Dethy VII: Still not done with the analyzer program

[Saposhiente]

Dethy VII
Dethy is a werewolf game of logic, where everyone has a scry and is trying to find the liar.
Taking exactly 5 people, no exceptions, so sign up fast!
Rules:

The stuff at WW Central (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169067)
All Cops begin the game with a 'scoop' of a random other player, telling the cop what they'd scry the other player as. The Mafia learns what roles have scooped him, as if he had used his watch his back ability.
Day ends when a majority of living players vote to lynch another living player, or after 72 hours, when the lynch will be decided randomly. Not lynching is not an option. You can choose to have your vote not count for the purpose of ending day for the first 48 hours by specifying that it is a deadline vote. After 48 hours, deadline votes will be counted as normal votes.
Night ends when actions are in, with a deadline of 48 hours. No-killing is not an option; if necessary the kill will be decided randomly.
Roles are not revealed upon death
PMs are allowed (But please share them after game end for our enjoyment :smallsmile:)
No Cryptography. I don't care if I'm the only one who has tried it.

Roles:
All roles have a scry action at night. The Mafia's goal is to eliminate the Cops, and the Cops' goal is to lynch the Mafia. Cops are not told which Cop they are, only that they are a Cop.
One of the Cop roles, at random, will not be in the game. Which one is for the players to figure out.

Mafia: He must nightkill a player every night. He may:

Scry: Determine the exact role of target player OR
Watch his back: Find out what roles (not players) scried him that night (if any).

Sane Cop: He scries people accurately
Insane Cop: He scries people as Innocent when Guilty and as Guilty when Innocent
Naive Cop: He scries everybody as Innocent
Paranoid Cop: He scries everybody as Guilty
Social Cop: He scries people as what they'd scry him as (So the Mafia, Sane and Naive cops scry as Innocent, and the Insane and Paranoid cops scry as Guilty)

Changes from Dethy VI:
Random N1 scries (Scoops), Social Cop added: Balance reasons
I've managed to determine that the only way that more players can be added and for this to remain balanced is if there is a second Mafia, which makes analysis much, much harder.
PMs allowed: Because they're fun and with the above they do not affect balance too significantly.
Player List:
5/5 players

bladescape
Lord Loss
The Grimmace
Penguinator
Ramsus

People reserving a spot for Dethy VIII:
(no reserving if you're playing in this one)
1/5 reserving

cd4
Matthias2207
super dark33
usourselves&we

[Zjoot]

I'll give it a try

[Penguinator]

Second in's the best, right?

...Or the list seems to be full. Oh.

[Ramsus]

I guess I'll be the third then. Haven't done one of these before I think.

[Saposhiente]

...Or the list seems to be full. Oh.

Congratulations, you found this thread's copypasta mistake! +1 cookie! It was totally intentional. Totally.
Still looking for players to replace bladescape and LL if they don't confirm. You can opt to join if possible and be put on the waitlist if not possible.

[cd4]

I'll like to join this game or the next whichever has space first.

[Lord Loss]

I'll still play. I,ve been wanting to try this for a while.

[Saposhiente]

Now full up, will give bladescape 24 hours to confirm or cd4 will replace him.

[bladescape]

Make that one hour.:smalltongue:

I've just woken up and I'm raring to go.

[Saposhiente]

Game Start
Day 1
Everybody should have received a PM with their role and their scoop.

[Penguinator]

bladescape, for now.

[bladescape]

*Facepalm*

Don't start pointing yet.

I know I can't be the Paranoid Cop, as my 'Scoop' scried as Innocent.
EDIT:That was Lord Loss, if it makes analysis any easier.

It's much easier to find the Mafia if we all declare what we saw to start, as those who have played this before probably would know.

[Ramsus]

I got the Grimmace as Innocent. (I haven't played before but...yeah, I sorta figured this would be how we'd want to start out.)

[bladescape]

{table=head]Player|Scoop|Result
Bladescape|Lord Loss|Innocent
Penguinator|Ramsus|Innocent
Lord Loss|Ramsus|Guilty
Ramsus|The Grimmace|Innocent
The Grimmace|Bladescape|Guilty[/table]

[Penguinator]

I got Ramsus as Innocent. I guess that makes none of us so far the Paranoid Cop.

[Lord Loss]

I got Ramsus as Guilty.

[Zjoot]

Guess that just leaves me. I scried bladescape as guilty.

[Penguinator]

It will be hilarious yet terrible if the Sane Cop is the role left out.

[Ramsus]

Bladescape then. On the hopes the Sane Cop wasn't left out and it's the Grimmace since I know Lord Loss is the Paranoid Cop.

Edit: I forgot about the Insane Cop. Darnit. That really throws a wrench into this.

[Lord Loss]

@Ramsus

Alternatively, assuming you're not the Mafioso, you could be insane or paranoid cop and I'm the Social Cop, or I could be the Insane Cop.

Ramsus got scried by two people, so lynching him gives us the most information.

[Ramsus]

How could I possibly be a paranoid cop?

[Lord Loss]

Sorry, I hadn't noticed your scry result. And I retracted my point, as I just realized that lynching you doesn't give us your role.

[bladescape]

{table=head]Player|Scoop|Result
Bladescape|Lord Loss|Innocent
Penguinator|Ramsus|Innocent
Lord Loss|Ramsus|Guilty
Ramsus|The Grimmace|Innocent
The Grimmace|Bladescape|Guilty[/table]

Alrighty. We have a full round abouts. Time for full analysis mode.

If Bladescape was Mafia:
The Grimmace would be Paranoid/Sane, Ramsus would be Naive/Sane/Social, Lord Loss would be Paranoid/Insane and Penguinator would be Naive/Sane/Social. If The Grimmace was Paranoid, Lord Loss would have to be Insane and one out of Naive/Sane and Social would be the one dropped. If The Grimmace was Sane, Ramsus and Penguinator would be Naive and Social and Lord Loss would be either Paranoid or Insane, with the other being the missing role.

If Penguinator was Mafia:
Lord Loss would be Paranoid/Insane, Ramsus would be Naive/Sane, The Grimmace would be Paranoid/Insane and Bladescape Naive/Sane. Social would be missing, and LordLoss/Grimmace would be Paranoid/Insane, Ramsus and Bladescape being Naive/Sane.

If Lord Loss was Mafia:
Bladescape would be Insane/Naive/Social, The Grimmace would be Paranoid/Insane or possibly Social, Ramsus would be Sane or Naive and Penguinator would be Sane/Naive or Social. If Bladescape was Insane, The Grimmace could be Paranoid or Social, with the other most likely missing out whilst Ramsus and Penguinator were Sane/Naive. If Bladescape was Naive, then Ramsus would be Sane, Penguinator Social and Grimmace Paranoid or Insane with the other missing. If Bladescape was Social, then Ramsus and Penguinator would be Naive/Sane and Grimmace would be Paranoid/Insane with the other one missing.

If Ramsus was Mafia:
Lord Loss would be Sane/Paranoid, Bladescape would be Sane/Naive or Social, The Grimmace would be Insane/Paranoid and Penguinator Naive/Insane or Social. If LL were Paranoid, The Grimmace would be Insane, Then Penguinator would be Naive/Social, and Bladescape still Sane/Naive or Social. If LL were Sane, Bladescape would be Naive or Social, Penguinator probably being the other one and the Grimmace being Insane or Paranoid with the other likely missing.

If The Grimmace was Mafia:
Ramsus would be Naive/Insane or Social, Lord Loss would be Insane/Paranoid or Social, Penguinator would be Sane/Naive or Social and Bladescape would be Naive or Sane.
If Ramsus was Naive, Bladescape would be Sane, Penguinator Social and Lord Loss either Insane or Paranoid with the other missing. If Ramsus was Insane, Penguinator and Bladescape would be Sane and Naive whilst LL was either Paranoid or Social with the other missing. If Ramsus was Social, Penguinator and Bladescape would be Sane/Naive whilst LL was Insane/Paranoid with the other missing.

There's a full write up, someone else see what you can work from it, I'm too brain-dead.

[Saposhiente]

Nieve

That's a very nice spelling of naive you have there. It'd be a sssshame if ssssomething were to happen to it...

[bladescape]

That's a very nice spelling of naive you have there. It'd be a sssshame if ssssomething were to happen to it...


I'm too brain-dead.

:smallwink:

I'll go correct that whilst no-one is looking. >.>

EDIT:
I just realised that Ramsus dying will give us the most information. True, it won't reveal his role. But two people apparantly DID scoop him. Also, Lord Loss has the most possibilities with being a Mafia, just a thought.

[Penguinator]

I get the feeling I'm the Naive cop. Just a hunch, but it would match my luck.

[Ramsus]

:smallwink:

I'll go correct that whilst no-one is looking. >.>

EDIT:
I just realised that Ramsus dying will give us the most information. True, it won't reveal his role. But two people apparantly DID scoop him. Also, Lord Loss has the most possibilities with being a Mafia, just a thought.

Huh? How do we learn anything from my death if we don't learn anything from my death? (Aside from "Does game end? Y/N".)

[bladescape]

Huh? How do we learn anything from my death if we don't learn anything from my death? (Aside from "Does game end? Y/N".)

It narrows down the possible roles for those that 'scoop'ed you. It therefore does more than any of us dying, especially Penguinator. Then again, with the many different possibilities, Lord Loss would also be a useful target to kill.

*Shrug* Anyways, I'm to tired to really care, we have to kill someone to get info.

[Lord Loss]

Killing Ramsus will me figure out if I'm the sane cop, the paranoid cop, or what. And Ramsus has been scried by 2 people, so that helps the other person too.

[Zjoot]

Alright, let's lynch Ramsus then.

[Matthias2207]

:smallfrown: missed it...
I'd like to reserve a spot for Dethy VIII

[super dark33]

:smallfrown: missed it...
I'd like to reserve a spot for Dethy VIII

Me too. FILLER!

[Ramsus]

Killing Ramsus will me figure out if I'm the sane cop, the paranoid cop, or what. And Ramsus has been scried by 2 people, so that helps the other person too.

Again, I don't see how it will tell you anything. Unless you think I'm actually the Mafia. Well, whatever, just lynch Bladescape tomorrow when the game doesn't end when I die.

[usourselves&we]

Ack, I thought you weren’t supposed to post in this thread if you weren’t playing, I’d like to reserve a spot in the next one.

[Saposhiente]

I don't mind since it's on-topic but not game-affecting. A PM would also be accepted.
New page votecount, because I feel like it and am posting anyway:
Ramsus - 2 [Lynch minus 1] (Lord Loss, The Grimmace)
Bladescape - 1 (Ramsus)
Timeleft: 3 hr until soft deadline, 27 hr until hard deadline.

[bladescape]

Again, I don't see how it will tell you anything. Unless you think I'm actually the Mafia. Well, whatever, just lynch Bladescape tomorrow when the game doesn't end when I die.

... Did you even see my list of possibilities on the last page?:smallconfused: If you did, I don't understand HOW you could claim that it wouldn't tell us anything.

And that, my dear sir, is advocating revenge. You want me to die on what evidence? The fact that I want to lynch you because it will give the most information to whom? Town, that's who.:smallannoyed:

Ramsus, I apologize for this, but I am thinking in terms of the fastest way to find the Mafia.

[Saposhiente]

End of Day 1
Ramsus was lynched, and was Innocent.
Night 1 begins now with a 48 hour deadline.

[Ramsus]

Oh, so it does tell us something.

[Penguinator]

Hmm... My scry was "right." That doesn't tell me much. It means I'm not the Insane Cop.

[Lord Loss]

And I'm either the Paranoid Cop, Social Cop or Insane Cop.

[Saposhiente]

End of Night 1
Lord Loss was killed
Day 2 begins now and ends at some point.

[Penguinator]

bladescape scries as innocent. I will bet almost anything that I'm the Naive Cop.

I don't trust your tables, buddy.

[bladescape]

bladescape scries as innocent. I will bet almost anything that I'm the Naive Cop.

I don't trust your tables, buddy.

...

You CAN'T be serious?:smallconfused: Don't trust my tables?

Really. They are completely correct. What reason is there to distrust them? Pray do tell me?

On that note:

{table=head]Player|Scoop|Result|Innocence|Target two|Result
Bladescape|Lord Loss|Innocent||The Grimmace|Innocent
Penguinator|Ramsus|Innocent||Bladescape|Innocent
Lord Loss|Ramsus|Guilty|Innocent
Ramsus|The Grimmace|Innocent|Innocent
The Grimmace|Bladescape|Guilty|||[/table]

If Bladescape were Mafia:
The Grimmace would be Paranoid/Sane, Penguinator Naive/Social, Lord Loss Paranoid/Insane and Ramsus Naive/Sane. If The Grimmace was Paranoid, Lord Loss would be Insane, Ramsus either Naive or Sane whilst Penguinator was Naive or Social. If The Grimmace was Sane, Ramsus would be Naive, Penguinator Social, and Lord Loss either Insane or Paranoid.

If Penguinator were Mafia:
Bladescape would be Naive/Sane, Lord Loss Insane/Paranoid, Ramsus Naive/Sane, and The Grimmace Insane/Paranoid. Social would definitely be the one left out.

If The Grimmace was Mafia:
Ramsus would be Insane/Social, Bladescape would be Naive, Lord Loss Insane/Paranoid/Social and Penguinator couldn't be Naive as Bladescape is the only able to be Naive, and therefore would be Sane. Of Ramsus was Insane, Lord Loss could be Social or Paranoid, if Ramsus was Social, Lord Loss would be Insane/Paranoid with the other left out....

I need The Grimmace's scry before I really start work on this.

As You can see, my logic is perfectly sound, so your arguements against it are really confusing me, Penguinator. You should know that Town or Mafia, I NEVER make bad logic.

[Penguinator]

It's not the tables themselves, it's the fact that you're trying so hard to convince us that you're town.

Plus, you dropped the killing vote on Ramsus. Explain that one.

[bladescape]

It's not the tables themselves, it's the fact that you're trying so hard to convince us that you're town.

...
Riiiight. About this one. I have NEVER said anything about this. In fact, if you didn't notice, there's even logic in that list up there for HOW I COULD BE THE MAFIA.

See, it was only bolded, I have great self control. Now, allow to ask, how is this supposed to convince you I'm town? The lists and tables themselves are to be used by everyone to find the Mafia. Sure, I'm making myself helpful, but how exactly is that 'trying so hard to convince us that you're town'? No, it's either being a good cop, or doing it for other reasons as a Mafia.


Plus, you dropped the killing vote on Ramsus. Explain that one.

._.
I've already EXPLAINED why. His death was most beneficial to whom? Not Mafia for definite, although I probably would've said that either way. I'm waiting for The Grimmace to expound his scry before I start making Mafia lists, and who could be Mafia. But seriously, the lists/tables have been done by villagers for most of Dethy's History. Go check if you really don't believe me.

[Penguinator]

See? You're trying very hard.

Vote withheld, I'd like to see TheGrimmace's scry.

[Zjoot]

Ok, I scried Lord Loss as guilty, which I guess makes me either insane or paranoid.

[bladescape]

See? You're trying very hard.

Vote withheld, I'd like to see TheGrimmace's scry.

The only thing I'm trying very hard to do is to make you see the lack of basis for your claim.:smallannoyed:

Withholding vote until I have spare time to work out the logistics to the new scry adding into the equation.

[Penguinator]

I thought of something, bladescape.

Why would The Grimmace scry Lord Loss if he knew he had been killed?

[Zjoot]

Well, that logic isn't entirely sound, Penguinator. The person who is Mafia already knows the guilt and innocence of everybody, and their scry will naturally be a lie every day. The point is to figure out who's lying.

[bladescape]

I thought of something, bladescape.

Why would The Grimmace scry Lord Loss if he knew he had been killed?

The Grimmace himself rebutted that theory.

And you know what? The Grimmace could have Hammered by now, killing me and winning. Do you know who that leaves? Penguinator, that's who.

[Zjoot]

Guess it's up to me to break the tie. I think I'm gonna have to chose Penguinator. Sorry, you just seem really eager to get someone lynched, without all that much reason.

[Saposhiente]

GAME OVER
Role list:
{table]bladescape |Nieve Naive Cop|
Lord Loss|Paranoid Cop|
The Grimmace|Mafia|WINNER
Penguinator |Sane Cop|
Ramsus|Social Cop|
Saposhiente|Insane Cop|[/table]
Narrator thoughts:
1. Town was really unlucky this game, in all spots, looking at the cops that don't have the same scry result every time. First, Insane Cop is selected to be out. Then, they lynch the Social Cop. Finally, the Sane Cop scried innocents both times. Result? Nobody's scry changed, denying Town the information needed to prove anybody innocent.
2. Looking at the game, while it is more balanced than classic Dethy, it may be less fun, given that in some cases (such as this one), logic other than way too complicated and time-consuming probabilistic analysis won't always help you. Thoughts?
3. Herp a derp derp. Players no know rules.
Day ends when a majority of living players vote to lynch another living player, Penguinator didn't notice this, but fortunately for him neither did the Grimmace. Note to self: Put this in bold next time.
4. This wasn't all luck. I'm surprised none of the cops gave the Grimmace any suspicion for being last to reveal his scry both times, placing himself conveniently in the middle of the D1 wagon, and not offering potentially controversial thoughts to go with his scry statements. Dethy mechanics or not, he was noticable, tradeoff being that he could put his scries exactly where they tell Town the least information.
Other thoughts?
I'm considering doing a series of fast 2-Dethy (Dethy with two mafioso) games over IRC on Sunday to see by induction how to make it balanced, which may allow it to be done faster. Anyone interested?

[Ramsus]

I actually noticed Grimmace being conveniently last the second day. But I was dead so yeah....

[Zjoot]

Yeah, and I knew that was a mistake and assumed that if I did something wrong when claiming my fake scry then someone would notice, but I didn't really have the time/conviction to think through all the logic, so eventually I just went with it. Also, I noticed the rule you pointed out, but wasn't sure if it would be smart to be too hasty. I thought people might still have time to change votes in between when I pointed and you posted narration. I almost just left the tie to be decided either randomly or in favor of bladescape (I'm not quite sure how ties work in this game) but decided I might as well chose one, since neither seemed to suspect me anyways.

Overall I had fun, though I didn't see a lot of use for the mafia's scry unless the results were given right away, which I guess they were. ( Another thing that varies between games in my experience)

[bladescape]

I'm considering doing a series of fast 2-Dethy (Dethy with two mafioso) games over IRC on Sunday to see by induction how to make it balanced, which may allow it to be done faster. Anyone interested?

Count me interested, although potentially unable to show up.

On another note. Damn it Penguinator, why did you do that?:smallconfused: I was actually beginning to move towards The Grimmace, and then I was attacked and ended changing my opinions back...

And BTW, that proves my point about me not doing that which you claimed.:smallannoyed:

Well played, The Grimmace, I was only starting to work it out at the end, and that was far too late. If I hadn't been so focused on Penguinator, I might've picked up on the potential scry problems etc sooner, but.... Well.

Good game all, and once again apologies to Ramsus.

[Ramsus]

*shrug* In your place I might have gone for me too. You would have had to put blind faith into me. Which is what I did with the Grimmace at first which resulted in me thinking you were guilty.

[Saposhiente]

I thought people might still have time to change votes in between when I pointed and you posted narration.

Oh, in that case I should clarify: When the rules say a phase is over, the phase is over, even if the narration hasn't been posted yet. The times that a narrator is online should not affect the game. Any vote swaps would be too late.


Overall I had fun, though I didn't see a lot of use for the mafia's scry unless the results were given right away, which I guess they were. ( Another thing that varies between games in my experience)
Ja, I send PMs before posting the global info. If it would take a while I'd announce the end of night, send PMs, and then announce the start of day, but with 5 players it's a non-issue.


Count me interested, although potentially unable to show up.
I'm available most of the day then; the exact time would be for people interested to decide.

[usourselves&we]

I'm considering doing a series of fast 2-Dethy (Dethy with two mafioso) games over IRC on Sunday to see by induction how to make it balanced, which may allow it to be done faster. Anyone interested?

I would be interested, if only just to watch it all go down, I’m rather slow at typing and my spelling sucks, so I would probably be an easy target. Anyway the times I’d likely be on are noon – well past midnight (Pacific Time/ PDT/ GMT -7:00/ take your pick)

(double over in pain as we talk in singular first person)

[Lord Loss]

I heavily suspected the Grimmace on Day two, but by the time I figured it out, I was dead and couldn't do anything...

I love the game though. I'll sign up for the next one if I can do so before it,s full.

[Penguinator]

3. Herp a derp derp. Players no know rules. Penguinator didn't notice this, but fortunately for him neither did the Grimmace. Note to self: Put this in bold next time.

Sure I did. I could've sworn bladescape was third on the Ramsus wagon...

I had the realization that I was the Sane one and The Grimmace's scries were just bad lies yesterday after it was too late to change anything. By then, I knew I was the one getting killed, too. I'll post more later.

[Penguinator]

On another note. Damn it Penguinator, why did you do that?:smallconfused: I was actually beginning to move towards The Grimmace, and then I was attacked and ended changing my opinions back...

And BTW, that proves my point about me not doing that which you claimed.:smallannoyed:

Calm down, it's just a game. At first I was wary of The Grimmace coming last, but then I looked at all of your data and thought, "He's being waaay too helpful. A lot of the games I've read show the wolves putting in a lot of data to try to appear town. I'll bet he's the wolf." So there's the logic behind that, it wasn't a total shot in the dark.

But seriously, now, if I were the mafia, I would have been all for lynching Ramsus day one. I didn't even vote day one.

[bladescape]

Calm down, it's just a game. At first I was wary of The Grimmace coming last, but then I looked at all of your data and thought, "He's being waaay too helpful. A lot of the games I've read show the wolves putting in a lot of data to try to appear town. I'll bet he's the wolf." So there's the logic behind that, it wasn't a total shot in the dark.

But seriously, now, if I were the mafia, I would have been all for lynching Ramsus day one. I didn't even vote day one.

Heh, It's just me making sure you don't do it again.:smallwink:

For future notice, when I post lists or offer analysis, it's not a sign of whether I'm a Wolf or a Villager. 'cause I do it when I'm both.:smallcool:

[Zjoot]

I suppose the thing to check is the content/accuracy...:smallwink::smalltongue:

[bladescape]

I suppose the thing to check is the content/accuracy...:smallwink::smalltongue:

:smallcool:

In actual fact, the content/accuracy is usually very accurate as well. The differences are usually trying to focus more on non-wolves if possible.