Negate Gate EXP Cost?

[Tibbaerrohwen]

I'm curious if there is a way to reduce or eliminate the EXP cost of using Gate, or other spells with EXP costs.

Thanks.

[Zaq]

Dweomerkeeper should do the trick.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

If the character in question worships Taiia. that isn't really an option. Otherwise, good call.

Thanks.

Any other suggestions?

[Zaq]

Are you cool with being kind of evil and having a one-time XP cost? Because you can just Gate in something that can cast Gate, order it to fail its saving throw against the next spell you cast on it (since it's under your control at that point, it has no choice), then Mindrape it into being your perfectly willing and obedient Gate-slave. Indirect, but it gets you plenty of Gates at only a single low cost to you. Not exactly a new trick, but if you're trying to get around the XP cost of Gate, I have to imagine that you're not totally averse to shenanigans.

[Little Brother]

Thought Bottle

Or, alternatively, wish for a command-word activated item of gate.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Are you cool with being kind of evil and having a one-time XP cost? Because you can just Gate in something that can cast Gate, order it to fail its saving throw against the next spell you cast on it (since it's under your control at that point, it has no choice), then Mindrape it into being your perfectly willing and obedient Gate-slave. Indirect, but it gets you plenty of Gates at only a single low cost to you. Not exactly a new trick, but if you're trying to get around the XP cost of Gate, I have to imagine that you're not totally averse to shenanigans.

That is a trick I had not thought of, which makes me sad.
I'm not a huge fan of the S word, and I try to stay away form nasty shenanigans like that.
The thing is that, in my group, we all try and stay the same level. Because absences are common, it's easier for the players. I don't want an XP cost cause it messes with the other players in the group, as well as myself.
I would be fine with paying gold or some-such.

[Corlindale]

Our group simply converted all xp cost spells - as well as crafting - to the Pathfinder ruleset, where the cost for spells is simply five times the xp cost in gp. It doesn't really break anything, you could talk to your GM about doing something like that, if everyone is in agreement that xp costs are a hassle to keep track of.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Our group simply converted all xp cost spells - as well as crafting - to the Pathfinder ruleset, where the cost for spells is simply five times the xp cost in gp. It doesn't really break anything, you could talk to your GM about doing something like that, if everyone is in agreement that xp costs are a hassle to keep track of.

I may talk to my DM about it, if it should come up. As is, I feel bad for asking for anything else, because I've noted that spellcasters in our group rarely have to pay for material components. I feel like asking for anything more is just not fair.

[prufock]

Gate something with wishes, wish for xp back?

[Zaq]

That is a trick I had not thought of, which makes me sad.
I'm not a huge fan of the S word, and I try to stay away form nasty shenanigans like that.
The thing is that, in my group, we all try and stay the same level. Because absences are common, it's easier for the players. I don't want an XP cost cause it messes with the other players in the group, as well as myself.
I would be fine with paying gold or some-such.

There's lots of grounds on which to object to tricks like the one I posted, but if you're OK with it up until the one-time XP cost, you can just buy a scroll of Gate. Or a Candle of Invocation.

[erikun]

Or a Candle of Invocation.
Yeah, the easiest (and cheesiest) trick is to simply buy a Candle of Invocation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#candleofInvocation) (cost: 8400 gp), use it to Gate in an Efreeti, have the Efreeti grant you three wishes, and use them to obtain three Candles of Invocation. Use two of them for your Gating needs, and keep the third to Gate in another Efreeti for three more candles.

Expect the gaming universe to spontaneously rearrange itself and/or get bookshelves throw at you for using that trick, though. And expect the DM to cry.

The other option is to make Gate a spell-like ability, which specifically ignore XP costs. The Dweomerkeeper PrC can do it (at 21st level, although you might be better with SLA Wish). Planar Shepard can do it as well, by using Wild Shape to turn into a creature with Gate as a SLA. There isn't anything else that comes to mind, and anything that could would likely be considered broken simply because of the ability to cast Gate without XP costs.

[DoctorGlock]

forgotten realms has a feat that turns any spell into an innate spell like ability 3/day, it keeps its XP cost but you can then take supernatural transformation to make it a 3/day SU ability, no costs of any sort, no components. It will take the overwhelming majority of your feats to pull off unless you use flaws, DCFS and bonus feats or are pledged to an elder evil.

Dweomerkeeper is really a better option, but the above works and the more you take the feat the more times per day you get. once you hit epic DCFS them all into improved spell capacity until you get 17th level spells and then use the complete mage or complete arcane version of innate spell to make it an at will ability. still need SU transform though.

[Tyndmyr]

I'm curious if there is a way to reduce or eliminate the EXP cost of using Gate, or other spells with EXP costs.

Thanks.

Dweomerkeeper, Truenamer, Archmage all come to mind.

[DoctorGlock]

Dweomerkeeper, Truenamer, Archmage all come to mind.

i was under the impression that archmage still paid XP on SLAs

is there any way to increase the dweomerkeeper's SU/day?

[Glimbur]

Gate something with wishes, wish for xp back?


A wish can never restore the experience point loss from casting a spell or the level or Constitution loss from being raised from the dead.

Wish in 3.5 is rather more limited than it was in previous editions.

[Psyren]

Play Pathfinder :smalltongue:

[sreservoir]

Play Pathfinder :smalltongue:

that would eat your WBL, and since wealth is not a river, you'll never catch up.

[Psyren]

that would eat your WBL, and since wealth is not a river, you'll never catch up.

Exactly. Gate shouldn't be free.

[maximus25]

Isn't there a race that makes all sorcerer spells cast as spell like abilities? Take that race, be a sorcerer, no xp cost gates. Problem D&D?

[drakir_nosslin]

shapechange could be used if there's a creature that gets Gate as an SLA, but I can't recall any one right now.

[NNescio]

shapechange could be used if there's a creature that gets Gate as an SLA, but I can't recall any one right now.

Shapechange inherits from Polymorph and doesn't give you SLAs. An exception is made for supernatural abilities, but they are not the same thing.

[stainboy]

that would eat your WBL, and since wealth is not a river, you'll never catch up.

Your wealth is supposed to be maintained about 90% of treasure earned (exact percentage varies by level according to the chart). That means at the very least that 10% of your treasure is earmarked for non-permanent uses and if you try to keep it you just get less treasure than normal later.

It should also mean you can spend in excess of 10% and expect more treasure later, although how much in excess depends on your DM. (That's why we create high level characters will full WBL, rather than a fraction of WBL to account for them selling Rings of Protection and +1 Longswords to buy the items they want.) For you, I suspect the excess will be 0% because you're casting Gate.

[Tibbaerrohwen]

Exactly. Gate shouldn't be free.

I also agree that it shouldn't be free.
I am curious; if I use Planar Binding to summon something that can cast it, what would my options be?

[tiercel]

It should also mean you can spend in excess of 10% and expect more treasure later, although how much in excess depends on your DM.

I always figured that this tended to balance itself out more or less naturally -- burning charges from your Staff of Boom, should, presumably, kill bad guys faster than if you just upgraded a sword from +X to +Y. Your faster/easier kill rate means that you're more rapidly recovering your sunk investment cost.

Think of it this way: a permanent magic item represents equity you get to keep plus a relatively smaller return on investment; an expendable magic item is a no-equity expense which (if used intelligently) produces a faster rate of return.

This doesn't completely hold true for WBL since the greater ease of encounters afforded by use of expendables means both more cash AND more exp, landing you still behind on the gp-vs-XP curve. This just means you evaluate which is more important -- for more gear-dependent classes, it makes sense to maximize your cash at the expense of slower returns, whereas for full casters your spells can outweigh your gear, so burning through cash to accelerate gaining new levels is a better call.

Er... to get back to the original point, in most coherent games, TANSTAAFL. You might dedicate some of your character's resources to reducing/offsetting XP-cost spells, effectively paying the cost in a different way, but if it's feasibly easy to get XP-free gates/wishes for your PC, then you should expect the rules work the same way for, say, the BBEG (who, typically being higher level than your PC, would have ALREADY exploited the rules before you got to).

[stainboy]

I always figured that this tended to balance itself out more or less naturally -- burning charges from your Staff of Boom, should, presumably, kill bad guys faster than if you just upgraded a sword from +X to +Y. Your faster/easier kill rate means that you're more rapidly recovering your sunk investment cost.

Think of it this way: a permanent magic item represents equity you get to keep plus a relatively smaller return on investment; an expendable magic item is a no-equity expense which (if used intelligently) produces a faster rate of return.

This doesn't completely hold true for WBL since the greater ease of encounters afforded by use of expendables means both more cash AND more exp, landing you still behind on the gp-vs-XP curve. This just means you evaluate which is more important -- for more gear-dependent classes, it makes sense to maximize your cash at the expense of slower returns, whereas for full casters your spells can outweigh your gear, so burning through cash to accelerate gaining new levels is a better call.


As I understand it a consumable in your bags is still part of your WBL; a consumable you've already expended isn't. If we're talking about wands most PCs will never run through all 50 charges unless it's a cure stick so it almost never matters.

Trading resources to speed up level gain would be a poor choice. You speed up level gain for the whole party, which means you fight tougher monsters, against whom you're less effective because you have less than level-appropriate gear. It's not a better choice for spellcasters, they're just already ahead of the curve just for being spellcasters so they can afford to make poor choices.