Shapeshifting based character help?

[Mockingbird]

Hi, I'm currently playing in a Pathfinder/3.5 campaign, and I'm playing a Changeling, with the classes Hexblade and Warshaper. I'm using a revision for hexblade, find it here-
https://docs.google.com/View?id=dgsxfnsp_6hc8d69gj
Here are my stats, after my warshaper bonuses:
STR 19
CON 20
DEX 14
WIS 14
CHA 16
INT 13


My levels are Hexblade 4/Warshaper 2.
I'm planning on moving into Cabinet Trickster after I finish Warshaper, putting an ability point into Dexterity at 8th level so I qualify for the Quick Change feat.
My feats are Deceitful, Power Attack, Empower Curse (found in the pathfinder revision for hexblade mentioned above) and Multiattack. I want to see if my DM allows me to rework my Deceitful and possibly power attack feats into something else. I know Deceitful would change to Persona Immersion so I'd qualify for Cabinet Trickster.

Any ideas how to help me with my character? I'd like to be a little more use to the party, because the warmage is pretty much the only effective person.

[Kaje]

Which option for arcane bond are you using?

[Mockingbird]

Which option for arcane bond are you using?

Dark Companion. A bonded object doesn't really fit, because I don't carry manufactured weapons.

[Mockingbird]

Actually, scratch the Cabinet Trickster levels, I probably will be taking this feat instead-

http://dnd.savannahsoft.eu/feat-3182-improved-minor-shapechange.html

[Mockingbird]

Anyone?
Also, I will be going with the levels in Cabinet Trickster, because that feat doesn't seem to exist in the book. :smallconfused:

[Urpriest]

Definitely rework Deceitful into something else. Consider getting some other forms of save-debuffing to stack with that you already have, such as Blackguard or Paladin of Tyranny, or some use of Intimidate. Really, you've got a fairly solid setup. What sort of interpretation is your DM using for Warshaper natural weapons? How many can you grow?

[Mockingbird]

Definitely rework Deceitful into something else. Consider getting some other forms of save-debuffing to stack with that you already have, such as Blackguard or Paladin of Tyranny, or some use of Intimidate. Really, you've got a fairly solid setup. What sort of interpretation is your DM using for Warshaper natural weapons? How many can you grow?

I can grow as many as I want, but I can only attack with three in a full-attack action. This is not including with feats such as Rending Claws, or when I get 6 BaB next level for another attack.

[Urpriest]

I can grow as many as I want, but I can only attack with three in a full-attack action. This is not including with feats such as Rending Claws, or when I get 6 BaB next level for another attack.

Hmm ok. Are you planning to get Rending Claws? If so then you definitely want Improved Unarmed Strike, since otherwise you won't be able to get your iteratives without giving up a claw attack. Otherwise you don't need it, since you can grow two wing attacks and a bite or something and still hold a weapon.

[aazru]

Take a look at Mindspy. It has natural synergy with Cabinet Trikster to the point that many call them two parts of the same prc.

[Mockingbird]

Hmm ok. Are you planning to get Rending Claws? If so then you definitely want Improved Unarmed Strike, since otherwise you won't be able to get your iteratives without giving up a claw attack. Otherwise you don't need it, since you can grow two wing attacks and a bite or something and still hold a weapon.

I am planning on getting Rending Claws, and Improved Natural Attack for 5d6 damage. I usually do 1 gore, 1 bite and 1 pincer for 3d6, but with INA and Rending Claws, it would boink that up another 2d6.
Also, Natural attacks count as light weapons, so I wouldn't need Improved Unarmed Strike. My plan is to change Deceitful and Power Attack to Quick Change (changeling version) and Persona Immersion, then at ninth level get the other quick change feat (with my ability point at 8th level), take Cabinet Trickster for five levels, and then maybe go back to hexblade. Then I'll be able to change shape as a free action, allowing me to change and full attack in the same round.

[Mockingbird]

Take a look at Mindspy. It has natural synergy with Cabinet Trikster to the point that many call them two parts of the same prc.

I don't know how often I'll be using the mind reading ability, I mostly just want the improved change shape. I may take levels in Master Spy from Pathfinder, but I will look at Mindspy.

[Urpriest]

I am planning on getting Rending Claws, and Improved Natural Attack for 5d6 damage. I usually do 1 gore, 1 bite and 1 pincer for 3d6, but with INA and Rending Claws, it would boink that up another 2d6.
Also, Natural attacks count as light weapons, so I wouldn't need Improved Unarmed Strike.

That sentence doesn't follow.

You do realize that natural attacks don't get iteratives, right? A creature with BAB +20 and a bite attack gets one bite attack per full attack, and that's it. You only get iterative attacks with weapons or Unarmed Strikes. So if you've got two claws and a bite, you get three attacks, no matter your BAB. If your BAB is +6 and you held a weapon in one of your claws you would get four attacks (two with the weapon, one claw, one bite), and you couldn't rend, unless your DM lets you attack with a claw that's holding a weapon. If instead you had Improved Unarmed Strike, you get all five attacks, and can rend.

[Mockingbird]

That sentence doesn't follow.

You do realize that natural attacks don't get iteratives, right? A creature with BAB +20 and a bite attack gets one bite attack per full attack, and that's it. You only get iterative attacks with weapons or Unarmed Strikes. So if you've got two claws and a bite, you get three attacks, no matter your BAB. If your BAB is +6 and you held a weapon in one of your claws you would get four attacks (two with the weapon, one claw, one bite), and you couldn't rend, unless your DM lets you attack with a claw that's holding a weapon. If instead you had Improved Unarmed Strike, you get all five attacks, and can rend.

Really? Then I'll take Improved Unarmed Strike instead of rending claws, most likely.

[aazru]

I don't know how often I'll be using the mind reading ability, I mostly just want the improved change shape. I may take levels in Master Spy from Pathfinder, but I will look at Mindspy.

If you take Mindspy you will be using it all the time :smallbiggrin: it buffs detect thoughts: changes cone effect to sphere, affects more targets, speeds up the reading part, makes mainteining it a free action and adds nice bonuses to a combat oriented char. Add the mind tricks from Cabinet Trikster... :smallamused:
Anyway I can suggest feat rogue with changeling sub levels.

[Mockingbird]

If you take Mindspy you will be using it all the time :smallbiggrin: it buffs detect thoughts: changes cone effect to sphere, affects more targets, speeds up the reading part, makes mainteining it a free action and adds nice bonuses to a combat oriented char. Add the mind tricks from Cabinet Trikster... :smallamused:
Anyway I can suggest feat rogue with changeling sub levels.

Would feat rogue really go with my combat shapeshifting-based character? The mage and I are pretty much the damage dealers. The fighter doesn't do jack, he just hides behind his tower shield and complains that he wants to be a dragon shaman (he wants to be exactly like the mage >:( )

[Mockingbird]

By the way, this is my first campaign, so I'm trying to keep things simple. :smallbiggrin:

[Mockingbird]

Should I just change Hexblade to fighter? I mean, hexblade doesn't really fit, and I need lots and lots of feats for this to work.. o_o

[aazru]

Should I just change Hexblade to fighter? I mean, hexblade doesn't really fit, and I need lots and lots of feats for this to work.. o_o

That is why i suggested feat rogue(Martial Rogue (UA, p 58) lose sneak attack and gain bonus feats as a fighter) with changeling sub levels(Changeling Rogue (RoE, p 122) add one knowledge skill to class list, 10 skills per level).

[Mockingbird]

That is why i suggested feat rogue(Martial Rogue (UA, p 58) lose sneak attack and gain bonus feats as a fighter) with changeling sub levels(Changeling Rogue (RoE, p 122) add one knowledge skill to class list, 10 skills per level).

Does this get full BaB progression?
Also, lols, what does UA stand for?
/stupidattack
This is an edit, I found it in UA. I dunno, I don't want to rebuild my character, this is for further levels.

[Mockingbird]

Any pathfinder ideas? I know that pathfinder classes are more powerful than 3.5.

[Mockingbird]

Guess not then. I'll probably go with the mindspy and cabinet trickster, then.

[Tokuhara]

Guess not then. I'll probably go with the mindspy and cabinet trickster, then.

My 2c:

I would have done the following:

Wildshaping Martial Ranger (Unearthed Arcana/Complete Warrior) 4/Warshaper (Complete Warrior)6/Master of Many Forms (Complete Adventurer) 10

Here's why:

You give up Ranger's spells and weapon style for Feats and Wildshape. Combined with your disguise ability, this lets you transform into any animal or humanoid. Later on, you grow weapons. But with Master of Many forms, any living creature is available for your shapeshifting. That means, "I want to become a 20-headed cryohydra who has tentacles, a gore, and wings." Totally doable

[Mockingbird]

My 2c:

I would have done the following:

Wildshaping Martial Ranger (Unearthed Arcana/Complete Warrior) 4/Warshaper (Complete Warrior)6/Master of Many Forms (Complete Adventurer) 10

Here's why:

You give up Ranger's spells and weapon style for Feats and Wildshape. Combined with your disguise ability, this lets you transform into any animal or humanoid. Later on, you grow weapons. But with Master of Many forms, any living creature is available for your shapeshifting. That means, "I want to become a 20-headed cryohydra who has tentacles, a gore, and wings." Totally doable

How many times can you wildshape per day?
Also Warshaper only has 5 levels. I'm trying to improve on my current character, not make a new one, but I'll look into this.

[Kaje]

You need 5 levels of Ranger to get wild shape. My fave build for that is Mystic Ranger 5 / Master of Many Forms 3 / Warshaper 5 / MoMF 7.

You can wild shape 1/day at Ranger 5, and an additional time for each level of MoMF. Each will last you five hours, but you also get to switch among different forms an unlimited number of times during that period of time, thanks to warshaper 5.