Build Concept: Mystic Fire Warrior-Wizard

[Tokuhara]

Howdy Playgrounders.

Rereading my old books and stumbled across Champions of Valor with Online Updates and saw High-One Warrior-Wizard and Mystic Fire Knight and saw possibilities. Not really "optimized," but would it be possible to semi-optimize using both substitutions? My thought is having Wisdom and Intelligence for my benefits but work as a gish. I don't care really about 9th level spells, but if it is remotely doable, it'd be nice. All books in 3.P are allowed, with homebrew needing to be ran through the DM and the players.

Thanks for the help to all who post.

[erikun]

First thought: Warblade/Warmage/Jade Phoenix Mage, focusing on Desert Wind and fire spells? I haven't looked to determine how well it would work, though.

[Tokuhara]

First thought: Warblade/Warmage/Jade Phoenix Mage, focusing on Desert Wind and fire spells? I haven't looked to determine how well it would work, though.

I had an idea of using Abjurant Champion for 4 levels and Arcane Devotee for 5 levels to accomplish this "Templar of Magic" idea.

Here's the backstory for the character:

Fenris, a half-elf born in the Thayan slums, joined the knight order at a young age, learning the ways of magic and Mystra. One day, he picked up a wizard's spellbook and began secretly studying this musty tome and discovered in his ancestry was a green dragon. The newfound latent dragon blood stirred in his beating heart and prompted him to seek the High-One's order of Wizard/Paladins. After learning their talents, he now acts as a wandering pilgrim, aiding wayward travellers and preaching the word of Mystra.

[Tokuhara]

Bump. I really could use the help

[Coidzor]

There's... just not a whole lot of synergy here to work with as far as I can see. I'm trying to come up with something that these substitution levels really contribute to the build. :smallfrown:

Maybe if the High One Warrior Wizard progressed the mount with wizard levels too instead of just stacking familiar natural armor benefits/int score on it, there'd be a bit more... And yeah, there is the Theurgic Mount feat for that from Dragon, but... :/

Or maybe if the substitution level made them a bit more sturdy in exchange for getting rid of spells per day from the levels that they'd be using to protect themselves in a tussle.

As it is, if you took 'em both to completion you'd be...

a 5th level wizard,
down two spells per day
with -20% ASF
progressing smiting making it as an 11th level paladin
and the ability to lose gaining most benefits and penalties for having a familiar.


a 6th level paladin with a
mount with slightly better natural armor than a 6th level paladin's mount and 2 better Int
the ability to force a somewhat competitive(?) concentration check
1 more paladin spell per day of every paladin spell level he can cast (so one bonus 1st level spell, and one bonus 2nd level spell if progressing to Paladin 8)
This costs, however, the ability to take and power [Divine] feats with turn undead


Facing 11th level challenges.

Sword of the Arcane Order can be taken to mitigate somewhat the loss of your lower level wizard spells, but I'm thinking you'll be a bit feat-starved, and it kinda raises the question of why you aren't just being a more traditional sorcadin.

I think this combo manages to increase the MAD to wanting all 6 stats though, if played along the lines it seems to have been intended to be played of being a lightly armored gish that's casting off of both wisdom and intelligence and using cha for defense and to disrupt enemy casting.

About the only thing I can say of the combo is that it takes away the requirement of having to take the Paladin levels all at once.

From that 11th level base, you can at least have the BAB to directly grab all of the +1 BAB/+1 Spellcasting gish PrCs immediately. So that's Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Dragonslayer 1 to take you to 18th level and 12th level wizard casting. (If feats weren't too much of an issue, IIRC, a half-elf can take bladesinger so that'd be another +1BAB/+1Spellcasting level to take.) 2 levels of sacred exorcist and you get back turn undead and have 14th level wizard casting for 7th level spells.

It'd get you 16 BAB, so there's that, plus your mount, being a familiar, would have half your HP and your BAB, so it's likely superior to a Paladin 20's mount in a few respects, certainly its 16 BAB would be higher than a Heavy Warhorse with 12 HD's 9 BAB.

[Tokuhara]

There's... just not a whole lot of synergy here to work with as far as I can see. I'm trying to come up with something that these substitution levels really contribute to the build. :smallfrown:

Maybe if the High One Warrior Wizard progressed the mount with wizard levels too instead of just stacking familiar natural armor benefits/int score on it, there'd be a bit more... And yeah, there is the Theurgic Mount feat for that from Dragon, but... :/

Or maybe if the substitution level made them a bit more sturdy in exchange for getting rid of spells per day from the levels that they'd be using to protect themselves in a tussle.

As it is, if you took 'em both to completion you'd be...

a 5th level wizard,
down two spells per day
with -20% ASF
progressing smiting making it as an 11th level paladin
and the ability to lose gaining most benefits and penalties for having a familiar.


a 6th level paladin with a
mount with slightly better natural armor than a 6th level paladin's mount and 2 better Int
the ability to force a somewhat competitive(?) concentration check
1 more paladin spell per day of every paladin spell level he can cast (so one bonus 1st level spell, and one bonus 2nd level spell if progressing to Paladin 8)
This costs, however, the ability to take and power [Divine] feats with turn undead


Facing 11th level challenges.

Sword of the Arcane Order can be taken to mitigate somewhat the loss of your lower level wizard spells, but I'm thinking you'll be a bit feat-starved, and it kinda raises the question of why you aren't just being a more traditional sorcadin.

I think this combo manages to increase the MAD to wanting all 6 stats though, if played along the lines it seems to have been intended to be played of being a lightly armored gish that's casting off of both wisdom and intelligence and using cha for defense and to disrupt enemy casting.

About the only thing I can say of the combo is that it takes away the requirement of having to take the Paladin levels all at once.

From that 11th level base, you can at least have the BAB to directly grab all of the +1 BAB/+1 Spellcasting gish PrCs immediately. So that's Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Dragonslayer 1 to take you to 18th level and 12th level wizard casting. (If feats weren't too much of an issue, IIRC, a half-elf can take bladesinger so that'd be another +1BAB/+1Spellcasting level to take.) 2 levels of sacred exorcist and you get back turn undead and have 14th level wizard casting for 7th level spells.

It'd get you 16 BAB, so there's that, plus your mount, being a familiar, would have half your HP and your BAB, so it's likely superior to a Paladin 20's mount in a few respects, certainly its 16 BAB would be higher than a Heavy Warhorse with 12 HD's 9 BAB.

Theurgic Mount, eh? I plan to take it and SotAO. And I chose Wizadin because I saw some
synergy in Smite and familiar/mount. Plus, the flavor of the combo is absolutely awesome. I mean, the Dragon Age-Style templar who hunts his prey by using their talents against them. And if approached as a Themed Character instead of Optimization, then I can foresee inventive ideas being born. I don't want God, I just want functionality.

Edit: I like the build, but with one change: Legacy Champion instead of Dragonslayer. Not saying Dragonslayer isn't good, but my DM claims I will be getting Susanno-O (WoL). He's trying to trip me up...

[Deth Muncher]

Bump. I really could use the help

Don't bump.

Also, if you're trying to have Green Dragon ancestry, have you considered the Forestlord Elves from Dragon Magic? That's all up on that.

Other than that, all I can say is invest in Twilight and/or Mithril armor to mitigate that ASF.

[Tokuhara]

Don't bump.

Also, if you're trying to have Green Dragon ancestry, have you considered the Forestlord Elves from Dragon Magic? That's all up on that.

Other than that, all I can say is invest in Twilight and/or Mithril armor to mitigate that ASF.

Yes, that was my plan
And Twilight Mithril Fulllplate was my armor goal

[Coidzor]

mmm, thistledown padding.

What level are you wanting to actually first have it see play anyway?

[Tokuhara]

mmm, thistledown padding.

What level are you wanting to actually first have it see play anyway?

I'm not 100% sure when per-say, but I know that the campaign will go from 1-30.

[Incanur]

A player in the last campaign I ran did the High-One Warrior Wizard thing out of love for marijuana and bizarre multiclass builds. The character had like 17 Int, 16 Cha, and 10s everywhere else. I ruled the second substitution level stacks damage as well as times per day out of pity.

[Coidzor]

A player in the last campaign I ran did the High-One Warrior Wizard thing out of love for marijuana and bizarre multiclass builds. The character had like 17 Int, 16 Cha, and 10s everywhere else. I ruled the second substitution level stacks damage as well as times per day out of pity.

Oh, wow. I completely misread that and gave it a lot more credit than it was due.

Hmm. So, other than the familiar mount and maybe the -20% ASF, there's not a whole lot going for it.... and baseline familiar mount is probably not going to compare too well with obtain familiar > improved familiar with a more direct gish chassis.

Unless one wanted to go with a dragon steed/dragon cohort familiar mount... :smallconfused: And it all worked...

[Incanur]

The aforementioned character wasn't completely useless, but I don't see much to recommend the build. Paladin nonsense limits roleplaying possibilities and clashes with many gish concepts.