Shifter Ranger/Barbarian/Weretouched Master

[FinnDragon]

I am starting a new game soon and am thinking of playing a shifter. I was looking at weretouched master and playing a barbarian weretouched master with a first level dip into ranger to nab knowledge nature as an in class skill so I can get weretouched master at level 6 I believe. My questions is what feats should I take. I am kind of torn between taking a whole mess of shifter feats and really tanking myself out or going with your standard power attack, cleave barbarian route. You guys always seem to have the best knowledge of awesome obsecure feats. Any suggestions?

[comicshorse]

As the number of times a day you can Shift is very dependent on the number of Shifter feats you have, I'd go for the Shifter feats.
As for which Shifter feats that kind of depends which Shifter type you're going for. If you want a claw fighter with lots of damage on your claws then you'd best be a Razorclaw and take the Shifter Savagery feat. For a highly fast and manoueverable Shifter then Longstrider and Shifter Acrobatics is good. For a tough lots of natural armour type, take Beast Hide and try Beasthide Elite and Shifter Defence and Greater Shifter Defence.
That said if you're playing in Eberron the Raging Luck feat can be great fro barbarians

[NeoSeraphi]

Ah, the weretouched master. Sweet memories!

You'll want to be a Longtooth shifter, actually, because you gain claws from being a weretouched tiger/bear (the best ones, I prefer tiger, but bear gets scarier numbers).

So Longtooth shifter, with Longtooth Elite (gives your bite the wounding property at level 1. Scary!), as well as Extra Shifter Trait (Probably Beasthide), and one other shifter feat to qualify for it, as well as Shifter Savagery. And Endurance, since you're a ranger.

Try to convince your DM to let you get the pre-errata version of weretouched master. It's powerful, but that's what it's supposed to be. The flavor of the class is clearly supposed to allow you to become more like a lycanthrope, and by the time you get to the end of the class, wizards have been polymorphing for 4 levels already, so it's not exactly fair to you to nerf that capstone so hard.

I suggest you get into warshaper afterwards (Complete Warrior), which you qualify for already because you have the shapechanger subtype. Have fun!

[Cieyrin]

If you have Tome of Battle, I'd strongly consider dipping Bloodclaw Master, as it gets you Razorclaw for free and you can pick up Longtooth, Beasthide or one of the other meleeish shifter traits and early entry yourself to 3 traits. Take that, Shifter Druids! :smallwink:

I personally favor Beasthide Barbarians, just due to the natural armor and Con cancel out the Rage penalty and extend both the shift and rage. I don't much care for the Shifter Defense chain, though it can be helpful early on, I suppose, not so much after the early levels.



Ah, the weretouched master. Sweet memories!

You'll want to be a Longtooth shifter, actually, because you gain claws from being a weretouched tiger/bear (the best ones, I prefer tiger, but bear gets scarier numbers).

So Longtooth shifter, with Longtooth Elite (gives your bite the wounding property at level 1. Scary!), as well as Extra Shifter Trait (Probably Beasthide), and one other shifter feat to qualify for it, as well as Shifter Savagery. And Endurance, since you're a ranger.

Try to convince your DM to let you get the pre-errata version of weretouched master. It's powerful, but that's what it's supposed to be. The flavor of the class is clearly supposed to allow you to become more like a lycanthrope, and by the time you get to the end of the class, wizards have been polymorphing for 4 levels already, so it's not exactly fair to you to nerf that capstone so hard.

I suggest you get into warshaper afterwards (Complete Warrior), which you qualify for already because you have the shapechanger subtype. Have fun!

I favor having the trait match the Weretouched Master for the damage boost but that's me. As for the errata, you don't get as much of an ability boost but it's still respectable, between the 1st and 5th level abilities.

[NeoSeraphi]

I favor having the trait match the Weretouched Master for the damage boost but that's me. As for the errata, you don't get as much of an ability boost but it's still respectable, between the 1st and 5th level abilities.

Becoming a hybrid (if you get pre-errata) increases your size to Large, so your weapons get larger. Plus, being a tiger gets you pounce, so having more natural weapons is a good thing. And having claw/claw/bite lets you get real use out of Shifter Multiattack, which will also extend your shifting and give you more uses.

[Cieyrin]

Becoming a hybrid (if you get pre-errata) increases your size to Large, so your weapons get larger. Plus, being a tiger gets you pounce, so having more natural weapons is a good thing. And having claw/claw/bite lets you get real use out of Shifter Multiattack, which will also extend your shifting and give you more uses.

So Longtooth, dip Bloodclaw Master for Razorclaw and Extra Trait(Beasthide) before Weretouched Master. It just checks whether you have the trait, not if you start with it.

[NeoSeraphi]

So Longtooth, dip Bloodclaw Master for Razorclaw and Extra Trait(Beasthide) before Weretouched Master. It just checks whether you have the trait, not if you start with it.

Oh no, I definitely agree with Bloodclaw Master. I was just saying that going actual Razorclaw shifter was a waste.

[FinnDragon]

I don't have tome of battle, but I will take a look at it. I was thinking of taking beasthide to offset the AC penalties while raging. How would the Dr from Shifter Defense stack with the eventual DR from Barb? I think taking some good tank defense feats would be great since Tiger weretouched master and rage already gives me a bunch of bonuses to str.

[Cieyrin]

I don't have tome of battle, but I will take a look at it. I was thinking of taking beasthide to offset the AC penalties while raging. How would the Dr from Shifter Defense stack with the eventual DR from Barb? I think taking some good tank defense feats would be great since Tiger weretouched master and rage already gives me a bunch of bonuses to str.

They don't stack, if that's what you're asking. At really low levels, it can be useful for extending longevity, like Adamantine Body is for Warforged. After, though, it ages poorly.

[FinnDragon]

I'm not sure how useful razorclaw would be. As a barbarian you would want to maximize dmg output and probably use a twohanded weapon. Not to mention the claw attack is def going to drop in usefulness in mid to high levels. Unless I am horribly mistaken and u can only pounce with natural weapons.

Why does the shift defense tree drop in usefulness in later levels, DR is generally a nice thing to have all the time I would think?

Are there any non-shifter feats I should take?

Also, thanks a lot for the help guys!:smallbiggrin:

[Cieyrin]

I'm not sure how useful razorclaw would be. As a barbarian you would want to maximize dmg output and probably use a twohanded weapon. Not to mention the claw attack is def going to drop in usefulness in mid to high levels. Unless I am horribly mistaken and u can only pounce with natural weapons.

Why does the shift defense tree drop in usefulness in later levels, DR is generally a nice thing to have all the time I would think?

Are there any non-shifter feats I should take?

Also, thanks a lot for the help guys!:smallbiggrin:

DR is nice, the problem is that they provide only 2 or 4 points of it. Meanwhile, damage is much, MUCH higher, that it makes little difference. It's why Barbarian DR is typically considered subpar, since it provides so little by the time you get it.

[NeoSeraphi]

DR is nice, the problem is that they provide only 2 or 4 points of it. Meanwhile, damage is much, MUCH higher, that it makes little difference. It's why Barbarian DR is typically considered subpar, since it provides so little by the time you get it.

However, there is a way to make the DR from Shifter Defense viable, if you take 10 levels of the Black Blood Cultist prestige class from Champions of Ruin, you gain DR 5/Silver, which would stack with Greater Shifter Defense for a total of DR 9/Silver, much better in my opinion. You would also gain the ability to use natural attacks at all times, as well as a rend attack with your claws that would greatly help a weretouched master, and the ability to attack with all your natural attacks at once when you grapple.

It's the perfect way to finish your build of Ranger 1/Jaguar Barbarian 4/Weretouched Master 5. I suggest making it Ranger 1/Jaguar Barbarian 4/Weretouched Master 5/Black Blood Cultist 10.

[FinnDragon]

Alright, well I do like the Longtooth Elite feat and Shifter Savagery is excellent. My DM is not going to allow Tome of Battle so no Bloodclaw Master. What other shifter feats are worth it. Right now I am thinking:

Longtooth Shifter
1 - Longtooth Elite
3 - ?
6 - Extra Shifter Trait (Beasthide)
7 - (Weretouched Master Bonus) Shifter Savagery
9 - Beasthide Elite and ?
12 - ?
15 - ?
18 - ?

Lastly, does Pounce only work with natural weapons?

[Cieyrin]

However, there is a way to make the DR from Shifter Defense viable, if you take 10 levels of the Black Blood Cultist prestige class from Champions of Ruin, you gain DR 5/Silver, which would stack with Greater Shifter Defense for a total of DR 9/Silver, much better in my opinion. You would also gain the ability to use natural attacks at all times, as well as a rend attack with your claws that would greatly help a weretouched master, and the ability to attack with all your natural attacks at once when you grapple.

It's the perfect way to finish your build of Ranger 1/Jaguar Barbarian 4/Weretouched Master 5. I suggest making it Ranger 1/Jaguar Barbarian 4/Weretouched Master 5/Black Blood Cultist 10.

Huh, I'm only vaguely familiar with Black Blood Cultist, so I suppose that kinda makes it worthwhile. But only in that case, as otherwise, not so much.

[NeoSeraphi]

Alright, well I do like the Longtooth Elite feat and Shifter Savagery is excellent. My DM is not going to allow Tome of Battle so no Bloodclaw Master. What other shifter feats are worth it. Right now I am thinking:

Longtooth Shifter
1 - Longtooth Elite
3 - ?
6 - Extra Shifter Trait (Beasthide)
7 - (Weretouched Master Bonus) Shifter Savagery
9 - Beasthide Elite and ?
12 - ?
15 - ?
18 - ?

Lastly, does Pounce only work with natural weapons?

3rd level- Natural Healing (or whatever it is that lets you heal when you shift/end shifting)

9- If you want to use my build, you'll need to take Improved Unarmed Strike here.

12- Shifter Defense
15- Greater Shifter Defense
18- Power Attack