Shapeshifter Base class [PEACH]

[Kittenwolf]

Second attempt at this one, my interesting in fixing this class was reignited after a thread on the PBP boards :). The intent here is to try and create a Shapeshifting class that works from 1-20 and doesn't suffer the "Shapeshifting class worse at shapeshifting than the Shapeshift spell" problem.

Note: HUGE props to Trodon for setting up the table for me!


The Shapeshifter

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+2|
+2|
+0| Mimic Race (+0)

2nd|
+1|
+3|
+3|
+0| Mimic Race (+1)

3rd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+1| Mimic Race (+2)

4th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+1|Instinctual Knowledge, True Shapeshift

5th|
+3|
+4|
+4|
+1|Shapeshift Ability

6th|
+4|
+5|
+5|
+2| Shifting Type

7th|
+5|
+5|
+5|
+2| Shapeshift Ability, Shapechanger Subtype, Large Shapeshift

8th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+6|
+2| Resistant Shifting, Shifting Speech

9th|
+6/+1|
+6|
+6|
+3| Shapeshift Ability, Accelerated Shifting, Huge & Tiny Shapeshift

10th|
+7/+2|
+7|
+7|
+3| Extraordinary Shifting, Spell-Infused Shifting

11th|
+8/+3|
+7|
+7|
+3| Shapeshift Ability, Exclusive Transmutation

12th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+8|
+4| Tireless Shapeshift, Eternal Body

13th|
+9/+4|
+8|
+8|
+8| Shapeshift Ability

14th|
+10/+5|
+9|
+9|
+4| Diminutive & Gargantuan Shapeshift

15th|
+11/+6|
+9|
+9|
+5| Shapeshift Ability, Supernatural Shapeshift

16th|
+12/+7|
+10|
+10|
+5| Swift Shapeshift

17th|
+12/+7|
+10|
+10|
+5| Shapeshift Ability, Free Shapeshift

18th|
+13/+8|
+11|
+11|
+6| Spell infused Shapeshift

19th|
+14/+9|
+11|
+11|
+6| Shapeshift Ability

20th|
+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+12|
+6 |Evershifting[/table]

Many classes dabble in shapeshifting, Druids can become animals and elementals, mages use arcane power to turn themselves into many different shapes, but it takes far more dedication than either to master this powerful artform. A true shapeshifter can be anything, powerful melee combatant, scout, infiltrator, conman, or just about anything else he or she desires.

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Shapeshifters have the following game statistics.
Abilities: A Shapeshifter changes forms so often that their physical ability scores often take a back seat to their mental stats. A high Charisma is necessary for social builds, and a high Intelligence is useful for the Knowledge skills required to occupy a new form.
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10
Starting Age: As druid
Starting Gold: As druid

Class Skills
The Shapeshifter's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (The Planes) (Int), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points at First Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Shapeshifter is proficient with light armor and all simple weapons. However, he also gains any Racial proficiencies (such as an Elf's Longbow proficiency) when shifted into that race.

Abilities by Level:
Shapeshifting Note: While shifted into another race, you gain +10 to Disguise checks to mimic your assumed race.
When mimicing another race you lose any and all characteristics or abilities of your previous race, barring bonus feats.
If your new race has an ability useable a limited number of times per day, this is your total for that race. You cannot use the ability, change into a different race and then back again to gain new uses, your uses refresh at the standard rate/time for that race.
You require a certain amount of knowledge of a creature to be able to transform into it. In order to change into a new creature your Knowledge bonus must at least equal the creature's CR. Alternatively if you spend an hour investigating an intact creature (alive or dead) you may make a special check (Your Int mod + Shapeshifter level vs DC = creature's CR). If you succeed you may freely shapeshift into this creature (following the normal Shapeshift rules but as though you had a high enough Knowledge bonus) for one day per point of Intelligence bonus.
You may not use Mimic Race and True Shapeshift at the same time, one overrides the other.
If you die while using Mimic Race or True Shapeshift you revert to your original form. If you are Shifted into a construct or undead, you die when your HP hit zero as normal for that creature type.

1) Mimic Race (Su): A shapeshifter may transform into any LA+0 race that lacks Racial HD. While shifted your own racial abilities are supressed, and you take on all of the new race's characteristics as though you had created your character of that race.
Exception: You do not gain bonus skill ranks or free feats, though you do gain specific racial feats (eg, shifting into an Elf gives you Longbow Proficiency and bonuses to spot, but shifting into a Human does not give you a free feat or skill points)
You may freely designate your new form's physical characteristics, within the norm of your new race.
This ability may be used at will as a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity and lasts until the Shapeshifter assumes a new form.
Additionally you can use the full Ex, Su & SLAs of a limited number of basic races. Choose a number of LA+0 races equal to your Charisma modifier, you gain access to all of those races' abilities, just like you had created a character of that race.
At level two and three you can reallocate your races known (however LA+1 races cost two points of Cha bonus and LA+2 races cost three).
2) Your Mimic Race feature improves. You may now assume any +1LA race with no Racial HD, or any +0LA race with one Racial HD. Additionally, when you mimic a race you may choose any one Racial Feat appropriate for your new race that you meet the pre-requisites for. This is a bonus feat that lasts as long as you maintain that form.
3) Your Mimic Race feature improves again. You may now assume any race whose LA and Racial HD add up to two. You may now choose two Racial Feats appropriate for your new race.
4) Instinctual Knowledge: Through a combination of first-hand experience and devoted study you can instinctually identify creatures and their abilities. You count as having maximum ranks in any Knowledge skill you have at least five ranks in for the purposes of identifying creatures (and shapeshifting into them)
4) True Shapeshift (Su): You learn how to truly transform your body. You may now shapeshift into any Humanoid with HD no higher than your Shapeshifter level.
While in the new form you retain your own mental stats, feats gained from levels, base saves, skills, base HP and class abilities. Note that your final saves, skills, hp etc are all modified by your new race's ability scores.
You gain the following features of your new form: Physical ability scores (or lack thereof), gross physical characteristics (size, weight, number of limbs, etc etc), Ex special attacks, Subtype, Immunities and resistances (without an Su tag) and racial bonus feats (though not feats gained from class levels or HD). Once you can turn into other creature types, you also gain their creature type.
You do not gain any Ex, Su or Sp abilities of the new form.
You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to your class level without penalty. Additional uses cause you to become Fatigued, or Exhausted if you are Fatigued. You cannot use this ability if Exhausted.
5) Shapeshift Abilities: At lvl 5 and every two levels thereafter, you may choose one ability from the list below. All abilities work in all forms:

Physical Boost: You gain +4 to one Physical ability score, and +2 to two others. You may alter which stat is highest whenever you shapeshift.
Organ Shift: By shifting your organs around you gain 50% fortification. This may be taken twice, granting full Critical hit immunity.
Improved Speed: Increase your base move speed by 50%. This does not stack with any magical movement mode or any spell/magical effect that increases speed.
Improved Armor: You gain a bonus to your Natural Armor equal to one quarter of your Shapeshifter level
Improved Stealth: You gain a racial bonus to your Hide & Move Silently skills equal to one half of your Shapeshifter level.
Improved Physique: You gain a racial bonus to your Balance, Jump and Tumble skills equal to one half of your Shapeshifter level.
Enhanced Sense: Choose one of the following senses. You have this ability in all forms. If your form already has this sense, increase the range by 50%. Low Light Vision. Darkvision. Scent. Blindsense. Tremorsense.

Minimum Level 10
Fast Healing: You gain fast healing equal to 1/4 your Shapeshifter level.
Bodily Repair: Requires Fast Healing ability: By taking one minute concentrating on repairing your body, you can restore one point of ability damage per ability. This can be used at will
Soul Repair: Your Bodily Repair ability now restores one point of ability drain per ability, and one negative level, per use.
Improved HD: You add two to the maximum HD you can Shapeshift into (can be taken multiple times)
Racial Weapons: When shifted into a creature type that grants weapon/armor proficiency, you also gain that proficiency (as long as you maintain that shape).


6) Shifting Type At level six, and every level thereafter you may choose a creature type from the below list. You may now transform into this creature type using your Shapeshift ability.


Animal
Monstrous humanoid
Giant
Fey

Minimal Level 10
Vermin
Aberration
Plant
Ooze
Magical Beast

Minimal Level 15
Elemental
Dragon
Outsider
Construct
Undead


7) Shapechanger Type You gain the Shapechanger subtype. Additionally you may now shapeshift into Large creatures
8) Resistant Shifting Your body is now so accustomed to shapeshifting that you can attempt to hold onto your form when in an area that would normally supress Su effects, such as an Antimagic field. If you suceed at a will save (DC= Spell save DC, or DC20 for effects not cast by another individual) you may retain your shape for a number of minutes equal to your Shapeshifter level. You may not change shape inside such an area, and if you fail the save your Shapeshifting is suppressed as normal.
Shifting Speech: You may speak normally in any form, even if it is not normally capable of speech.
9) Accelerated Shifting Using your Shapeshift and Mimic Race abilities is now a move action and does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You may now shift into Huge and Tiny forms
10) Extraordinary Shifting At level ten you gain all Ex special abilities and qualities of your new form.
Spell-Infused Shifting As your shapeshifting improves you start to gain access to a small number of higher grade SLAs. Once per day per three shapeshifter levels you can use one of your current race's SLAs (subject to its usual requirements and limitations). You may not use an SLA whose base spell involves an expensive material component or XP cost, and you cannot use an SLA of higher level than a Sorcerer of your Shapeshifter level could cast.
11) Exclusive Transmutation You gain immunity to all Transmutation effects that you do not wish to accept
12) Tireless Shapeshift From level 12 you may now use your True Shapeshift ability at will
Eternal Body: A shapeshifter has taken on so many forms that he transcends some of the base limitations of his own form. He no longer gains aging penalties and cannot be magically aged
14) You may now shift into Diminutive and Gargantuan forms
15) Supernatural Shapeshift You now gain all Supernatural abilities of any race you emulate
16) Swift Shapeshift Using your Shapeshift and Mimic Race abilities is now a swift action
17) Free Shapeshift Your Shapeshift and Mimic Race abilities can now be used once per round as a free action.
18) Spell infused Shapeshift You gain all Spell Like Abilities of your new form. However if the spell normally involves an XP cost (eg Wish) you must still pay the XP. Additionally, you cannot shift back to the same creature to regain its limited use SLAs. Eg if you shift into a form with Burning Hands 3/day and use two of them, if you take that form again the same day you only have one use left.
20) Evershifting: Your mastery of Shapeshifting has now reached an ease that few others could ever achieve. Your Shapeshift and Mimic Race abilities are now Ex rather than Su. You no longer have a 'base race' and any effect trying to discern your true shape shows your current form as your true one. You are immune to any effect that would force you to revert to your 'base race' or prevent you from shapeshifting, not even Wish or Miracle grade magic can cause you to revert.
You no longer revert to your base form when you die (since you don't have one), but no matter what form you are in you can always be raised or resurrected.
Additionally the act of changing and refreshing your body so often means that a Shapeshifter no longer dies of old age.

New Feats
Prodigal Shapeshifter
Prerequisite: Mimic Race class feature
Benefit: Choose one animal from the Wizard's Familiar list, or the Druid's Animal Companion list (that a Druid of your level could select as a companion). You can shapeshift into this form using your Mimic Race ability. Once you can shapeshift into Animals using True Shapeshift, you gain a +4 to all physical ability scores when turning into your favored animal.

Practiced Shapeshifter
Prerequisite: Extroadinary Shifting
Benefit: Your True Shapeshift's maximum HD allowance is now equal to your character level rather than your Shapeshifter level

Mental Shapeshifter
Prerequisite: Extroadinary Shifting
Benefit: When you shapeshift you may take on the new form's mental ability scores if you wish. You may not choose to not have a mental stat (eg, if you change into a Mindless creature you must keep your own Intelligence score, you cannot become Mindless yourself)

Reactionary Shapeshift:
Pre-requisite: Shapeshift as a swift action
Benefit: You may shapeshift as an Immediate action

Template Shifter
Prerequisite: Supernatural Shapeshift
Benefit: When you shapeshift you may apply any valid template to your new form. Add the LA (and any granted racial HD) to the HD of the creature to determine if you have enough HD to shapeshift into it. If your Template grants SLAs or SUs with limited uses, changing into a new form with the same template does not refresh your uses.
You cannot use any template without an LA increase

Ultimate Template Shifter (Epic)
Prerequisite: Template Shifter
Benefit: You may now utilise templates that do not have an LA increase, instead use 3xCR increase (plus granted racial HD as normal).

Epic Shifting (Epic)
Prerequisite: Evershifting
Benefit: You gain the ability to shapeshift into stronger creatures. Increase the HD cap for your True Shapeshift by 5. Can be taken multiple times.

Epic Shapeshifter
An Epic shapeshifter has gone beyond what most mortals, even powerful Druids and Wizards, can dream of. No longer bound by the notions of form or race, the Epic Shapeshifter has access to the abilities of nearly the entire range of species, and those not already mastered are only a matter of time...

True Shapeshift: Shapeshifter's maximum HD continues to equal his Shapeshifter level

Bonus Feats: A shapeshifter gains a bonus feat every three levels after 20th

Epic Shapeshifter Bonus Feat List: Armor Skin, Colossal Wild Shape (affecting Shapeshift), Energy Resistance, Fast Healing, Fine Wild Shape (affecting Shapeshift), Perfect Health, Practiced Shapeshifter, Template Shifter, Ultimate Template Shifter, Damage Reduction, Dire Charge, Epic Endurance, Epic Toughness, Improved Combat Reflexes, Epic Shifting, Mental Shapeshifter, Reactionary Shapeshift.

[GunbladeKnight]

How does this work if your base race is human? Do you keep the bonus feat when you switch forms? If so, I'd pick human as a base rave, then shift to either dwarf or elan to mimic the race.

Overall looks nice, but I'm not too keen on power balance myself. What happens when you reach 20th level and die? Do you stay in the form (possibly being immune to resurrection spells) or do you revert to your base race? When you shift to construct/undead, do you die when you hit 0 or do you still have the 10 point buffer after it?

[Kittenwolf]

How does this work if your base race is human? Do you keep the bonus feat when you switch forms? If so, I'd pick human as a base rave, then shift to either dwarf or elan to mimic the race.

I'm of two minds about this one, and unfortunately neither is perfect.
As written you keep your human feat & skill points, which makes human the only logical choice.
The other way to do it is to strip *all* racial bonuses, including human feat & skills, which makes Human the worst possible choice.

If anyone can think of a middle ground that's be awesome :)



Overall looks nice, but I'm not too keen on power balance myself. What happens when you reach 20th level and die? Do you stay in the form (possibly being immune to resurrection spells) or do you revert to your base race? When you shift to construct/undead, do you die when you hit 0 or do you still have the 10 point buffer after it?

I hadn't even thought of these questions, thanks :)
The "revert to base race" is out, since the idea is that the capstone ability means you just don't have a base race any more.
You'll still die when you hit Zero as an undead or construct, but I'll add in an exception that no matter your form you can always be raised/ressurected.

[Trodon]

If your new race has an ability useable a limited number of times per day, this is your total for that race. You cannot use the ability, change into a different race and then back again to gain new uses.

Does that mean you only get that many per day? Or you only get that many ever?



Edit: I made a table, but most of the abilities don't have names so this is what I could do. {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0| Mimic Race

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0|

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1|

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1|True Shapeshift

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+1|Shapeshift Abilities

6th|
+6+/1|
+5|
+5|
+2|

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+2|

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+2|

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+3|

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+7|
+3|

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+7|
+3|

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+8|
+4|

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+8|
+8|

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+9|
+4|

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+9|
+5|

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+10|
+5|

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+5|

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+11|
+6|

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+11|
+6|

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+12|
+6 |Evershifting[/table]

[Kittenwolf]

Does that mean you only get that many per day? Or you only get that many ever?

That many per day (or week or whatever cooldown the ability has). I'll update to make that explicit



Edit: I made a table, but most of the abilities don't have names so this is what I could do. {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0| Mimic Race

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+0|

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1|

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+1|True Shapeshift

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+1|Shapeshift Abilities

6th|
+6+/1|
+5|
+5|
+2|

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+2|

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+2|

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+3|

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+7|
+3|

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+7|
+3|

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+8|
+4|

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+8|
+8|

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+9|
+4|

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+9|
+5|

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+10|
+5|

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+5|

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+11|
+6|

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+11|
+6|

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+12|
+6 |Evershifting[/table]

:O
<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

That is completely and utterly awesome!! Thankyou so much :)

[GunbladeKnight]

New question(s): What happens if I am buffed with Enlarge Person (humanoid only), then switch to an outsider type? Do I keep the buff, or do I lose it?

What happens when you shift from various naturally psionic races, like elan and xeph?

EDIT: In regards to your power point pool. Does it add together, do you take the higher, or does it replace whatever you have?

[Kittenwolf]

New question(s): What happens if I am buffed with Enlarge Person (humanoid only), then switch to an outsider type? Do I keep the buff, or do I lose it?


As you're no longer a humanoid, you'll lose it :)



What happens when you shift from various naturally psionic races, like elan and xeph?

What happens with regards to?... do you mean do you get new PP every time, or something else?

[Kittenwolf]

Realised I'd somehow left out Shifter's speech o.O
Fixed :)

[Torgarn]

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Shapeshifter is proficient with light armor and all simple weapons. However, he also gains any Racial proficiencies (such as an Elf's Longbow proficiency) when shifted into that race.



Elves are not actually proficient with the longbow. They treat it as a martial weapon. Meaning for example that an elf wizard is not proficient with them. Since your class is only proficient with simple weapons it doesnt work you see.


There are other things that don't sit well with me, this was just something I wanted to point out. I'll do a full review tomorrow.

[Kittenwolf]

Elves are not actually proficient with the longbow. They treat it as a martial weapon. Meaning for example that an elf wizard is not proficient with them. Since your class is only proficient with simple weapons it doesnt work you see.

Quote from the SRD
"Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats."

Things like Dwarves treating the Urgosh as a martial weapon wouldn't help this class, but the Elvish ones are bonus feats rather than reducing Exotic weapons to martial.


There are other things that don't sit well with me, this was just something I wanted to point out. I'll do a full review tomorrow.

No worries, let me know :)

[Trodon]

:O
<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

That is completely and utterly awesome!! Thankyou so much :)

Hahaha. It was my pleasure. :smallbiggrin: Doing a re-read as we speak, but I'm not the best judge of balance.

[GunbladeKnight]

Elves are not actually proficient with the longbow. They treat it as a martial weapon. Meaning for example that an elf wizard is not proficient with them. Since your class is only proficient with simple weapons it doesnt work you see.

Already mentioned before, but wanted to add that longbows already are martial, so stating that would be redundant. You're thinking of racial weapons (which are exotic) being treated as racial for each race.

I wouldn't mind trying this at some point to see how it plays.

[Trodon]

BaB: Full
Saves: Fort & Ref high, Will low

There's really no point for this now that there's a table.



Alternatively if you spend an hour investigating an intact corpse of the creature (alive or dead) you may make a special check (Your Int mod Shapeshifter level vs DC = creature's CR). If you succeed you may freely shapeshift into this creature for one day per point of Intelligence bonus.

Living corpse? :smalltongue:

Should be Int mod + Shapeshifter level.

Did you mean once per day per point of Int bonus? Or really one day?


2) Your Mimic Race feature improves. You may now assume any +1LA race with no Racial HD, or any +0LA race with one Racial HD. Additionally, when you mimic a race you may choose any one Racial Feat appropriate for your new race that you meet the pre-requisites for.

As a bonus feat right? Not specified, just bringing it to attention.


You gain the following features of your new form: Physical ability scores (or lack thereof), gross physical characteristics (size, weight, number of limbs, etc etc), Ex special attacks, Subtype, Immunities and resistances (without an Su tag) and racial bonus feats (though not feats gained from class levels or HD). Once you can turn into other creature types, you also gain their creature type.
You do not gain any Ex, Su or Sp abilities of the new form.

That contradicts itself.


5) Shapeshift Abilities: At lvl 5 and every two levels thereafter, you may choose one ability from the list below. All abilities work in all forms:

Organ Shift: By shifting your organs around you gain 50% fortification. This may be taken twice

To get 100%? Not specified, just bringing it to attention.



Bodily Repair: Requires Fast Healing ability: As a standard action you can concentrate on repairing your damaged body, restoring a number of hit points equal to 2x your Shapeshifter level. You also heal one point of ability damage per ability. This can be used at will.

Not sure about this, not sure if it's balanced or not.


Racial Weapons: When shifted into a creature type that grants weapon/armor proficiency, you also gain that proficiency.

For how long? Not specified, just bringing it to attention.


8) Resistant Shifting Your body is now so accustomed to shapeshifting that you can attempt to hold onto your form when in an area that would normally supress Su effects, such as an Antimagic field. If you suceed at a will save (DC= Spell save DC, or DC20 for effects not cast by another individual) you may retain your shape for a number of minutes equal to your Shapeshifter level. You may not change shape inside such an area.

It says you can't Shapeshift in an antimagic field, as written nothing happens when you fail the save.


And that's all so far, if I seem mean or anything sorry I'm not trying to.


Edit: That has to be the longest post I've ever made. Yay! :smallbiggrin:

[Kittenwolf]

There's really no point for this now that there's a table.

Good point :)



Living corpse? :smalltongue:

Yep, living corpse :D
I'll reword, I initially had different rules for if it was a corpse or living creature that you were investigating. Hooray for lack of proofreading.



Should be Int mod + Shapeshifter level.

Did you mean once per day per point of Int bonus? Or really one day?

I'll reword that. Basically if you make that check then for IntMod Days you can freely shift into that form.



As a bonus feat right? Not specified, just bringing it to attention.


Yep, shall clarify that.



That contradicts itself.


It's the same wording as Wild Shape & Polymorph, you get the Ex special *attacks* but not Ex special *abilities*



To get 100%? Not specified, just bringing it to attention.
Yep, will clarify



Not sure about this, not sure if it's balanced or not.

That's mostly there because it's the same as the Warshaper ability with ability damage healing tacked on, it's a minor bit of in combat healing if you can't do anything else, or greatly speeds up out of combat healing.



For how long? Not specified, just bringing it to attention.


Shall specify that one too, should be "As long as you maintain that shape"



It says you can't Shapeshift in an antimagic field, as written nothing happens when you fail the save.

Ah yes, that should be clarified. Fail the save & as normal your shapeshifting goes bye bye.



And that's all so far, if I seem mean or anything sorry I'm not trying to.

Edit: That has to be the longest post I've ever made. Yay! :smallbiggrin:

Nothing mean about it! These are exactly the kind of posts that I need :D

[Trodon]

Glad I could help. :smallsmile:

[Torgarn]

That's mostly there because it's the same as the Warshaper ability with ability damage healing tacked on, it's a minor bit of in combat healing if you can't do anything else, or greatly speeds up out of combat healing.


Not exactly. The warshaper ability only heals 10 points and requires a Concentration check with a DC equal to the damage you have sustained. This makes it a little bit harder to use and somewhat more balanced.

In addition, with evershifting you may wish to add that they also recieve no more penalties for aging.

[Kittenwolf]

Not exactly. The warshaper ability only heals 10 points and requires a Concentration check with a DC equal to the damage you have sustained. This makes it a little bit harder to use and somewhat more balanced.


Hrm. It appears I had things backwards, I thought it was a DC10 and gave a scaling HP restore, rather than DC=Damage and giving back 10. I might modify it to just help with ability damage.



In addition, with evershifting you may wish to add that they also recieve no more penalties for aging.

That's covered under Eternal Body at lvl 12 :)

[Demidos]

Shapeshift action? :smallwink:
Nice, i might play-test this:smallwink:

[Kittenwolf]

Shapeshift action? :smallwink:
Nice, i might play-test this:smallwink:

I'm having no luck with getting this class into a game so if you do get to playtest it, please let me know how it goes :)

[Trodon]

6) Shifting Type At level six, and every level thereafter you may choose a creature type from the below list. You may now transform into this creature type using your Shapeshift ability.


Animal
Monstrous humanoid
Giant
Lycanthrope
Fey

I missed one, Lycanthrope isn't a type, nor is it a subtype.

[Kittenwolf]

I missed one, Lycanthrope isn't a type, nor is it a subtype.

Well spotted :)
You're right, it's an acquired template rather than a type. Shall strike it from the list.

[Kittenwolf]

Hrm. I've been thinking. In order to max out all the skills required to shift forms, you'll need to dedicate six skill points, which is more of a tax than I'd intended. I've thought of the following ways to fix this:

1) Leave it as is. Less than optimal
2) Up the skill points to 8+Int. This means you'll still have 2+Int skills to play with on top of your knowledges.
3) Drop skill points to 4+Int and give them an ability reading "You count as having max ranks in all Knowledge skills for the purposes of identifying (and turning into) creatures."

Thoughts?

[Valwyn]

How about creating a new Knowledge skill? Knowledge (Creatures) or something that gives you info only on creatures but not in another area. For example, you know about the undead, but maybe you have no idea about holy symbols, rituals and the gods in general.

Though basing all you can do on a single skill might not be realistic, so maybe you can group creatures. For example:

Group 1) Animals, Humanoids, Magical Beasts, Vermin.
Group 2) Aberrations, Elementals, Outsiders, Reptilian.
Group 3) Constructs, Dragons, Oozes.
Group 4) Fey, Giant, Goblinoid, Plant.

I'm not sure if this works, but maybe it'll give you an idea.

[Kittenwolf]

I think creating a new skill may be more complication than most would be interesting in.
Hrm. I might make it "You count as max ranks in any knowledge skill you are trained in for the purposes of identifying creatures"

[Kobold-Bard]

1. In the table you say huge instead of gargantuan.

2. I'd suggest limit players so they can't use SLAs that would have an XP cost/maybe high material component as a spell, or making them pay those costs when using them. That was a major thing that prevented me from allowing this class.

3. You may want to put something in preventing certain creature's abilities being used (Sarruhk immediately springs to mind, but there are others as well that can be quite dodgy).

[Kittenwolf]

1. In the table you say huge instead of gargantuan.
Whoops. Double huge shapeshift :D
Fixed now


2. I'd suggest limit players so they can't use SLAs that would have an XP cost/maybe high material component as a spell, or making them pay those costs when using them. That was a major thing that prevented me from allowing this class.

Good point on the XP part, lest we end up with the whole "Infinite Wishes" thing.
I'll put in "You must pay any XP cost for SLAs"


3. You may want to put something in preventing certain creature's abilities being used (Sarruhk immediately springs to mind, but there are others as well that can be quite dodgy).

Well, I guess there's always going to be abilities where the GM just has to say "Gods no". In the case of Sarruhk wasn't that erratad to be a Natural ability rather than one with an SU/EX/SP tag?
I think for things like that it may be easier for GMs to disallow abilities on a case by case basis when things get out of hand, rather than trying to think of them all in advance.

[Kobold-Bard]

...

Good point on the XP part, lest we end up with the whole "Infinite Wishes" thing.
I'll put in "You must pay any XP cost for SLAs"

Well, I guess there's always going to be abilities where the GM just has to say "Gods no". In the case of Sarruhk wasn't that erratad to be a Natural ability rather than one with an SU/EX/SP tag?
I think for things like that it may be easier for GMs to disallow abilities on a case by case basis when things get out of hand, rather than trying to think of them all in advance.

Cool.

And yeah that's true.

New point: While this class is quite potent towards the back end (note: maybe make the final shift speed-up an immediate action rather than a free action just to avoid any potential shenanigans), at the start (especially the first three levels, especially especially at level one) it doesn't really have anything. Changing into any LA+0 race is its only thing, which is bordering on Fighter levels of barren except on a "disguise & infiltrate" scenario. Not sure what to suggest but maybe it needs something to make those early levels more interesting?

New Point 2: I understand why this class has full BAB, however I've always seen that as the "reward" for dedicated warrior classes. This isn't that, it's dedicated it's life to being a shapeshifter rather than a battler (similarly look at the swordsage, built for melée like this guy, but gets medium BAB since it's primary focus is their maneuvers and stances rather than actual fighting mastery).

Again just a suggestion. Personally I'd combine the two, but it's your class (which I must admit is growing on me).

Edit: As an extention of my BAB point, I might suggest letting them get SLAs earlier (mid level somewhere), but limiting it to individual forms you choose, maybe 1/type of creature you can become. Advancement obviously comes with getting a new form each level when you pick a new type, but then add on letting them pick all creatures of one types they can currently shapeshift into every couple of levels, then finally the level 19 ability you already have.

This way they're focussing on emulating creature's innate abilities, rather than turning into anything and then hitting as hard as they can.

[Kittenwolf]

New point: While this class is quite potent towards the back end (note: maybe make the final shift speed-up an immediate action rather than a free action just to avoid any potential shenanigans), at the start (especially the first three levels, especially especially at level one) it doesn't really have anything. Changing into any LA+0 race is its only thing, which is bordering on Fighter levels of barren except on a "disguise & infiltrate" scenario. Not sure what to suggest but maybe it needs something to make those early levels more interesting?

I do agree with you, unfortunately I have no idea what to add in. Moving proper shapeshifting earlier would probably be overpowered..
Aha, I have a feat idea, that way if someone wants to play a sneaky character they don't need to take it, but if they want something more combat oriented, they can..



New Point 2: I understand why this class has full BAB, however I've always seen that as the "reward" for dedicated warrior classes. This isn't that, it's dedicated it's life to being a shapeshifter rather than a battler (similarly look at the swordsage, built for melée like this guy, but gets medium BAB since it's primary focus is their maneuvers and stances rather than actual fighting mastery).

With the skill points and no longer having the large Knowledge tax, I can see your point. Pain in the rear to update the table though ><


Again just a suggestion. Personally I'd combine the two, but it's your class (which I must admit is growing on me).

Edit: As an extention of my BAB point, I might suggest letting them get SLAs earlier (mid level somewhere), but limiting it to individual forms you choose, maybe 1/type of creature you can become. Advancement obviously comes with getting a new form each level when you pick a new type, but then add on letting them pick all creatures of one types they can currently shapeshift into every couple of levels, then finally the level 19 ability you already have.

This way they're focussing on emulating creature's innate abilities, rather than turning into anything and then hitting as hard as they can.

How about a small pool of the number of SLAs you can use per day. As in "Once per day per three Shapeshifter levels, you can use an SLA that your current form could normally use. This cannot mimic a spell with an expensive material or XP component, or a spell higher level than a Sorcerer of your level could cast" ?

[Kobold-Bard]

I do agree with you, unfortunately I have no idea what to add in. Moving proper shapeshifting earlier would probably be overpowered..
Aha, I have a feat idea, that way if someone wants to play a sneaky character they don't need to take it, but if they want something more combat oriented, they can..

Hmmm.....You make a good point, it isntricky trying to think of something. I'll probably have a flash of inspiration in work and post it rather than doing what I'm paid to do.

New Q: At level two, am I limited to humanoid LA+1 forms, or could I become a Tiefling (LA+1 Outsider) for example?

With the skill points and no longer having the large Knowledge tax, I can see your point. Pain in the rear to update the table though ><

Apologies for that.

How about a small pool of the number of SLAs you can use per day. As in "Once per day per three Shapeshifter levels, you can use an SLA that your current form could normally use. This cannot mimic a spell with an expensive material or XP component, or a spell higher level than a Sorcerer of your level could cast" ?

Is it 1/day for every 3 levels for each individual form, or as a total you split between all your forms?

I'd say the second is better and seems pretty cool. Maybe letting you use the ones of your lesser forms more freely once you upgrade to a new tier of forms (eg. once you hit level 10 any SLAs you can get from humanoid, animal, monstrous humanoid, giant & Fey are still level limited, but
no longer use up your uses/day and may be used freely up to their own racial limit).

If you stick it at level 1 it helps the early levels be slightly more interesting (become a gnome and talk to critters or a Drow and throw Faerie Fire around, etc.)

Of course again it's your class so up to you, I'm just throwing out ideas.

As an aside regarding the new feats & epic progression, I feel this sums up my feelings properly: http://static.tsrfiles.co.uk/images/smilies/drool.gif

[Kittenwolf]

The idea was split up between all your forms, you're not very good with SLAs yet so the effort is spread no matter which forms you take.

With the lower level ones, both to power up low levels and to keep Mimic Race useful a bit longer, would it be overpowered to have, right from the start, all Su, Ex & SLAs from your Mimic Race (at their usual limits)? We're only talking LA 0/1/2 so the abilities shouldn't be game breaking, but it'd be a hefty chunk of usefulness even up to middle levels.

And I've never seen that smily before, that's awesome :D

[Kobold-Bard]

The idea was split up between all your forms, you're not very good with SLAs yet so the effort is spread no matter which forms you take.

With the lower level ones, both to power up low levels and to keep Mimic Race useful a bit longer, would it be overpowered to have, right from the start, all Su, Ex & SLAs from your Mimic Race (at their usual limits)? We're only talking LA 0/1/2 so the abilities shouldn't be game breaking, but it'd be a hefty chunk of usefulness even up to middle levels.

And I've never seen that smily before, that's awesome :D

1. Awesome, that sounds like a good ability then.

2. Maybe not gamebreaking in the long run, but being able to use the abilities of EVERY race of that LA, at the same time as the actual races are still getting the benefit of just one if them is waaaaaaay too much. Maybe allow it 1/day or for rounds = HD/day to begin with, and freely once you get your next set of forms (can you tell I like this idea yet :smallwink:)

So for LA+0/1 races you get that at level four (when you get shapeshift), for LA+2 races maybe push that back to level six (when you get new forms) so the person playing a Drow doesn't feel completely outdone by you.

Then allow the Ex, Su, SLA abilities of your chosen level 6 form once you get your level 10 form, level 7 when you get 11, etc. (this might give people an incentive not just to pick Fey first every time if Giants or Animals have abilities you want access to earlier).

And the smiley is from another site I use, it is pretty good.

[Kittenwolf]

Hrm.. what about, instead of keeping track of LAs etc once you get Shapeshift, something like:
"At level one, you can use the full Ex, Su & SLAs of a limited number of basic races. Choose a number of LA+0 races equal to your Charisma modifier, you gain access to all of those races' abilities, just like you had created a character of that race.
At level two and three you can reallocate your races known (LA+1 races cost two points of Cha bonus, LA+2 races cost three).

[Kobold-Bard]

Hrm.. what about, instead of keeping track of LAs etc once you get Shapeshift, something like:
"At level one, you can use the full Ex, Su & SLAs of a limited number of basic races. Choose a number of LA+0 races equal to your Charisma modifier, you gain access to all of those races' abilities, just like you had created a character of that race.
At level two and three you can reallocate your races known (LA+1 races cost two points of Cha bonus, LA+2 races cost three).

I'd still say that only one level later than the actual races (especially LA races) is too close to be able to access multiple race's full range if abilities.

Edit: I realised my suggestion still doesn't do anything to change the "barren first three levels" situation, so maybe yours is the right way to go about it actually.

Edit 2: Actually yeah, much like the class as a whole the more I think about it the more I like it.

[Kittenwolf]

Class has been updated with discussed changes.

True the SLAs of characters like Drow will be quite potent, but it hopefully shouldn't be unbalancing when it's your primary class feature. :)
Thanks for the feedback and ideas :D

[Kittenwolf]

Hrm. I'd love to add in granting "Natural Abilities" as well at Epic levels, but I'm a bit leery since quite a few of the Natural Abilities are spellcasting at quite high levels.

However, would adding "You gain all Natural abilities, excluding Spellcasting abilities" be broken?

[Kobold-Bard]

Hrm. I'd love to add in granting "Natural Abilities" as well at Epic levels, but I'm a bit leery since quite a few of the Natural Abilities are spellcasting at quite high levels.

However, would adding "You gain all Natural abilities, excluding Spellcasting abilities" be broken?

No, epic progressions are just that, a progression of existing abilities. Something like that is either a seperate epic PrC or an Epic Destiny I'd say.

Also, you need to change the wording to True Shapeshift. As it stands you can use the abilities of your mimic race creatures, but explicitly not your other forms.

[Kittenwolf]

No, epic progressions are just that, a progression of existing abilities. Something like that is either a seperate epic PrC or an Epic Destiny I'd say.

I more meant an Epic Feat rather than granted as an epic progression :)



Also, you need to change the wording to True Shapeshift. As it stands you can use the abilities of your mimic race creatures, but explicitly not your other forms.

Hrm. I hadn't actually planned to allow using the SLAs of the full on Shapeshift forms, it was more supposed to be a bit of oomph at lower levels and a way of making Mimic Race still useful at higher levels.

[Kobold-Bard]

I more meant an Epic Feat rather than granted as an epic progression :)



Hrm. I hadn't actually planned to allow using the SLAs of the full on Shapeshift forms, it was more supposed to be a bit of oomph at lower levels and a way of making Mimic Race still useful at higher levels.

Well then, feel free to ignore me then :smallredface:

[Kittenwolf]

Well then, feel free to ignore me then :smallredface:

You've had far too many good ideas to ignore :D

[Kobold-Bard]

So just to be sure, this was overlapped by the mimic race abilities idea:


...

How about a small pool of the number of SLAs you can use per day. As in "Once per day per three Shapeshifter levels, you can use an SLA that your current form could normally use. This cannot mimic a spell with an expensive material or XP component, or a spell higher level than a Sorcerer of your level could cast" ?

[Kittenwolf]

So just to be sure, this was overlapped by the mimic race abilities idea:

Yep, the plan was:
A few Mimic Races where you get their standard SLAs, but only for those few PC-legal, low LA races.
Then when you get to lvl 10 you start being able to use a few SLAs from the more Monstrous things you can shift into.

[Kobold-Bard]

Yep, the plan was:
A few Mimic Races where you get their standard SLAs, but only for those few PC-legal, low LA races.
Then when you get to lvl 10 you start being able to use a few SLAs from the more Monstrous things you can shift into.

Ahh. I missed the Level 10 ability. D'oh.

But yeah, this has now shot to the top of my "shapeshifting classes that are cooler than the PHB2 Druid" list.

[Kittenwolf]

Hrm. Somehow missed your early comment about Immediate action shapeshifting rather than free action.
Have added Immediate in as a feat, what was your concern/schennanigans with once/round free action shifting? I admit I pulled that one from the Shapechange spell.

[Kobold-Bard]

Hrm. Somehow missed your early comment about Immediate action shapeshifting rather than free action.
Have added Immediate in as a feat, what was your concern/schennanigans with once/round free action shifting? I admit I pulled that one from the Shapechange spell.

I just don't trust free actions tbh. I thought most things got made into immediate/swift actions come 3.5 so free action stuff just looks suspiciously like it was missed in the proof-reading.

[hobbitkniver]

I really like this, this is just the class I was looking for! What tier do you think this would be? I'm thinking 2 or 3.

[Kittenwolf]

I just don't trust free actions tbh. I thought most things got made into immediate/swift actions come 3.5 so free action stuff just looks suspiciously like it was missed in the proof-reading.

Ah, I get you. I think Shapeshift was left alone due to most casters having plenty of other things to do with their Swift actions.


I really like this, this is just the class I was looking for! What tier do you think this would be? I'm thinking 2 or 3.

It's definitely Tier 3, potentially upping into low tier 2 category once you get full SLA access.

[Kittenwolf]

Have now added a feat to allow taking the mental ability scores if you choose. If polymorph any other does it, I see no reason this shouldn't :)

[hobbitkniver]

I hope I can find a game that will let me use this class. Maybe on the forum (I generally don't like homebrew irl because it confuses new people).

[Kobold-Bard]

Does Shapeshifting into a creature with racial weaknesses (eg. Drow light weakness) mean you take on those traits?

The specific example I need help with is Vampires, do you take on all their holy symbol/running water/sunlight/garlic/need an invitation stuff?

[Kittenwolf]

Does Shapeshifting into a creature with racial weaknesses (eg. Drow light weakness) mean you take on those traits?

The specific example I need help with is Vampires, do you take on all their holy symbol/running water/sunlight/garlic/need an invitation stuff?

Sure do :)
Your racial abilities etc are exactly as though you'd added the template "legitimately"