4th level cleric for commanding Earth creatures and a 1st level cleric for commanding Water creatures, which is pretty much counter to the point of having all those command/rebuke pools.

(AFAIK, the only PrC to advance Domain powers is the Paragnostic Apostle from Complete Champion, and it doesn't grant any additional Domains...)

This pretty much nukes your concept, from an official standpoint, although you might be able to find some 3rd party feat that allows you to pick up an additional Domain without leaving the Cleric class, or a 3rd party PrC that allows one to add a Domain or two while stacking Cleric level with PrC level for Domain advancement, or a feat like Natural Bond or Practised Spellcaster that instead gives +4 effective cleric level for Domain power advancement (up to a maximum of character level).

If you can't finagle such an option, you can try to get around these limitations a bit by taking the Improved Turning feat (+1 effective cleric level for any of these turn/rebuke pools, PHB), picking up an Amulet/Phylactery of Turning (DMG), a special Flametouched Holy Symbol (Faiths of Eberron? Eberron Campaign Setting?) and some other trinkets that you can probably find by googling a Turning Guide online. (And if you *do* find a way to workaround the effective Cleric level / added Domains conundrum, these items will make you terrifyingly more effective, as they increase your effective cleric level, and thus, your total HD commanded!)

IMO, Air and Earth are the two best options, mechanically, if you can't work out a means to advance effective cleric level for domain progression while gaining access to two additional Domains, but selecting Earth/Fire, or Air/Fire, allows you to at least Turn those elemental subtype creatures that you can't Command.

There are also a ton of other command/rebuke options out there. Three different Domains (Ooze, Slime, Thirst, from places like the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Sandstorm, etc.) give rebuke/command of Oozes. At least two give rebuke/command of Cold creatures (Cold and Winter). One gives rebuke/command of Plant creatures (Plant). Others give rebuke/command of reptilian animals (Scalykind), constructs (Warforged) or spiders/arachnids (Spider). The Initiate of Nature feat, from the Players Guide to Faerun, IIRC, or the Nature 'domain' from Oriental Adventures gives rebuke/command of plants *and* animals.

Certain in-game critters or situations can also turn almost anything into a rebuke/command-able plant critter (yellow musk creeper?) or construct (dust creature template, raggomoffyn), and the Manual of the Planes has some elemental creature templates that might be useful for the Air/Earth/Fire/Water rebuke/commander.

For a Drow cleric, there's also the terrible cheese of taking the Alternate option in Drow of the Underdark which replaces Turn/Rebuke undead with the ability to Rebuke/Command spiders as a cleric four levels higher, which, combined with Improved Turning taken as your 1st level Feat, would allow a 1st level Drow Cleric with this feature to count as a 6th level Cleric for command pool purposes, and to have three 2 HD spider swarms or 2 HD medium monstrous spiders as her gumbies... But that way lies madness. Do not provoke the GM by going there. :)

2011-09-25, 02:08 PM
Planar Touchstone(Catalogues of Enlightenment) will get you the domain power of one of the elemental domain you didn't grab, dip Contemplative for the other one and then focus on Cleric the rest of the way. There, done. :smallsmile:

If you want something hilarious and different, Blessed of Tem-Et-Nu lets you rebuke and command hippos as undead, so you can advance normal rebuke without any trouble. :smallwink: