A friend's bet

[Little Brother]

I need some help:

To make a long story short, my friend made a bet with someone at his school's gamer's club. He bet he could beat any character said person threw at him. Said person then claimed that, after everything had been decided, whatever he was using is a level 600 or 1200 or something with 20 levels of every class(He doesn't appear to know what he's talking about). So, my friend turned to me for a little assistance, as I am a bit better than him. So, his initial idea, since he decided to remove all restraints, is something like:

Necropolitan Elven Generalist Wizard X/Tainted Scholar 1/Incantrix X, and to basically negative level him to death with Fell Drain/Enervation.. Other ideas were a cheater of Mysteria and a Tainted Scholar Mailman. The idea was, since what's his face, the person seems to be making crap up as he goes along, he has to deal with basically arbitrary saves/HP, he can work it out, but basically he needs a way to kill the thing with a good several thousand HP in one round (Including time stop/celerity shenanigans), so the thing can't do whatever arbitrary damage, or whatever the guy(Bill, I think), claims.

I know it's petty/whatever, but we both despise the guy, and I agreed to help him, and hit a brick. Any thoughts?

[Zaq]

You're never going to win anything of this nature if you don't make the rules rock-solid ahead of time. Rigidly define what his character is (give it to a neutral third party if he doesn't want you to see it, but make it locked-in), rigidly define what "beat" means, rigidly define the starting conditions/arena/whatever, and don't leave any wiggle room.

Alternatively, if he's going to be silly enough to bring in a level 1,200 character, just Pun-Pun and be done with it, but that's kind of a hollow victory. Whether it's better or worse than chain-gating is a matter of taste.

[ThiefInTheNight]

Seriously, Pun-Pun is by-far the best answer here (never thought I'd say that). Be amusing to see what happens when this guy's absurd character loses to a Kobold Ex-Paladin 1 (I know there are other, better entries, but that one is by-far the most charming).

[Little Brother]

Seriously, Pun-Pun is by-far the best answer here (never thought I'd say that). Be amusing to see what happens when this guy's absurd character loses to a Kobold Ex-Paladin 1 (I know there are other, better entries, but that one is by-far the most charming).My friend gave him the option of levels 1, 3, 10, 20, or 21, and he said twenty. My friend is determined to win within the set rules(I told him to use epic magic and be done with it).

And the condition of "beat" is kill.

And set-up is done at the beginning, so pun-pun won't work.

[Zagaroth]

I agree first of all with Zaq, nail down the level you will be matching, and the set up /starting distance/starting environment.

Now, make a focused class +PrC character, rather than his 20 levels of everything class.

ack, editing for post reply. So only level 20? then how is the opponent being level 1200?

[Mikeavelli]

Do not participate in this.

Down this road lies madness.

If this is now unavoidable due to the bet, show him pun-pun or any other infinite-loop combo and be done with it.

[Vangor]

Clones and celerity.


So, my friend turned to me for a little assistance, as I am a bit better than him.

Your friend made the bet "he" would be able to do this, meaning this would be a proxy victory.


And set-up is done at the beginning, so pun-pun won't work.

PunPun would be setup by the beginning. He needs no setup time which would not be afforded to building a level 20 character.

[Little Brother]

I agree first of all with Zaq, nail down the level you will be matching, and the set up /starting distance/starting environment.

Now, make a focused class +PrC character, rather than his 20 levels of everything class.

ack, editing for post reply. So only level 20? then how is the opponent being level 1200?He's an idiot, and I would like to see the smile off his face


Do not participate in this.

Down this road lies madness.

If this is now unavoidable due to the bet, show him pun-pun or any other infinite-loop combo and be done with it.He's aware, but the psychological effect is what he's going for at this point. We were talking about a Affinity Field loop with what's-it-called for infinite actions, but he wanted to seriously like kill it in one round, not an infinite number of rounds.


Clones and celerity.

Your friend made the bet "he" would be able to do this, meaning this would be a proxy victory.I would like to see the smile off this guy's face, too. From both my friend's and my perspective, he cheated, so I wanna step in.


PunPun would be setup by the beginning. He needs no setup time which would not be afforded to building a level 20 character.

Point.

[AzazelSephiroth]

I am still a little confused by the rules of the engagement... What level is the opponent? 20? 600? or 1200? What class or classes is it? Without this knowledge or at least a 3rd party mediator to confirm that the build is legal, if the opponent wont show his sheet, we cannot know if winning is even an option.

Following that, your friend is building a character of what level? 20? If it is only 20 he doesnt have access to epic spells so that is right out... and if the opponent is actually some sort of level 600 creature then... I am not sure there is a legal or viable method of defeat short of the Pun Pun suggestion which I think is a violation of the natural order and must never be mentioned again:smallwink:

edit: re-read initial post again... You need to know what books at least and classes this so called character you are facing is... if its everything... then it is already pun-pun like and it doesnt matter as it has already destroyed the world and re-built it a thousand times... damn I mentioned him again!

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Pun-Pun gains his power at level 1, so you would have 19 character levels' worth of time for 'set-up' since everything he gives himself is both permanent and impossible to remove.

Since he has an arbitrarily high divine rank, he can just say that none of his opponents' effects exist and crush him with arbitrarily high damage. Or just turn back time to when the opponent was an infant, and crush him before he's even gained 1st level.

Alternatively, make some sort of The Word character with an arbitrarily high UMD check and a Staff of Gate. Find out the opponent's true name and actual race including templates (see the Omniscificer for arbitrarily high Knowledge skill checks). Plane Shift to a plane that he is neither native to nor currently present on, preferably one with a limited magic trait on which no Abjuration effect will function. UMD the Staff of Gate to call him for an immediate task, he gets no saving throw and he is forced to obey for one round per caster level, which is arbitrarily high. Order him to dismiss all of his magical buffs, remove all of his gear both magical and mundane, and lie face down helplessly. CDG him to your heart's content, preferably with untyped damage, though arguably any instantaneous Seed: Reflect or Seed: Ward effects he has will not function anyway due to the limited magic.

[drakir_nosslin]

You can also build the D2 Crusader or something with lightning maces if you want to do a nasty infinite damage kill, though then you also need to figure out how to get past all the magical defenses *cough*Leadership*cough*.

[Fouredged Sword]

level 20 wizard.
Have leadership.
Your cohort is a level 18 factotum
Your minions are all level x wizards and sorcerers.
Have the ability to use circle magic.
Have heighten spell.

Craft a scroll of wish with a spell level of 200 or so in a 9th level scroll my midigated the heighten metamagic (circle magic to pay for it)

Have your cohort read the scroll useign the factotum ability to bypass SR.

Wish the other person dead.

DC 200 save or die.

Get a few ways to force a reroll if your foe happens to roll a 20. Lets see if he can roll a 20 6 times in a row.

[Little Brother]

I am still a little confused by the rules of the engagement... What level is the opponent? 20? 600? or 1200? What class or classes is it? Without this knowledge or at least a 3rd party mediator to confirm that the build is legal, if the opponent wont show his sheet, we cannot know if winning is even an option.

Following that, your friend is building a character of what level? 20? If it is only 20 he doesnt have access to epic spells so that is right out... and if the opponent is actually some sort of level 600 creature then... I am not sure there is a legal or viable method of defeat short of the Pun Pun suggestion which I think is a violation of the natural order and must never be mentioned again:smallwink:

edit: re-read initial post again... You need to know what books at least and classes this so called character you are facing is... if its everything... then it is already pun-pun like and it doesnt matter as it has already destroyed the world and re-built it a thousand times... damn I mentioned him again!

Eh, turns out Pat just went with a Necropolitan tainted scholar with a bunch of metamagic reducers and somewhere within the ballpark of 50,000 taint.

[Tyndmyr]

I need some help:

To make a long story short, my friend made a bet with someone at his school's gamer's club. He bet he could beat any character said person threw at him. Said person then claimed that, after everything had been decided, whatever he was using is a level 600 or 1200 or something with 20 levels of every class(He doesn't appear to know what he's talking about). So, my friend turned to me for a little assistance, as I am a bit better than him. So, his initial idea, since he decided to remove all restraints, is something like:

Necropolitan Elven Generalist Wizard X/Tainted Scholar 1/Incantrix X, and to basically negative level him to death with Fell Drain/Enervation.. Other ideas were a cheater of Mysteria and a Tainted Scholar Mailman. The idea was, since what's his face, the person seems to be making crap up as he goes along, he has to deal with basically arbitrary saves/HP, he can work it out, but basically he needs a way to kill the thing with a good several thousand HP in one round (Including time stop/celerity shenanigans), so the thing can't do whatever arbitrary damage, or whatever the guy(Bill, I think), claims.

I know it's petty/whatever, but we both despise the guy, and I agreed to help him, and hit a brick. Any thoughts?

So, you get 600 levels to work with?

Time to bust out epic spellcasting. If you can't kill anything with that, you're just not trying hard enough.

I would probably also make use of Iot7v. Look, all those buffs you have? They're killing you.

[Gadora]

There's something I don't think I've seen mentioned yet- you're playing rocket tag; you'd best be winning initiative (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=6000.0).

Either that, or look into what you want to prep from the Celerity line of spells.

[Gullintanni]

Pun-Pun gains his power at level 1...

Unless I'm mistaken, Pun Pun at level 1 requires DM participation to work in the form of including Pazuzu in their game universe. By RAW, there's nothing that makes this viable except by DM permission.

In my view, if you're going to submit Pun Pun as entry for this conflict, I believe the Level 6 entry is 100% RAW legal unless the DM starts houseruling, so this would be a more legitimate entry.

...which still doesn't diminish your point any. 19 levels of arbitrarily infinite power are materially no different than 14 levels of the same. I just think the non-Pazuzu entry is cleaner.

[The Glyphstone]

So, you get 600 levels to work with?

Time to bust out epic spellcasting. If you can't kill anything with that, you're just not trying hard enough.

I would probably also make use of Iot7v. Look, all those buffs you have? They're killing you.

No, it's a level 20 character fighting a level 600 character.

[Fouredged Sword]

Your best bet is then a mix of tainted scholar and circle magic to make a SOD effect with an imposible save. VS a 600th level character, count on a save that is in the low thousands.

Then apply SR. no useing a factotum cohort.

Negative levels are subject to negative energy immunity, and cannot be counted on. Wish is likely your best bet for getting around immunities.

[Telonius]

Eh, turns out Pat just went with a Necropolitan tainted scholar with a bunch of metamagic reducers and somewhere within the ballpark of 50,000 taint.

With 600 levels to work with, you can get Greater Celerity. You win initiative. Make sure you can overcome his spell resistance. Quicken Sanctify the Wicked; when he uses his Depravity score on that one, follow up with an additional Sanctify the Wicked. When a year passes, he will want to be good. Show up two rounds before he arrives, and ready an action to cast Wish or Miracle. Being Good, he wants to remove his Taint and Depravity scores. Wish or Miracle to lower the score to the highest threshhold of the next lowest taint/depravity score.

Alternately, build a diplomancer who's capable of casting Greater Celerity and spam Command Undead. There is no cap on the level or hitdice of the target. He's one will save and a Diplomacy check away from being your best friend, and unable to attack you for days/level. Added bonus of defeating him with a 2nd-level spell.

EDIT: I might have misread something there ... is the Tainted Scholar the guy we're trying to beat, or has Our Hero chosen to use Tainted Scholar cheese?

[GeekGirl]

It sounds like he read this (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/The_Wish_and_the_Word_(3.5e_Optimized_Character_Bu ild)), or a similar article about the same builds. Good luck, wish i could help more :/

[Greenish]

cheater of MysteriaHer name is Mystra.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

At level 21 a character can have Epic Spellcasting, and use instantaneous duration Seed: Reflect and Seed: Ward epic spells to gain immunity to every effect in the game, and not just immunity, but every point of damage would be reflected back to the attacker. With an instantaneous duration, there's no ongoing spell effect that can be dispelled or suppressed short of divine intervention, gaining those effects is just like using Wish to gain an ability score point. Which is why you use the Gate and then repeatedly CDG with untyped damage, because you cannot Seed: Reflect or Seed: Ward untyped damage. Otherwise a contest like this is completely pointless unless you use Pun-Pun.

[cd4]

How about you manifest Death Urge (XPH/SRD) and cause him to fail his will save then he has to attack himself!:smallbiggrin: For several rounds!

[Prime32]

"Okay, so let's roll initiative versus your, heh, level 6 character."
"Actually I have an ability which lets me go first automatically."
"Oh? Then what are you going to do?"
"Permanently kill everything in the multiverse with no save. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#massLifeAndDeath)"

[Little Brother]

So, you get 600 levels to work with?

Time to bust out epic spellcasting. If you can't kill anything with that, you're just not trying hard enough.

I would probably also make use of Iot7v. Look, all those buffs you have? They're killing you.
Below

No, it's a level 20 character fighting a level 600 character.
This

Her name is Mystra.
*Checks*
So it is.

EDIT: I might have misread something there ... is the Tainted Scholar the guy we're trying to beat, or has Our Hero chosen to use Tainted Scholar cheese?

He went with Tainted Scholar

And turns out whats-his-face didn't show, club was cancelled, so we got another week to work with

And Prime, how are we supposed to get divine rank without Pun-Pun?

*Oh, yeah, he said no to pun-pun/omnicificer/infinite loops that aren't flat damage. Dunno, he can be weird about these things. We were planning on using contingent celerity to win initiative.

And, for clarity, we have 20 levels to work with.

[Wings of Peace]

Below

This

*Checks*
So it is.


He went with Tainted Scholar

And turns out whats-his-face didn't show, club was cancelled, so we got another week to work with

And Prime, how are we supposed to get divine rank without Pun-Pun?

*Oh, yeah, he said no to pun-pun/omnicificer/infinite loops that aren't flat damage. Dunno, he can be weird about these things. We were planning on using contingent celerity to win initiative.

And, for clarity, we have 20 levels to work with.

What qualifies as an infinite loop? Is a loop an uncontrollable and self feeding infinite like two Affinity Fields or is a loop something like Body Fuel/Strongheart Vest that can be exploited for an infinite profit? It matters because if it's the second case then abusing Tainted Scholar with infinite Taint tolerance cheese could also be seen as a loop.

[AMFV]

Your only option is Mathemancy... After he rolls or states the number of damage or any number, challenge it. Then demand to see his work on how he got it. This will bog down the challenge for likely long enough for your friend to be declared the victor by default (as it was not his supposed math error).

[Gadora]

He went with Tainted Scholar

And turns out whats-his-face didn't show, club was cancelled, so we got another week to work with

And Prime, how are we supposed to get divine rank without Pun-Pun?

*Oh, yeah, he said no to pun-pun/omnicificer/infinite loops that aren't flat damage. Dunno, he can be weird about these things. We were planning on using contingent celerity to win initiative.

And, for clarity, we have 20 levels to work with.

Wait, you're buddy's the one going tainted scholar? This leads me to ask a simple question: if you feel that your buddy's opponent is cheating, why are you not calling him on it?

[Little Brother]

Wait, you're buddy's the one going tainted scholar? This leads me to ask a simple question: if you feel that your buddy's opponent is cheating, why are you not calling him on it?

'Cuz destroying the guy is more amusing. He's a jerk, Pat thinks it'd be better to trash him than deal with the earache.

[Telonius]

Okay, so the situation is:
Level 20 Tainted Scholar, Necropolitan, taint somehow around 50,000 or so

VS

Level (indeterminate - 600?), 20 in each base class. Assuming that alignment difficulties have been handwaved (he can both use his Paladin abilities and Barbarian Rage, for example).


It sounds like the biggest thing your guy has going for him, is a ridiculously high saving throw on his spells.

On the other side: very high saves, every spell in the game, truly ridiculous numbers of feats, Epic feats, epic-level skill checks (though not epic casting), a big mess of inherent boosts to ability scores, and (almost certainly) the ability to do a Greater Turning if he knows there's an Undead coming after him.

Greater Turning alone means that your friend absolutely has to win initiative. Turn resistance granted by Necropolitan is going to be useless against him - with that many levels, his ability scores (including Charisma) will be in the stratosphere. If the Tainted Scholar doesn't go first, he dies, no save. If both he and the other guy have Celerity prepared somehow, it's really DM's call as to who goes first.

[The Glyphstone]

His saves won't be that great unless he uses an Epic Ward - he'll have, at maximum, +312+stat mod+gear+random bonuses - extremely unlikely to exceed +500, which a Taint score of 50,000 will leave crying in the corner.




If both he and the other guy have Celerity prepared somehow, it's really DM's call as to who goes first.


Actually, this is why pumping Initiative as high as possible matters. If he wins intiative and you Celerity, he can pre-empt your Celerity with his own Celerity. If you win initative, either you go first, or he Celeritys and you use your Celerity to still go first...so if both sides hav Celerity, its basically back to an Initiative rolloff.

[Zaq]

Regarding initiative . . . just Shapechange into a dire tortoise. You get a surprise round, even if there isn't one. If he doesn't pull the same trick, you're golden.

[Silva Stormrage]

One option is to use D2 crusader for infinite damage paired with a limited wish for an auto hit.

Use a magical stave to avoid iron guard and that should one hit KO him with infinite damage.

Probably something wrong with this idea though at that level I am not sure if the opponent is immune to damage. Actually at that level I wonder how he COULDN'T be immune to all damage...

[Little Brother]

Okay, so the situation is:
Level 20 Tainted Scholar, Necropolitan, taint somehow around 50,000 or so

VS

Level (indeterminate - 600?), 20 in each base class. Assuming that alignment difficulties have been handwaved (he can both use his Paladin abilities and Barbarian Rage, for example).


It sounds like the biggest thing your guy has going for him, is a ridiculously high saving throw on his spells.

On the other side: very high saves, every spell in the game, truly ridiculous numbers of feats, Epic feats, epic-level skill checks (though not epic casting), a big mess of inherent boosts to ability scores, and (almost certainly) the ability to do a Greater Turning if he knows there's an Undead coming after him.

Greater Turning alone means that your friend absolutely has to win initiative. Turn resistance granted by Necropolitan is going to be useless against him - with that many levels, his ability scores (including Charisma) will be in the stratosphere. If the Tainted Scholar doesn't go first, he dies, no save. If both he and the other guy have Celerity prepared somehow, it's really DM's call as to who goes first.That's what I was thinking, though I don't *THINK* he knows about contingent celerities, which is the only chance the Wizard has to survive. Does anyone know any safer ways to do it?

And I don't think 50,000 is that unreasonable in comparison to a level 600+ thing, especially when you're immortal. A baby a day keeps the goodness away. Especially with ketchup. Thousands of years of burning orphanages and camping/spawnkilling/teabagging will accumulate fast.

His saves won't be that great unless he uses an Epic Ward - he'll have, at maximum, +312+stat mod+gear+random bonuses - extremely unlikely to exceed +500, which a Taint score of 50,000 will leave crying in the corner.




Actually, this is why pumping Initiative as high as possible matters. If he wins intiative and you Celerity, he can pre-empt your Celerity with his own Celerity. If you win initative, either you go first, or he Celeritys and you use your Celerity to still go first...so if both sides hav Celerity, its basically back to an Initiative rolloff.

Given that this thing has dexterity of absurdly high, I don't think it's possible to win. Eager warning shortswork+say, 16+5+6 with Improved initiative is, what 14+whatever the weapon give you. Not enough, I think

[NoldorForce]

*Oh, yeah, he said no to pun-pun/omnicificer/infinite loops that aren't flat damage. Dunno, he can be weird about these things. We were planning on using contingent celerity to win initiative.The meaning of this really needs to be pinned down. Pun-Pun doesn't have to do anything infinite if you don't want to; doing so just makes things easier. With a finite (but still large) quantity of abilities you can still do anything you like.

But let's assume that you have minimal preparation time. Be a Wizard 5/Dweomerkeeper 8/Spellsword 4/Heir of Syberis 3. (You can qualify for divine casting with Southern Magician and for the domain with Arcane Disciple.) Also take Mark of the Dauntless and Mark of Stars as feats. Note that you JUST BARELY have access to 9th-level spells. As part of your gear, get a small blue ice statue of some nondescript woman. Strap it to your chest or some other easily accessible location. And carry a staff of Time Stop. (I would find it very odd if gear were not equipped as a courtesy beforehand.) You'll also want as many Contingent Greater Celerities (CGCs) as you can get on yourself. Key them to various obscure words; you're going to be setting them off by chatting.

Now when the fight begins, just say one of those words. Mark of Stars allows you to never be flat-footed (allowing you to speak, a free action that can be taken out of turn), and Mark of the Dauntless ensures that there's no penalty for using the CGCs. So you've got a standard action and a move action, what are you going to do with them?

Use a move action to channel Supernatural Ice Assassin into your dagger, and a standard action to attack the statue with your dagger. With sufficiently low Strength (easy), you won't be able to damage the statue. But you will be able to hit it, turning it into, well, this lady:
http://images.wikia.com/forgottenrealms/images/8/88/Mystra_p51-1-.jpg
That's right, Mystra. Or at least a copy under your control.

To ensure your "statue" can do anything, use another CGC to cast Time Stop from the staff. As per Ice Assassin, both of you can act. Tell her to make a few friends with Alter Reality -> Ice Assassin. They needn't be copies of each other (which only makes things more messy), but instead copies of the original deity. Yes, Alter Reality is normally a standard action, but magic is definitely within her purview as a goddess, allowing her to use it as a (limited-per-round) free action.

The sky's the limit from here. All of your frozen friends can cast whatever spells they like to bring down your opponent. Or use other SDAs, like Deny Weave. (I'm guessing your opponent hasn't thought about the Shadow Weave.) If he tries to cast anything...nope, Instant Counterspell. Attack or move? Not with Celerity+MDJ/Wall of [whatever]/Gate/Reverse Gravity.

I remember a discussion on BG about the relative merits of epic spellcasting and Alter Reality. Someone made the astute observation that the former was a game of Mother, May I?; the latter was Magical Tea Party.

[drakir_nosslin]

If you want to avoid the turning problem but still want to use tainted scholar without risking damage from taint play a race with the [Evil] tag, they are immune to the negative effects of taint IIRC.

[Raendyn]

level 20 wizard.
Have leadership.
Your cohort is a level 18 factotum
Your minions are all level x wizards and sorcerers.
Have the ability to use circle magic.
Have heighten spell.

Craft a scroll of wish with a spell level of 200 or so in a 9th level scroll my midigated the heighten metamagic (circle magic to pay for it)

Have your cohort read the scroll useign the factotum ability to bypass SR.

Wish the other person dead.

DC 200 save or die.

Get a few ways to force a reroll if your foe happens to roll a 20. Lets see if he can roll a 20 6 times in a row.

If only heighten was not limited by the feat itself up to ninth...

[Cruiser1]

Plane Shift to a plane that he is neither native to nor currently present on, preferably one with a limited magic trait on which no Abjuration effect will function.All high level casters should wear the Vestments of Steadfast Spellcasting magic item from Planar Handbook (only 25K gold). It allows the wearer to ignore the magic trait of a plane (such as limited magic) and cast spells normally. Perfect to avoid getting trapped in planes such as the above, and allows one to be more effective in the Outlands when close to the Spire. :smallsmile:

[The Glyphstone]

Given that this thing has dexterity of absurdly high, I don't think it's possible to win. Eager warning shortswork+say, 16+5+6 with Improved initiative is, what 14+whatever the weapon give you. Not enough, I think

Depends on your definition of Absurdly High. Let's assume an 18 starting Dex, and he dumps all 150 level-up points into Dexterity, for a ending Dex modifier of +129. I'm sure, with sufficient cheese, we can at least equal that. And if he does, his save DCs for any magical/supernatural abilities will be awful (at best, DC26-28) and his damage output will be very low with only Str18-30+weapon.

[Little Brother]

I remember a discussion on BG about the relative merits of epic spellcasting and Alter Reality. Someone made the astute observation that the former was a game of Mother, May I?; the latter was Magical Tea Party.
Please explain the last sentence. Also, books? I am interested.

Depends on your definition of Absurdly High. Let's assume an 18 starting Dex, and he dumps all 150 level-up points into Dexterity, for a ending Dex modifier of +129. I'm sure, with sufficient cheese, we can at least equal that. And if he does, his save DCs for any magical/supernatural abilities will be awful (at best, DC26-28) and his damage output will be very low with only Str18-30+weapon.Hmmm, okay. Makes sense. Never really looked up how to, how high can we get initiative.

[NoldorForce]

Please explain the last sentence. Also, books? I am interested.The full discussion's here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=11480.20), but suffice it to say that epic spellcasting is limited by your DM while Alter Reality is limited by your imagination.

Anyway, books:
-Dweomerkeeper: Complete Divine web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20040522a).
-Spellsword: Complete Warrior.
-Heir of Syberis: Eberron Campaign Setting.
-Southern Magician: Races of Faerun.
-Arcane Disciple: Complete Divine.
-Mark of the Dauntless, Mark of Stars: Dragonmarked.
-Contingent Spell (item creation feat): Complete Arcane.
-Greater Celerity: Player's Handbook 2.
-Ice Assassin: Frostburn.
-Mystra, Deny Weave: Faiths and Pantheons.
-Alter Reality and other Salient Divine Abilities: SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#alterReality).

Note: Strictly speaking, these tactics are possible for anyone who can cast Ice Assassin, including your opponent. What I'm banking on is that he's not terribly clever; otherwise his build would be more focused than level 20's in a variety of orthogonal classes.

[Fouredged Sword]

The issue with that is you are required to be both in eberon and faerun (I think that is where mystra is).

[NoldorForce]

The issue with that is you are required to be both in eberon and faerun (I think that is where mystra is).I would suspect that given the open parameters of the challenge, mixing settings isn't all that bad.

[Bovine Colonel]

Hold on, your friend took the bet KNOWING that it was level 20 vs level 600? :smallconfused:

If not, call the jerk out on it and demand a fair contest.

[Zagaroth]

*puts idea on the right thread*

Oh, I came up with an idea. ANd yes, I do love warlocks. What about it? :wink:

I call this the Attritionlock and it has a lot of flexibility, because it has only a few key invocations and feats.

Key feats:
Weapon Focus (Eldritch Blast)
Vile Martial Strike (Eldritch Blast). Now you inflict 1 point of vile damage with every hit! this is to keep him from healing with out retreating to a hallowed location.


Key Invocations:
Utterdark Blast
Eldritch Spear OR Eldritch Cone (If you think you can make him fail his Ref save more often than you can hit his touch AC). Pref. both for options
Fell Flight
Flee the Seen

Other avoidance abilities are good to take too.

Your goal: Stay alive, wear him down. He takes 1 point of difficult-to-heal damage every hit, and at a minimum one out of every 20 hits gives him 2 negative levels. Which strip away high level spells and inflict penalties, making him easier to hit and more likely to fail a save.

Note that your fast healing ability recharges every day whether you sleep or nto. Spells require an hour of prep time to recharge, and sleep.

Thoughts? ideas? enhancements?

[NNescio]

*puts idea on the right thread*

Oh, I came up with an idea. ANd yes, I do love warlocks. What about it? :wink:

I call this the Attritionlock and it has a lot of flexibility, because it has only a few key invocations and feats.

Key feats:
Weapon Focus (Eldritch Blast)
Vile Martial Strike (Eldritch Blast). Now you inflict 1 point of vile damage with every hit! this is to keep him from healing with out retreating to a hallowed location.


Key Invocations:
Utterdark Blast
Eldritch Spear OR Eldritch Cone (If you think you can make him fail his Ref save more often than you can hit his touch AC). Pref. both for options
Fell Flight
Flee the Seen

Other avoidance abilities are good to take too.

Your goal: Stay alive, wear him down. He takes 1 point of difficult-to-heal damage every hit, and at a minimum one out of every 20 hits gives him 2 negative levels. Which strip away high level spells and inflict penalties, making him easier to hit and more likely to fail a save.

Note that your fast healing ability recharges every day whether you sleep or nto. Spells require an hour of prep time to recharge, and sleep.

Thoughts? ideas? enhancements?

...

And how does that help against the cheater a level 600 character?

[Zagaroth]

You stay at range (250 feet if I recall) and blast away. Combine with some items (which I look to others for right now) for help staying alive (remember, no single spell will have more than 20 levels of power behind it). Basically use guerrilla style action to wear him down. The negative levels keep stacking, and the vile damage keeps stacking. Harass him to death.

Now,t he hard part is staying alive long enough to carry this out. Cloak of displacement and hope he doesn't have True Seeing prepared? it doesn't sound like the guy has a lot of OP experience.

Shadow blend + deeper darkness works too, but I don't know of a non-racial way to get Shadow Blend. Shadow Dancer gets Hide in Plain Sight instead.

Level 20 AoEs hurt. Of course, that is part of what the negative levels are for. Strip away his spells.

Note that if you are prepared against being fatigued, you can keep bouncing back for days game time if needed. He'll fail some of those saves vs negative levels, that he starts getting permanently weaker. Do not let him rest & recover spells!

oh, and Ring of Improved Evasion is your friend too.

[NNescio]

You stay at range (250 feet if I recall) and blast away. Combine with some items (which I look to others for right now) for help staying alive (remember, no single spell will have more than 20 levels of power behind it). Basically use guerrilla style action to wear him down. The negative levels keep stacking, and the vile damage keeps stacking. Harass him to death.

Now,t he hard part is staying alive long enough to carry this out. Cloak of displacement and hope he doesn't have True Seeing prepared? it doesn't sound like the guy has a lot of OP experience.

Shadow blend + deeper darkness works too, but I don't know of a non-racial way to get Shadow Blend. Shadow Dancer gets Hide in Plain Sight instead.

Level 20 AoEs hurt. Of course, that is part of what the negative levels are for. Strip away his spells.

Note that if you are prepared against being fatigued, you can keep bouncing back for days game time if needed. He'll fail some of those saves vs negative levels, that he starts getting permanently weaker. Do not let him rest & recover spells!

oh, and Ring of Improved Evasion is your friend too.

Rope Trick. GG.

Also Teleport and Planeshift.

Scry, Contact Other Plane, True Seeing, Greater Invisibility...

Deathward.

Shapechange -> Iron Golem

Your build can be taken apart by a Level 17 Wizard.

Now, maybe he's an idiot and will just sit around and blast you with AoE spells, but once you weaken him enough he's going to notice that he can teleport. And then come back.

[Zagaroth]

Probably. Which Is why I was wondering if there was a way to work around the build's weaknesses with items.

Honestly, if the levels were closer, say, 60 vs 600 instead, the epic warlock feats would help insanely much. Hmmm, can you plane shift into a dimensional bubble?

And the "20 of every class"guy does not sound like a smart player. So I thought it'd be fun to wear him down and make him cry from a simple build concept like this. Warlock is no tier 1 or even 2, but you can pull some fun endurance tricks against the right foes.

Oh, and there should be a time limit on deciding one's moves. Say, 60 seconds? timed? Keep the pressure on the guy, and he might crack. Win by default when he runs away crying :-D

Seriously, this is not a uber-build. It's designed to work against the player more than the character.