Gestalt for a short campaign

[Immonen]

So a friend of mine is getting 3-4 players together to do a once-a-week game for a few months, just for fun. We're all meant to start at level 1, and it's been shaping up to look like a high tier 4 game.

I don't know much about the setting yet, besides that he intends to give us plenty of magic items to play around with. So far, the only confirmed class we have is a bard.

I'm thinking of asking the DM if I can gestalt a PHB fighter with a kensai. Would this be overpowered, given the information I have?

[hex0]

So a friend of mine is getting 3-4 players together to do a once-a-week game for a few months, just for fun. We're all meant to start at level 1, and it's been shaping up to look like a high tier 4 game.

I don't know much about the setting yet, besides that he intends to give us plenty of magic items to play around with. So far, the only confirmed class we have is a bard.

I'm thinking of asking the DM if I can gestalt a PHB fighter with a kensai. Would this be overpowered, given the information I have?

The Kensai variant fighter? I don't think you could go Fighter/Fighter.

Bard is tier 3 though.

[DeAnno]

If you want a double dose of Fighter Feats at Tier 4 Fighter|UA Feat Rogue is probably most optimal (though even Fighter|Normal Rogue would be an ok T4 low level Gestalt). The nice thing about Gestalting with Rogue is that you get all those skills and the reflex save, leaving you with good everything except will.

[JaronK]

You can't double up the feats in Gestalt, as you take the better of the two options. What exactly do you want to do with this character?

JaronK

[Immonen]

The Kensai variant fighter? I don't think you could go Fighter/Fighter.

Bard is tier 3 though.

No no no, the prestige class in UW.


You can't double up the feats in Gestalt, as you take the better of the two options. What exactly do you want to do with this character?

JaronK

Again, talking about the prestige class, not the variant, though I will look the variant up now. As for the character concept, I was shooting at a greatsword-using samurai, probably going to be tanking for the party.

[hex0]

Can you take the OA Samurai? They can get a +10 weapon by 18th level by spending 200k. Also, bonus feats.

Kensai (the CW one) gets to +10 by 15th by only spending a bit of XP.

What all is open for you to you?

I'd go for Swashbuckler (weird since you are strength focused), but they deal STR and CON damage on Crits at higher levels. Daring Warrior lets you get the fighter feats through your SB levels too.

Monk 2/Fighter 2 offers 5 bonus feats and evasion (as well as the skills you need for Kensai)

[hex0]

Can you take OA Samurai?

OA Samurai/Fighter 5
Kensai 5/Fighter 5
Exemplar 1/Fighter 1 (additional +4 to Concentration AND take 10!)
Kensai 5/Fighter 5
OA Samurai 3/Fighter 3
(open) 1/Fighter 1

If not...

Monk 2/Fighter 2
Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 3
Kensai 5/Fighter 5
Exemplar 1/Fighter 1 (additional +4 to Concentration AND take 10!)
Kensai 5/Fighter 5
(open) 4/Fighter 4

As for feats, obviously the Weapon Focus, Specialization chains. Improved Crit, Slashing Flurry, Weapon Mastery, Weapon Supremacy...

Edit: Exemplar works really well with pulling off your Kensai abilities. I'd also reccomend the Combat Focus feat chain (fits the character as well!). can't think of any other PRCs. Shou Disciple? Pious Templar?

Edit, Edit: Knockdown would work nicely for you as a feat. You'll deal 10 damage VERY quickly in your build

[Gotterdammerung]

One very fun character i have done in a low impact gestalt campaign was too combine watch detective from the masters of the wild and bloodhound from the complete adventurer.

the prerequs are pretty easy to hit with gestalt. Swashbuckler, fighter, rogue, ranger, and factotum are all good base classes to work with.

I did
1 Factotum/ranger
2 Factotum/fighter
3 Factotum/fighter
4 Factotum/ranger
5 Factotum/Bloodhound
6 Bloodhound/Watch Detective
7 ""
8 ""
9 ""
10 ""
11 ""
12 ""
13 ""
14 ""
15 Factotum/Watch Detective
16 Factotum/Fighter
17 Factotum/Fighter
18 Factotum/Fighter
19 Factotum/Fighter
20 Factotum/Fighter


I split my feats between archery feats (including ranged disarm) and roleplay fluff feats like Urban Tracking and such.

It is by no means cheasy strong but it still allows for some healthy cool cheese.
Like:
Subdual dmg with a bow without needing special arrows for it (WDet)

Add your int bonus to any subdual dmg, including your bow.

Make a Gather information check to get clues about a villain from the crowd, then sketch the villain (WDet). Then study the sketch for 10 minutes and mark the villain and swiftly hunt him down and fight him with cool bonuses (bloodhound).

Play good cop bad cop (coop nterrogation WDet)

+8 higher atk roll when making disarms (including with your bow w/ 30 feet) (imp disarm {feat}+ superior disarming{WDet})

Auto-check for secret doors like an elf (WDet)

Trapfinding(factotum)with high search

Track(rng) with high survival,Urban Tracking(Feat) with high gather info,Locate object, Discern Lies, Locate Creature (WDet) are all incredibly useful in finding anyone and anything. And then if they also happen to be your mark you can add in EVERYTHING FROM BLOODHOUND to be able to find them even quicker.

Have a hunch? ask the GM and get a 70%+ 1% per lvl of watch Detective chance of getting a straight answer. (Deductive

[Gotterdammerung]

augury, watch detective)

Anyway its a fun gestalt character and you kinda become a super sherlock holmes. I played it in a predominantly urban campaign so it really was fun. But essentially no one can hide from you, not even the truth =)

[hex0]

augury, watch detective)

Anyway its a fun gestalt character and you kinda become a super sherlock holmes. I played it in a predominantly urban campaign so it really was fun. But essentially no one can hide from you, not even the truth =)

Super sherlock holmes! :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: I love it!

You usually can only take one PRC at a time in gestalt. Not sure if this game would allow it or not. Since it is tier 4 or under, it might be ok.

Actually it might be possible to deal more unarmed damage with (Monk/Kensai/Kensai Fighter) than greatsword, but we still havent heard back from Immonen yet. It is his concept though. :smallbiggrin:

If two PRCs ARE allowed in this game, Pious Templar might help. Not having to break out for Exemplar is nice too.

[Gotterdammerung]

Super sherlock holmes! :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: I love it!

You usually can only take one PRC at a time in gestalt. Not sure if this game would allow it or not. Since it is tier 4 or under, it might be ok.



In this instance, both the prestige classes are very underpowered on there own. So most GM's (even the real sticklers) would be ok with combining bloodhound and Watch Detective.

The no prestige combining rule was put in place to limit crazy powerful cheesy combinations like some sort of wizard druid paladin bstmaster arcane heirophant Bonded summoner fleshwarper Halfling outrider monstrousity with a colossal elder elemental familiar animal companion special mount.

It shouldn't apply on something as wholesome as Sherlock Holmes.

[Immonen]

Okay, I've checked out a lot of your suggestions. OA Samurai is basically the Kensai base class, and probably a lot less pain to gestalt with. I'm thinking that, plus either Monk, Swashbuckler, or standard Fighter (the bonus feats are on different levels, so I'd have empty levels occasionally at random intervals, but far less often).

Between those, what sounds best to y'all? All three are excellent choices- Monk fits the samurai aspect and gives me a few sweet tricks, Swashbuckler has some nifty attacks toward the high end although I don't expect we'll get that far in the game, and Fighter gives me plenty of feats to play around with.

Just fyi, we have complete access to splatbooks (within reason, I don't think the DM would be keen on allowing BoEF) and homebrew, with DM approval and access to the book. I have a pretty good collection, so that shouldn't be much of a problem.

[Gotterdammerung]

Do um Sam the whole way but first 2 levels monk and the rest of the lvls fighter.

Get a sparring dummy of the master for 10 foot steps. Then combo with Boots of Sidestepping out of MiC for two 10 ft steps in one round.


Spice it up with 1 casting class (wu jen works if u want the whole oriental feel) and go into blade dancer (sam/blade) out of the oriental adventures for some extra enhancements on your weapon + crazy movement speed + crazy jump tumble and balance skills when you can prerequ.

Then you can make the DC 40 tumble check to increase your 5 foot steps to 10 foot steps. And with your training with the sparring dummy you get 15 ft steps. (2 doubles is a triple)

Then u can use your boots to make 2 15 foot steps in one round.

[hex0]

Spice it up with 1 casting class (wu jen works if u want the whole oriental feel)

Wu Jen is Tier 2. Not many tier 4 or lower casters...

I would do this:

Monk 1/ranger 1: Carmendine Monk, IUS, Stunning Fist
Monk 2/ranger 2: Combat Reflexes, TWF
Kensai Fighter 1/Swashbuckler 1: Weapon Focus greatsword
Kensai Fighter 2/Swashbuckler 2: Combat Expertise
Kensai Fighter 3/Swashbuckler 2:
Kensai Fighter 4/Kensai 1: Weapon Spec. greatsword
Kensai Fighter 5/Kensai 2: (bonus feat)
etc.

You could also attack with a mix of greatsword and Unarmed Strike (-4 penalty to greatsword, none to unarmed strike. -2 with TWF). Pick up a monks belt. INT to AC and Damage makes you focus on just INT, etc.

Edit: Actually that is a bit silly. You said this is a tier 4 game but you mentioned there is a bard (tier 3) in your party? Would you be able to gestalt with Warblade instead?

Warblade/Kensai Fighter 5, netting you a few goodies

Or if no TOB

Psychic Warrior 5/Kensai Fighter 5 = 5 bonus feats :smallcool:

Actually Kensai PRC is a LOT better compared to Samurai. Samurai maxes out at +10 a lot later and for a crap ton of gold. Kensai costs just a tiny bit of XP and you max out 3 levels sooner. Kensais abilities are a lot better compared to Samurais weak bonus feat list. Kensai all the way from 5th to 15th!

Be sure to pick up exemplar! the concentration boost is worth it!!!!

Edit 2: I know you want to use a greatsword, but you can deal more damage with your unarmed strike than a greatsword by level 6 by taking six levels of Monk, Improved Natural Attack and Superior Unarmed Strike: 2d8 (only 1x str though unless you have Hammer Fist.) That's one more damage than a greatsword with 20 str...and it keeps going up from there (to 4d8 at 16th level, earlier if you get a monk's belt.) If you can keep your BAB up and get at least 11 Monk levels in you can flurry at +20/+20/+20/+15/+10/+5. Just FYI. :smallamused: