Dragon-themed Cleric...just how Dragon-y can I be?

[Maho-Tsukai]

As the title asks...I am looking to make a dragon-themed cleric for the rare non-evil campaign if it ever comes up and want to know if there are any good divine-based PrCs for worshipers of draconic deities or otherwise have a dragon-y fluff. In addition, I want some suggestions on appropriately dragon-y domains that are actually good choices and perhaps even some useful dragon-y spells to prepare. I already know about, and plan on taking the Rebuke Dragons ACF provided I can get a houserule to make it count as Turn/Rebuke Undead for divine feats...Also, assume dragonwrought stuff is off the table due to cheese-level.

So, as Bearington Bearman is the king of Bear-ness, can any of you help me make his counterpart in the most dragon-y cleric possible?

[CockroachTeaParty]

Well, Draconomicon has a few things in it, such as the Dracolyte prestige class. It's pretty crappy, and rather bland, but it does get you a wyrmling dragon to take care of.

There's also... the Singer of Concordance from Races of the Dragon, which is a full-casting cleric PrC for worshipers of Io. I've not given it a close look, but it is dragon-y.

[Rausdower]

Take Vassal of Bahamut from the Book of Exalted Deeds if you like getting paid as you level.

[Maho-Tsukai]

Dosen't that class have it's own spell list and spell progression? If so it's out as I plan on being a cleric and losing 5-10 caster levels is out of the question.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

A dragonblooded dragonborn creature might be pretty dragon-y. Also Dragon Cohort (or dragon leadership I forget what it's called) might be worth a look.

[Runestar]

Dragon magic has a few dragonblooded races, as well as one prc which nets you wings and a breath weapon, but you lose 2 cleric spellcasting lvs, IIRC.

Races of dragon has a dragonblooded cleric ACF.

[Zaq]

You might not have the full Rites of Draconic Cheese putting your Sorcerer spell progression way ahead of where it should be, but a Dragonwrought kobold is still about as dragony as you get, since they're, y'know, capital-D Dragons. WIS boost, too, if you go venerable (and why wouldn't you?).

Admittedly, I hate kobolds (at least, scaly kobolds. Fuzzy kobolds are fine), but then, I also hate WotC's draconic flavor in general, the delightfully perverse half-dragon template excepted. That doesn't mean they're not a good option, though. Sure, you lose your first level feat, but you're a friggin' Cleric. You could take Toughness for every single feat and be a valuable and functioning member of the party.

[JaronK]

Even if you can't be Dragonwrought... be a Dragonborn Kobold. Worship Bahamut. Be a Cleric/PrC Paladin and take Draconic Mount, so you ride a dragon.

JaronK

[Godskook]

Things that make one seem draconic:
-lots of natural attacks
-incredibly beefy
-arcane spellcasting(maybe cleric)
-breath weapon
-flight
-frightful presence
-blindsense

Of those, a few are 'native' to the cleric chassis, but most require at least a little work or can be hand-waived since you're already planning on being a full-casting cleric. The breath weapon is probably among the easiest to replicate, via Dragonfire Channeling, which gives you respectable breath weapon damage for a good portion of the day if you spec for it. Not sure on the others and I'm tired, so I'll try to post back later.

[Essence_of_War]

Does a Dragonborn Raptoran keep its raptoran wings? If so, this is a great way to get basically two dragonborn aspects.

It's not raw, but you could use the pathfinder dragon disciple that gets 8/10 casting, and ask your DM if you could re-crunch the casting to advance your divine spellcasting. You're talking about losing 2 caster levels, which makes this prestige class way weak, but you'd end up as a Half-Dragon Dragonborn Raptoran.

You'll have wings, blind senses, natural attacks, and a breath weapon.

[Alleran]

Even if you can't be Dragonwrought... be a Dragonborn Kobold. Worship Bahamut. Be a Cleric/PrC Paladin and take Draconic Mount, so you ride a dragon.
Are there rules somewhere for adapting the lycanthrope template to a dragon, thus creating a were-dragon? I know that they existed in previous editions of D&D.

EDIT: Oh, and add in as many Draconic grafts as you can afford.

[Talya]

Does a Dragonborn Raptoran keep its raptoran wings? If so, this is a great way to get basically two dragonborn aspects.

Ah, good question.

Common sense dictates yes. Everything about the raptoran's wings (including the jump bonus at low levels) is logically a movement mode. Nevertheless, some people will point out differences in it being (Ex) and try to convince you that they'd lose their flight progression, so you're best to clear it with your DM. My ruling would be, hell yes they keep their wings and everything related to them.

(As an added bonus, raptoran wings work significantly better than dragonborn wings - gaining flight a level earlier, and 33% faster.)

[Runestar]

Are there rules somewhere for adapting the lycanthrope template to a dragon, thus creating a were-dragon? I know that they existed in previous editions of D&D.

EDIT: Oh, and add in as many Draconic grafts as you can afford.

In 3e, were-dragons are basically song dragons, who are especially notable for their fondness of adopting human form wherever they go.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Ah, good question.

Common sense dictates yes. Everything about the raptoran's wings (including the jump bonus at low levels) is logically a movement mode. Nevertheless, some people will point out differences in it being (Ex) and try to convince you that they'd lose their flight progression, so you're best to clear it with your DM. My ruling would be, hell yes they keep their wings and everything related to them.

(As an added bonus, raptoran wings work significantly better than dragonborn wings - gaining flight a level earlier, and 33% faster.)

"Speed: You retain your original base land speed, as well as any
other modes of movement possessed by your original race. Other
racial traits related to speed or movement, such as the dwarf’s
ability to move at full speed in medium or heavy armor, are lost."

Emphasis added by me.

I would say that the dragonborn would keep the wings and the flight speed but nothing else that the wings offer.

[Morph Bark]

A dragonblooded dragonborn creature might be pretty dragon-y. Also Dragon Cohort (or dragon leadership I forget what it's called) might be worth a look.

A dragonborn draconic half-dragon half-dragon half-dragon half-dragon [...] dragon is a RAW-legal character.

Make the dragon part a kobold just because.

[tonystony]

what version? (because 3.5 doesn't have dragon born) generally clerics are more of a celestial/dwarvy/necromancer kinda thing, draconic classes are more inspiring warlord (dragon born) and arcane-type things (like fire soul genasi make great draconic incarnation epic destinys. There are dragon disciples, dragon born, half-dragons, draconic incarnations... etc. Id look into a dragon bloodline if you're a cleric, its a 3.5 unearthed arcana-type thing. its pretty cheap so some dms haven't heard about it or don't allow it. Their are several dragon-based bloodlines. Check this out: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.html

[Mockingbird]

Take Dragon Disciple
In pathfinder, it's in the Advanced Player's Guide
In D&D3.5, it's in DM's Guide

[JaronK]

what version? (because 3.5 doesn't have dragon born)

They're in Races of the Dragon.

JaronK

[lorddrake]

Take Dragon Disciple
In pathfinder, it's in the Advanced Player's Guide
In D&D3.5, it's in DM's Guide

It will kill a lot of spellcasting for the cleric. I'd agree with those guys saying some dragon ancestry instead of PrC, because most aren't made for the divine guys, but for the arcane ones

[Hyfigh]

So, what has been brought up so far?

Dragonwrought dragonblooded kobold taking levels in Dracolyte, and taking the feat Dragon Cohort. That's a dragon that has a dragon charge and a dragon friend/pet.

Can clerics get access to the dragon calling spells (they're in spell compendium and I forget the names. They function like the planar ally spells)? If they can, that would add the ability to summon dragons. I think that may top Bearrington... :smallamused:

Edit: Oops. Forgot to mention that the cleric needs polymorph (or it's betters) to become a full on dragon. I suppose that alone could replace the need for dragonwrought kobold stuff. This would be a character that can turn into a dragon instead of just being a dragon at it's base. Polymorph to a dragon smaller than your cohort so you can ride him.

[Aneurin]

Y'know, just to throw this out here and all, because I can't believe no-one has actually suggested it yet.

Play a dragon.

They get cleric spells as arcane spells, and inherent spell casting at higher HD. You can play one based on the Monster Manual profile as the lower-end age categories all have level adjustment listed, and if you get to epic levels and want to advance your HD further, the formula for calculating unlisted LA is +1 LA per age category.

If you really want the whole divine spell casting thing, you might be able to persuade your DM to convert that sorcerer spell casting to Favoured Soul spellcasting instead. Or maybe Mystic.

What's the downside to huge stat boosts to everything except dexterity, full BAB on HD and natural armour, all good saves, and the ability to take Strafing Breath (Dragonlance Campaign Setting) with a high fly speed and a cone breath weapon. The only nuisance is the Level Adjustment, unless you really want lots of class levels in which case I suppose the RHD could irritate you. But what's a little irritation compared to several tons of flying, fire-breathing lizard?

[hex0]

"Speed: You retain your original base land speed, as well as any
other modes of movement possessed by your original race. Other
racial traits related to speed or movement, such as the dwarf’s
ability to move at full speed in medium or heavy armor, are lost."


That is a stupid rule, honestly.

Dracolyte isnt superb but that is about all you get as a divine caster.

Platinum Knight is more for paladins...and you would be better off taking prestige paladin. (and personally if I were to take the class Id enter through pious templar, but that is another day)

Most dragon stuff is for arcane casters. :smallannoyed:

[MesiDoomstalker]

what version? (because 3.5 doesn't have dragon born) generally clerics are more of a celestial/dwarvy/necromancer kinda thing, draconic classes are more inspiring warlord (dragon born) and arcane-type things (like fire soul genasi make great draconic incarnation epic destinys. There are dragon disciples, dragon born, half-dragons, draconic incarnations... etc. Id look into a dragon bloodline if you're a cleric, its a 3.5 unearthed arcana-type thing. its pretty cheap so some dms haven't heard about it or don't allow it. Their are several dragon-based bloodlines. Check this out: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.html

Everything but the bloodlines (which are pretty darn weak as printed) is 4e. This is 3.5 forums and, yes, 3.5 has Dragonborns. The main difference is its a template for Bahamauts chosen, not a standard race of a fallen empire.

[Acanous]

Y'know, just to throw this out here and all, because I can't believe no-one has actually suggested it yet.

Play a dragon.

They get cleric spells as arcane spells, and inherent spell casting at higher HD. You can play one based on the Monster Manual profile as the lower-end age categories all have level adjustment listed, and if you get to epic levels and want to advance your HD further, the formula for calculating unlisted LA is +1 LA per age category.

If you really want the whole divine spell casting thing, you might be able to persuade your DM to convert that sorcerer spell casting to Favoured Soul spellcasting instead. Or maybe Mystic.

What's the downside to huge stat boosts to everything except dexterity, full BAB on HD and natural armour, all good saves, and the ability to take Strafing Breath (Dragonlance Campaign Setting) with a high fly speed and a cone breath weapon. The only nuisance is the Level Adjustment, unless you really want lots of class levels in which case I suppose the RHD could irritate you. But what's a little irritation compared to several tons of flying, fire-breathing lizard?

well, for starters, in 3.5, Dragons are Mammals...

[Aneurin]

Well, technically not as I rather suspect that no-one has ever formally described a dragon, what with the way they don't seem to exist :smalltongue:

But by that token, they're also not lizards, or anything else.

So, the revision;

But what's a little irritation compared to several tons of flying, energy-breathing creature that is totally unknown to science?

[Draz74]

What's the downside to huge stat boosts to everything except dexterity, full BAB on HD and natural armour, all good saves, and the ability to take Strafing Breath (Dragonlance Campaign Setting) with a high fly speed and a cone breath weapon. The only nuisance is the Level Adjustment, unless you really want lots of class levels in which case I suppose the RHD could irritate you. But what's a little irritation compared to several tons of flying, fire-breathing lizard?

Fixed that for you.

(Also, even without Level Adjustment, their spellcasting levels are significantly nerfed -- 2/3 progression after an initial delay of not spellcasting at all.)

[hex0]

Fixed that for you.

(Also, even without Level Adjustment, their spellcasting levels are significantly nerfed -- 2/3 progression after an initial delay of not spellcasting at all.)

I think all cast as sorcerers iirc. And he wants to play a cleric...not the best choice.

[Redshirt Army]

I think all cast as sorcerers iirc. And he wants to play a cleric...not the best choice.

Dragons cast as Sorcerers from both the Wiz/Sorc and Cleric lists.

[Draz74]

Dragons cast as Sorcerers from both the Wiz/Sorc and Cleric lists.

Well, some do. Red, Silver, and Gold are the only varieties from Core, for example (IIRC).

Still, I suppose it's also a good point that even Dragons who can pick from the Cleric spell list are restricted to a limited number of Spells Known, so they might not be what the OP wanted even if their casting progression wasn't gimped.

[Psyren]

Fixed that for you.

I lol'ed :smallbiggrin:

Singer of Concordance looks great to me, especially if you want to be more of a supportive cleric.

[Amoren]

Alternatively, play a dragonwrought kobold, die, have a druid reincarnate you and hope/pray/bribe the DM so that your new body is a young adult true dragon?

That's 15-20 Hit Dice of dragon you just got, on top of your ~7 or so class levels you had before you died. Have fun being horrendously overpowered (yet not gaining any XP) for the rest of the campaign!

[Retech]

White Dragonspawn Abomination gives you wings, dex + con bonus, dragonbreath, and +3 sorcerer levels (just say in your background that you are the slave of a white dragon atm, and happen to be one of the best of em). Combined with the kobold stuff (you need to be a dragon first to get this), then that's +5 sorcerer casting. And only for one LA.

Then you could go three levels of cleric, then mystic theurge all the way. So that's full cleric casting, sorcerer (or wizard with spellhoarding) +2 spellcasting.

Alternatively, just take 1 level of cleric, early entry cheese, and then it's full cleric, +4 sorcerer casting. So you could just do your regular cleric stuff (keeping your character sheet secret), then when crap starts hit the fan...

HOLY CRAP one level higher arcane spells BAM BAM BAM I'm a dragon wheeeee

[hex0]

HOLY CRAP one level higher arcane spells BAM BAM BAM I'm a dragon wheeeee

Also, Dragon Mystic.