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Grod_The_Giant
2011-09-26, 10:05 PM
The Speedster/Windrunner


http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/uploads/flash1.jpg
Not this guy.

Now you see me, now you're dead.
--Taranh the Oncoming Storm, a noted elven Speedster.

Abilities: Dexterity is the most important ability for a Speedster, granting more uses of most of his high-level abilities and helping make up for his inability to wear armor. Strength is important for any melee class, improving his attack and damage, although the bonus damage from a Blitzkrieg Strike can partially make up for a low strength score. A good Constitution score can help make up for his lower hit die.
Starting Age: As Monk
Starting Gold: As Monk
Hit Die: d8

The Speedster’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex),Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at 1st level: (4+Int modifier) x4
Skill Points at each additional level: 4+Int modifier

{table=head]Level|Base Attack|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|Speed Bonus
1|+1|+0|+2|+0|Blitzkrieg Strike 1/encounter, Fast Movement, Rapid Response, Run|+10 ft
2|+2|+0|+3|+0|Speed Armor, Speed Stealth, All-Terrain (earth)|+ 10 ft
3|+3|+1|+3|+1|Mobile Strike, Uncanny Dodge|+ 20 ft
4|+4|+1|+4|+1|All-Terrain (sea), Evasion|+ 20 ft
5|+5|+1|+4|+1|Charge Mastery, Blitzkrieg Strike 2/encounter|+ 30 ft
6|+6/+1|+2|+5|+2|All-Terrain (walls)|+ 30 ft
7|+7/+2|+2|+5|+2|Charge Mastery|+ 40 ft
8|+8/+3|+2|+6|+2|All-Terrain (air)|+ 40 ft
9|+9/+4|+3|+6|+3|Charge Mastery, Improved Uncanny Dodge|+ 50 ft
10|+10/+5|+3|+7|+3|Bob and Weave, All-Terrain (ethereal), Blitzkrieg Strike 3/encounter|+ 50 ft
11|+11/+6/+1|+3|+7|+3|Charge Mastery, Improved Speed Ability|+ 60 ft
12|+12/+7/+2|+4|+8|+4|Faster than Sound|+ 60 ft
13|+13/+8/+3|+4|+8|+4|Improved Evasion|+ 70 ft
14|+14/+9/+4|+4|+9|+4|Faster than Light|+ 70 ft
15|+15/+10/+5|+5|+9|+5|Speed Healing, Blitzkrieg Strike 4/encounter|+ 80 ft
16|+16/+11/+6/+1|+5|+10|+5|Faster than Reality|+ 80 ft
17|+17/+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|+5|Improved Blitzkrieg Strike|+ 90 ft
18|+18/+13/+8/+3|+6|+11|+6|Faster than Space|+ 90 ft
19|+19/+14/+9/+4|+6|+11|+6|Gravatic Strike|+ 100 ft
20|+20/+15/+10/+5|+6|+12|+6|Faster than Time, Blitzkrieg Strike 5/encounter|+ 100 ft[/table]


Game Rule Information

Weapon and Armor Proficiency- A Speedster is proficient with all simple weapons and light martial weapons. He is not proficient with any kind of armor or shield. If he wears armor of any sort, he loses access to all of his Speedster abilities.

Blitzkrieg Strike (Ex)- A Speedster knows how to harness his speed to deadly effect. Once per encounter, he can make a Blitzkrieg strike. To do so, he must make a charge attack, forfeiting the normal bonus to attack. If he hits, he deals extra damage equal to 2 points per ten feet moved. For example, if a 7th level human speedster charges 140ft, his Blitzkrieg Strike deals an extra 28 damage. This ability can be used once per encounter. At 5th level, and every subsequent 5th level thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th), a Speedster can use this ability one extra time. He can only apply the extra damage once per charge, and you can never deal more than 10 times your class level Blitzkrieg Strike damage in a single turn.

Fast Movement (Ex)- At 1st level, a Speedster gains a +10ft enhancement bonus to his speed. This bonus improves by 10 feet every other level, to a maximum of +100 feet at 19th level. He loses this ability if he wears medium or heavy armor, or carries a medium or heavy load.

Rapid Response (Ex)- A Speedster’s reflexes cannot be equaled. He adds his Speedster level to his initiative.

Run- At first level, a Speedster gains Run as a bonus feat.

Speed Armor (Ex)- At 2nd level, a Speedster gains the Speed Armor ability. He gains a +1 dodge bonus to armor class for every 20ft he moves. For example, if a 7th level speedster moved eighty feet, his Speed Armor bonus would be +4. Against attacks of opportunity provoked by movement, this bonus is doubled. This ability goes into effect as soon as the movement begins, and ends at the beginning of the Speedster’s next turn. At 11th level, this bonus improves to +1/10ft moved. He cannot use both Speed Armor and Speed Stealth at the same time.

Speed Stealth (Ex)- At 2nd level, a Speedster learns how to stay hidden while moving quickly. When hiding or moving silently (or both) and moving at a speed greater than one-half but less than his base speed, he only takes a -2 penalty. At 11th level, he gains concealment when moving at more than half his base speed. He cannot use both Speed Stealth and Speed Armor at the same time.

All-Terrain- A Speedster can run through terrain that would make any other man stop in his tracks. As long as he ends his movement on a solid square, he gains the following abilities:

At 2nd level, he can move through difficult terrain with no reduction in speed. He can also take 10 on Balance checks.
At 4th level, he can run across water and other non-solid surfaces, as though affected by a Water Walk spell. He can also take 10 on Swim checks.
At 6th level, he can run across vertical walls and ceilings, as though affected by a Spider Climb spell. He can also take 10 on Climb checks.
At 8th level, he can run through thin air, as though affected by a Air Walk spell, although without the ability to fall gently if he is somehow halted in mid-air. He can also take 10 on Jump checks.
At 10th level, he can run through solid objects, as though he was ethereal. He must end his movement in an unoccupied square. He can also take 10 on Escape Artist checks.

Mobile Strike (Ex)- At 3rd level, a Speedster can attack without ever slowing down. When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. This ability is in all ways identical to the Spring attack feat, and can be used to replace it to qualify for prestige classes and the like.

At 6th level, a Speedster can make a second attack during his Mobile Strike. He gains a third Mobile Strike at 11th level, and a fourth at 16th level.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex)- Starting at 3th level, a Speedster can react to danger before his senses would normally allow him to do so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized.

If he already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.

Evasion (Ex)- At 4nd level and higher, a Speedster can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the Speedster is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Speedster does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Charge Mastery- At 5rd, 7th, 9th, and 11th levels, a Speedster can gains a special ability of his choice from among the following options:

Acrobatic Charge- While charging, you gain an untyped bonus to Balance, Jump, and Tumble checks equal to your bonus to speed. For example, a 7th level Speedster gains a +40 bonus to Tumble checks while charging.
Hit and Run- attack without slowing down. This ability functions like the Ride-By Attack feat, except that he need not be mounted to use it. He can combine this ability with his Blitzkrieg Strike, dealing damage for the FULL distance moved, as long as he moves at least half the total distance before striking-- any less, and he's still accelerating, and only deals damage for the distance he's traveled before hitting his foe.
Dancing Charge- When charging, the Speedster has a limited ability to change direction. For every 10 feet of movement, he can turn 45 degrees. This ability works similarly to a clumsy maneuverability while flying.
Effortless Charge- A Speedster must have already taken Dancing Charge to take this ability. When making a Dancing Charge, he can turn 45 degrees for every 5 feet of movement.
Pounce- Make a full attack at the end of a charge.
Blitzkrieg Fury- If you wield two or more weapons, you may apply Blitzkrieg strike damage to the first attack made with each weapon. The ten times class level damage cap still applies. A Speedster must have Pounce to take this ability.
Cheetah's Sprint- Once per day, a Speedster may move ten times his speed when he makes a charge.


Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex)- At 9th level and higher, a Speedster can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the Speedster by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has Speedster levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level a rogue must be to flank the character.

Bob and Weave (Ex)- At 10th level, a Speedster is so fast and agile that he no longer provokes attacks of opportunity due to movement.

Faster Than (Su)- A high-level Speedster is capable of burst of speed so great that they shatter the normal laws of the universe. If the spell he is emulating normally allows him to bring along other creatures, he can carry a number of Medium-sized creatures equal to his Strength modifier. He can use each Faster Than ability a number of times per day equal to his Dexterity modifier.
Faster than Sound- At 12th level, a Speedster can spur himself to speeds much greater than normal. Activating this ability is a swift action, and grants the Speedster an extra move action for the turn. In contrast to the other Faster Than abilities, he can use this power a number of times per day equal to twice his Dexterity modifier.
Faster than Light- At 14th level, a Speedster can move so fast that he appears to teleport. This ability functions as a Dimension Door spell with a caster level equal to the Speedster’s class level, with the following exception. The Speedster need not be able to see his target, and isn’t affected by Dimension Lock and similar effects, but he must be potentially able to reach his target on foot, using his All-Terrain ability and suchlike.
Faster than Reality- At 16th level, a Speedster can move so fast he shatters the boundaries of the universe. This ability functions as a Plane Shift spell with a caster level equal to the Speedster’s class level.
Faster than Space- At 18th level, a Speedster can hit even more impossible speeds. This ability functions identically to Faster than Sound, but emulates a Greater Teleport spell.
Faster than Time- At 20th level, a Speedster can outrun time itself. This ability functions as a Time Stop spell with a caster level to the Speedster’s class level. During the period of stopped time, he moves at half speed and cannot use his Speed Heal or any other Faster Than abilities.

Improved Evasion (Ex)- At 13th level, a Speedster’s evasion ability improves. He still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless Speedster does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Speed Healing- At 15th level, a Speedster can focus his speed inwards, healing his wounds. As a standard action, he can grant himself fast healing 10 for a number of rounds equal to his dexterity modifier. However, while he is healing and for 1d4 rounds afterwards, he cannot use his Blitzkrieg Strike, Speed Armor or Stealth, All-Terrain or Faster Than abilities. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to one-half his Dexterity modifier.

Improved Blitzkrieg Strike (Ex)- At 17th level, a Speedster’s Blitzkrieg Strike now deals 4 extra points of damage per 10 feet moved. The ten times class level damage cap still applies.

Gravitic Strike: At 19th level, a Speedster with this ability can focus incredible force into a single strike. As a full round action, he can move and make one single melee attack against his opponent. He must move at least 100ft before making a Gravitic Strike. If the attack hits, his opponent makes a Fort save (DC 20 + Speedster's Con mod), if he fails his body is torn apart by the forces, instantly killing him. If he succeeds he takes standard damage for the Speedster's attack, plus 20d6. He can use this ability a number of times per day equal to one-half his Dexterity modifier.

Pyromancer999
2011-09-26, 10:25 PM
You know what this could really use? A table.

Kittenwolf
2011-09-26, 10:39 PM
Hrm. I like the idea, but honestly I think the later level abilities should be gained sooner (ie, Walk on Air as a capstone ability is very weak, especially with the caveat of having to end your turn on solid ground. There is a soulmeld that grants that ability from level one).

Since speed is entirely his thing, I'd suggest granting bounding assault etc at the same level he gains his second/third (forth?) attacks, I'd also suggest adding in Cheetah Charge towards middle levels.

For a capstone type ability.. I think something more like:
Gravitic Strike: A Speedster with this ability can focus incredible force into a single strike.
As a full round action a Speedster can move and make one single strike against his opponent. He must move at least 100ft before making a Gravitic Strike. This punch moves so fast that the opponent is considered flat footed against it. If the strike hits his opponent makes a fort save (DC20+Speedster's Con mod), if he fails his body is torn apart by the forces, instantly killing him. If he succeeds he takes standard damage for the Speedster's attack, plus 20d6.

Oh, and take a squiz at the Swiftblade from the Wizards website, some of the abilities there, like auto-haste, extra partial actions and concealment when moving would be perfect for this guy.

Hanuman
2011-09-26, 10:42 PM
Skate would be nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g29FkNIGqcc

Class name suggestion:
Onslaught

As for other things, I'd like to see something like the Brass Man's flatten attack, a fort save knockdown slam attack, also there's not a lot of bull rushes here.

drakir_nosslin
2011-09-27, 04:06 AM
In many ways this feels more like a prestige class to me. It has a very narrow focus on abilities (charge, charge and more charge) while a base class traditionally can be used for several different play styles.
Besides that this class can't really do that much. Sure it's fast, but there's very little utility, and to be frank it looks like it would be quite boring to play an entire campaign with. It's like the fighter, but instead of full attacking you charge every round.
Also, this class needs pounce, badly.

Grod_The_Giant
2011-09-27, 10:39 AM
I definitely see what you guys are saying about lack of versatility. Once I finished designing the main features (speed armor, blitzkrieg strike), I couldn't really think of what other rolls he could fill. Stealth, maybe? Mote skill points, and maybe the ability to sacrifice Speed Armor to reduce hide/move silently penalties for running?


Hrm. I like the idea, but honestly I think the later level abilities should be gained sooner (ie, Walk on Air as a capstone ability is very weak, especially with the caveat of having to end your turn on solid ground. There is a soulmeld that grants that ability from level one).

You may be right. I was having trouble finding cool high-level abilities. Hmm... maybe something that lets him move his full speed and make one attack against everyone he passes?


Since speed is entirely his thing, I'd suggest granting bounding assault etc at the same level he gains his second/third (forth?) attacks, I'd also suggest adding in Cheetah Charge towards middle levels.

Good ideas, although a Blitzkrieg Cheetah Charge might be mildly broken. At 10th level, without any magic items, a human Speedster could potentially charge 800 feet to deal 160 extra damage. That's enough to one-hit pretty much any CR10 monster in the SRD, assuming average health.


For a capstone type ability.. I think something more like:
Gravitic Strike: yadda yadda yadda

Ooh, I like that.



In many ways this feels more like a prestige class to me. It has a very narrow focus on abilities (charge, charge and more charge) while a base class traditionally can be used for several different play styles.

Goddamnit, I hate it when someone makes a suggestion that's so right it invalidates everything I've done.


Besides that this class can't really do that much.

Do you have any suggestions about what I could add to make it more versatile? As he is now, the big focus is on his Blitzkrieg strike, hence all the charge-boosting abilities.


Also, this class needs pounce, badly.

I had that in for a while, but replaced it with hit and run. It felt more appropriate than a pounce, which is, after all, a "jump into battle and stay there" type deal. If he wants lots of attacks, that's what the spring attack chain is for.

Also, I put up a table. I'm still playing around with changes, though, so it's not updated to the ideas down here.

GFawkes
2011-09-27, 11:37 AM
Seems like a good idea, but I'd have to agree that it seems more like a prestige class than anything else.

On another note, this finally explains why Flash can fly.

Morph Bark
2011-09-27, 11:50 AM
Why does this class not gain Uncanny Dodge to make it completely invincible to non-casters? :smalltongue:

Speed Armor should maybe also give a bonus to Reflex saves.

Otherwise, the one thing I don't like about this class is that it has too many class features. The way it's up now, it has like 20 abilities of two lines, while I much prefer 10 or less with four or more lines. It makes me not want to read through it since most classes that have the same thing suffer from Grabbagism.

Hanuman
2011-09-27, 01:30 PM
I'd give him some sort of aura or metal coating or something to pretect from friction damage, also i'd make him immune to falling damage and immune to bludgeoning damage.

800ft/round is roughly 90MPH, http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=falling+object+270+feet&asynchronous=false&equal=Submit
That's 27d6 falling damage if you hit a wall or anything sizable during your run, and if memory serves DR doesn't effect falling damage.

drakir_nosslin
2011-09-27, 02:39 PM
Do you have any suggestions about what I could add to make it more versatile? As he is now, the big focus is on his Blitzkrieg strike, hence all the charge-boosting abilities.

Move down Air Run to lvl 7, casters can do that at lvl 5, limit it to a number of rounds/minutes day at first, make it at will around lvl 14.

Teleportation effects fit nicely with a movement focused character. Dimension door at first, allowing blitz to be used with it, later teleport and planeshift might be fun to have.

Perhaps something that allows it to create a whirlwind of some sort by spinning fast in one place?

If you use the suggestion from Hanuman to give it DR bludgeoning I don't think it's stretching it too far to have a Speedster running through walls, perhaps even walls of force at really high levels.

I understand if you're looking for a more 'classical' fast class, but when you're lvl 10+ running very fast just doesn't cut it.


I had that in for a while, but replaced it with hit and run. It felt more appropriate than a pounce, which is, after all, a "jump into battle and stay there" type deal. If he wants lots of attacks, that's what the spring attack chain is for.

Hmm, yea, but this is a melee class and for it to be able to use all its attacks and its class features you're pretty much forcing any player to take those feats. To me that isn't good design. Perhaps hand them out as bonus feats?

I also agree with Morph Bark, there's a lot of class features that could be clumped together. Many of the charge-related ones could be mashed into one that increases with levels. Same as now really, but with a little less bolded text.

Grod_The_Giant
2011-09-27, 03:34 PM
Why does this class not gain Uncanny Dodge to make it completely invincible to non-casters?

Speed Armor should maybe also give a bonus to Reflex saves.

Heh, good idea.


I'd give him some sort of aura or metal coating or something to pretect from friction damage, also i'd make him immune to falling damage and immune to bludgeoning damage.

800ft/round is roughly 90MPH, http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=falling+object+270+feet&asynchronous=false&equal=Submit
That's 27d6 falling damage if you hit a wall or anything sizable during your run, and if memory serves DR doesn't effect falling damage.

The 800 feet is a hypothetical number using the cheetah's sprint ability to charge at 10x speed-- an ability I probably won't add, due to its effectively turning Blitzkrieg Strike into a no-save instakill. "Friction damage" doesn't really exist in D&D, and- short of taking the Run feat or a Cheetah's Charge type ability, the class currently tops out at only a 260 ft charge, or around 30mph. That's not really enough for windburn, I don't think, and as for running into a wall... note that nothing in the class says you can't still stop on a dime.


Move down Air Run to lvl 7, casters can do that at lvl 5, limit it to a number of rounds/minutes day at first, make it at will around lvl 14.

Teleportation effects fit nicely with a movement focused character. Dimension door at first, allowing blitz to be used with it, later teleport and planeshift might be fun to have.

Perhaps something that allows it to create a whirlwind of some sort by spinning fast in one place?

If you use the suggestion from Hanuman to give it DR bludgeoning I don't think it's stretching it too far to have a Speedster running through walls, perhaps even walls of force at really high levels.

I understand if you're looking for a more 'classical' fast class, but when you're lvl 10+ running very fast just doesn't cut it.

I like the way you think. Seems like the general consensus is **** realism, start copying superpowers?


Hmm, yea, but this is a melee class and for it to be able to use all its attacks and its class features you're pretty much forcing any player to take those feats. To me that isn't good design. Perhaps hand them out as bonus feats?

The spring attack chain? I do, at the first level he meets the BAB requirement for each.


I also agree with Morph Bark, there's a lot of class features that could be clumped together. Many of the charge-related ones could be mashed into one that increases with levels. Same as now really, but with a little less bolded text.

Good call.

I will be working on a fairly substantial rebuild, taking suggestions into account. Prepare yourselves... it comes... <muahahahaha>

Hanuman
2011-09-27, 05:35 PM
The 800 feet is a hypothetical number using the cheetah's sprint ability to charge at 10x speed-- an ability I probably won't add, due to its effectively turning Blitzkrieg Strike into a no-save instakill. "Friction damage" doesn't really exist in D&D, and- short of taking the Run feat or a Cheetah's Charge type ability, the class currently tops out at only a 260 ft charge, or around 30mph. That's not really enough for windburn, I don't think, and as for running into a wall... note that nothing in the class says you can't still stop on a dime.


Sure, stop on a dime I can believe that, but in pitch black or when a wall is disguised as a passageway, if you get tripped mid run, these are all things the DM has to handle on spot-- not necessarily RAW but RAW only handles bare bones, like science without common sense. I'm just saying if you go 90mph on foot you might want to wear a helmet.

In terms of friction I'm thinking in terms of high levels taking friction from your own gear. Cheetas are designed to run like that, have 4 legs, are naked and weigh a fraction of what we do.

In terms of flavor, instead of making a master of movement it looks like you're making a master of haste, someone who can move like a blur and stop on a dime. Aka The Flash.

See, what I was imagining was a combination of a monk, a warforged charger and a dungeoncrasher fighter, with speed boosts. A heavy but extremely powerful charger who could plow through walls and ****.

Grod_The_Giant
2011-09-27, 08:45 PM
See, what I was imagining was a combination of a monk, a warforged charger and a dungeoncrasher fighter, with speed boosts. A heavy but extremely powerful charger who could plow through walls and ****.

yeah... that's pretty much it, right there. I see this as a monk-skirmisher type.

In unrelated news, I've finished version 2.0! Major differences:
1) High-level abilities significantly stronger
2) Similar abilities are grouped
3) More versatility, with more skill points and a new stealth ability.
4) A bit of customization, with an element of choice about which charge abilities to get.

Hanuman
2011-09-27, 10:09 PM
yeah... that's pretty much it, right there. I see this as a monk-skirmisher type.

In unrelated news, I've finished version 2.0! Major differences:
1) High-level abilities significantly stronger
2) Similar abilities are grouped
3) More versatility, with more skill points and a new stealth ability.
4) A bit of customization, with an element of choice about which charge abilities to get.
Maybe instead of dimension door where a monk should get it, give it haste.

I think a race called the Xin (sp?) from psionic have a 30 base speed boost as well.

Grod_The_Giant
2011-09-28, 04:14 PM
Ok. I have, for experimental purposes, created a 10th level Speedster to see how it stacks up. Haven't had time to play yet, but let's look at the numbers.

I decided to be an elf, for the dexterity bonus. Rolling for my stats and applying racial and level modifiers gave me:

Strength- 14
Dexterity-18
Constitution- 12
Intelligence-12
Wisdom- 11
Charisma- 9

Build-wise, I decided to go TWF with a pair of kukris, to stick with my original image of the speedster. I took Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, and Improved Critical for my feats, and Hit and Run, Pounce, and Spinning Charge for my Charge Mastery abilities.

The DMG wealth/level guidelines give me 49,000 gp to play with. I spent most of that on Bracers of Armor +4, and a pair of +1 Psychokinetic kukri. I also picked up some Gloves of Dexterity +2, a Cloak of Resistance +2, Boots of Striding and Sprining- for the speed bonus- and a Ring of Feather Falling, which seemed a wise investment for a character with the ability to get really high in the air but nothing to stop him from falling down.

Calculating my stats, then, gives me two kukri attacks with each hand at +15/+10, dealing d4+3 or +4 with 1d4 bonus force damage, and a 16-20 crit range. Not wildly impressive, but four attacks with a nice big crit range and pounce is nothing to sneer at. Still, Blitzkrieg Strike is my main offensive ability. At 10th level, with a 30ft base speed and +10ft from my boots, my maximum charge range is 180 feet, for a total of +36 damage. I can do this three times per encounter-- which, in my experience, is probably enough to get me through most fights.

On average, a full-speed BS (heh) will do 44 damage-- 6 from the kukri, 2 force, and 36 from the ability. Compare that to a paladin's charging smite (probably the closest equivalent ability). For the sake of argument, we'll give him the same equipment, and a strength of 20. On average, he'll do 40-- 8 from the kukri, 2 from force, and +30 from the smite.

Looks pretty fair to me. A paladin is probably not going to be TWF with a pair of kukri, admittedly, but I could probably up the Speedster's damage a bit by carrying a spear, or taking a martial weapon proficiency feat. The Speedster won't always get that max bonus, but he can use his BS more than the paladin can smite.

Now, defensively, my AC starts at 19. With an optimal 180 foot charge, Speed Armor gives me a +9 bonus, for a total of 28. Hmm... that seems a little high, but then again, that is an optimal circumstance. Let's compare to the same paladin. If he spends the same 16,000 on armor that I did on my bracers, he can pick up some +3 plate and a +2 shield. We'll be generous and give him a +1 dex bonus as well, for a total AC of 26.

That seems a little high. Obviously, limited space is going to hurt the Speedster, but with Hit and Run and Spinning Charge, he should be able to get a pretty good distance almost every round. Perhaps speed armor needs a cap... one-half class level or something. That would limit it to a +5, which-- for me-- would max my AC out a 24. That's pretty good, but not quite as ridiculous. Then again... low hit die and limited utility...

Vlos
2011-09-28, 04:54 PM
Just some thoughts.

#1 it seems a little front loaded for a 20 level class. so yeah either a prestige class or shift some abilities to later levels.

#2 A Quickling (movement of 240') gains Improved Invisibility I believe while moving or something like that. So maybe you can add an ability like invisible while moving? If a 20 lvl class still Improved Invis at a late level, so at low levels he starts out goes invis, then hits someone becomes visible, but keeps moving away. At later levels, he goes invis, hits someone then shows up somewhere else when he stops. Even at very low level he would get a blur effect.

#3 Maybe he can resonate his body or move back and forth so quick to different spots make it appear that he is in different spots at once (mirror image) this cannot be used with invis, but maybe with blur? Defensive ability when not attacking would need 10' area to move about or something like that.

#4 If 20 level class, Killing ability (level 20), basically since he can go ethereal, he could move his body so quickly he can then reach into a creatures body grab a vital organ and pull it out, killing the target. This would do either a lot of damage or have a DC to save against. Would not work against incorporeal targets, etc. Magic armor or such may prevent attacks or adjust DC maybe ghost touch?.

#5 another high level ability for 20 level class, similar to a Temporal Acceleration (psion) ability. Moving so quickly time seems to stop. Can do multiple effects while in an accelerated state. This could be 16 or 18th level ability or possibly as low as 14 depending duration and number of uses per day.

Grod_The_Giant
2011-09-28, 05:46 PM
#1 it seems a little front loaded for a 20 level class. so yeah either a prestige class or shift some abilities to later levels.
I tried to have a constant progression of new abilities. He gains either an All-Terrain or Faster Than ability every other level, among other things.


#2 A Quickling (movement of 240') gains Improved Invisibility I believe while moving or something like that. So maybe you can add an ability like invisible while moving? If a 20 lvl class still Improved Invis at a late level, so at low levels he starts out goes invis, then hits someone becomes visible, but keeps moving away. At later levels, he goes invis, hits someone then shows up somewhere else when he stops. Even at very low level he would get a blur effect.
Not a bad idea. What book is the Quickling from?


#3 Maybe he can resonate his body or move back and forth so quick to different spots make it appear that he is in different spots at once (mirror image) this cannot be used with invis, but maybe with blur? Defensive ability when not attacking would need 10' area to move about or something like that.
Cool idea.


#4 If 20 level class, Killing ability (level 20), basically since he can go ethereal, he could move his body so quickly he can then reach into a creatures body grab a vital organ and pull it out, killing the target. This would do either a lot of damage or have a DC to save against. Would not work against incorporeal targets, etc. Magic armor or such may prevent attacks or adjust DC maybe ghost touch?.
He's already got an instakill ability at 19th level.


#5 another high level ability for 20 level class, similar to a Temporal Acceleration (psion) ability. Moving so quickly time seems to stop. Can do multiple effects while in an accelerated state. This could be 16 or 18th level ability or possibly as low as 14 depending duration and number of uses per day.
See Faster than Time, the capstone.

Hiro Protagonest
2011-09-28, 05:53 PM
Er, shouldn't All Terrain (Air) act as Air Walk?

And only +10 feet to speed every other level? This isn't the Flash! The Flash is like, 10th level.

Grod_The_Giant
2011-09-29, 04:07 PM
Er, shouldn't All Terrain (Air) act as Air Walk?

And only +10 feet to speed every other level? This isn't the Flash! The Flash is like, 10th level.

Er, yes, you're right. My bad. Not sure what your second comment is supposed to mean, though. I mean, I'd like this to be the Flash, but I have to keep things balanced...

Hanuman
2011-09-29, 06:00 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbArvIqZzkI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyH66AzAJt0

hint hint

Grod_The_Giant
2011-09-30, 01:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbArvIqZzkI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyH66AzAJt0

hint hint

Again, see his 20th level ability, Faster than Time.

Grod_The_Giant
2011-10-09, 01:56 PM
<bump>

Have a player interested in the class, but would like some more feedback on the new high-level abilities.

flabort
2011-10-09, 03:34 PM
I'm going to take this class...
...And put it on an anthropomorphic hedgehog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CicGCqUsQlI). :smallwink:

Seriously, this class, plus a couple jump-related feats or dips, is exactly what I've been looking for for a Sonic build. I've been contemplating using monk if all else fails, but this is exactly what I want.

Hanuman
2011-10-09, 07:41 PM
I'm going to take this class...
...And put it on an anthropomorphic hedgehog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CicGCqUsQlI). :smallwink:

Seriously, this class, plus a couple jump-related feats or dips, is exactly what I've been looking for for a Sonic build. I've been contemplating using monk if all else fails, but this is exactly what I want.
Why not dip monk1 and get a novice stone dragon belt (mountain hammer) and maybe boots of landing?

I think I have some flowdancer notes somewhere for being able to wall and ceiling run. For a basic balance issue if you wanted to make it a class feature move at 3/4 your speed on any surface as long as you move X feet in a straight line per round. If you wanted to make it more complex send me a PM and I'll go look through my notes.

John Cribati
2011-10-10, 04:48 PM
The only way I can see to improve this class would be to find some way to include the Infinite Mass Punch.

Grod_The_Giant
2011-10-10, 05:24 PM
I think I have some flowdancer notes somewhere for being able to wall and ceiling run. For a basic balance issue if you wanted to make it a class feature move at 3/4 your speed on any surface as long as you move X feet in a straight line per round. If you wanted to make it more complex send me a PM and I'll go look through my notes.

Do you think what I have now is too vague or powerful?


The only way I can see to improve this class would be to find some way to include the Infinite Mass Punch.

Gravatic Strike?

Hanuman
2011-10-10, 11:26 PM
Do you think what I have now is too vague or powerful?
Personally I think it's balanced to your class, but I have no opinion on the balance of your class to others.

John Cribati
2011-10-11, 08:02 PM
Gravatic Strike?

... Was that always there? I must have overlooked it somehow.

Grod_The_Giant
2011-10-11, 09:01 PM
... Was that always there? I must have overlooked it somehow.

I added it in the first big update. Credit for the idea goes to Neo-Leviathan.

flabort
2011-10-11, 09:12 PM
I want to make a prestige class, advancing this class, and one of mine.
Unfortunately, Blitzkrieg strike isn't usable in rounds where you attack more than once (you even state it doesn't work on pounce), and the class I want to merge it with, it's key feature is dependent on hitting more than once/round :smalltongue:.

So, If I do make such a PrC, either it'll have new features giving it the ability to hit more than once on a charge, and still apply Blitzkrieg strike, or it would end up high tier 5.

Or something.

I have a lot of prestige classes I want to make, actually. I'll have to start compiling a list.

Grod_The_Giant
2011-10-11, 10:19 PM
I want to make a prestige class, advancing this class, and one of mine.
Unfortunately, Blitzkrieg strike isn't usable in rounds where you attack more than once (you even state it doesn't work on pounce), and the class I want to merge it with, it's key feature is dependent on hitting more than once/round :smalltongue:

The restriction is largely one of balance. +28 damage on a charge isn't that absurd at 7th level, but with improved two-weapon fighting and pounce that number could go up to +112, which is more than enough to one-hit most CR 7 monsters. Perhaps if I add in language saying that the damage bonus only applies once?

I'd be interesting in seeing the PrC, though.

On an unrelated note, looking back at the Charge Mastery abilities, some of them are crap. Acrobatic Charge is rendered more or less useless by All Terrain (earth), Bob and Weave more-or-less supersedes Dive Roll, and Mobile Strike and Hit and Run do basically the same thing. I wanted to give options, but...

Grod_The_Giant
2011-10-12, 09:47 PM
Updated Charge Mastery abilities to be cooler and more powerful. New/revised:


Acrobatic Charge- While charging, you gain an untyped bonus to Balance, Jump, and Tumble checks equal to your bonus to speed. For example, a 7th level Speedster gains a +40 bonus to Tumble checks while charging.
Hit and Run- attack without slowing down. This ability functions like the Ride-By Attack feat, except that he need not be mounted to use it. He can combine this ability with his Blitzkrieg Strike, dealing damage for the FULL distance moved, as long as he moves at least half the total distance before striking-- any less, and he's still accelerating, and only deals damage for the distance he's traveled before hitting his foe.
Dancing Charge- When charging, the Speedster has a limited ability to change direction. For every 10 feet of movement, he can turn 45 degrees. This ability works similarly to a clumsy maneuverability while flying.
Effortless Charge- A Speedster must have already taken Dancing Charge to take this ability. When making a Dancing Charge, he can turn 45 degrees for every 5 feet of movement.
Pounce- Make a full attack at the end of a charge.
Blitzkrieg Fury- If you wield two or more weapons, you may apply Blitzkrieg strike damage to the first attack made with each weapon. A Speedster must have Pounce to take this ability.
Cheetah's Sprint- Once per day, a Speedster may move ten times his speed when he makes a charge.

Lyndworm
2011-10-12, 10:38 PM
I really like the idea of this class, and I think that it's been executed fairly well. I'm not utterly convinced that it shouldn't be a PrC (as it is oddly an specific archetype), but I'm happy with it as it sits.

That said, I feel I should point out the horrible insanity that would be a Thri-Kreen Speedster. For example, at ECL 10 this monstrosity could have a quad-handed two attack Pounce (2.5x Str to damage), a base speed of 80ft, and a Jump check of over +100 (while charging). I'm not sure this is a bad thing, but it is most certainly delicious.

Dr.Orpheus
2011-10-12, 11:27 PM
I realy like this class I also like the race quickling. I remember a lv 5 character I made could travel the distance a man on a horse could travle in 4 weaks in 2 minuets. I made psion nomads try to use the power trace teleport when ever I moved. I was rich because I stuffed everything I wanted in a bag of holding and ran. Away after I stole a wand of nondetection no casters folowed me. I had trackless step so no non-casters folowed me. I was not seen as a criminal because nobody saw me because of natural invisibility. What I am trying to say is speed is underrated there are lots of uses for it this class gives you more uses. I would like to create a gestalt quickling speadster/druid (with the druidic avenger variant for the barbarian fast movement and the other variant for the monk fast movement both in UA, the animal companion will not be fast enough to keep up and if i wild shape it will lower my speed.) If you reed sword and fist you read that creatures with higher base movement speeds get an more bonus speed from the monk fast movement, 40 ft. more per 10 ft. above 30 of base speed over 20 levels. That is 680 ft. of movement before magic witch can more than double it if you use 3ed expedious retreatand, then 3ed haste give you another action to move basicly multiplying the total movement by 1.5, take the dash feat for overkill, and cheetah's sprint is super, and so is faster than time. This totals to 114675 ft. plus i am likely forgeting somthing that could increase it more, but this is equal to 13031.25 miles per hour, about 70 times faster than a race car

Grod_The_Giant
2011-10-13, 07:50 AM
That is mildly insane, although I'm pretty sure that in a gestalt game speed bonuses from two different classes wouldn't stack. Speedster + quickling is probably always going to be broken, though. What book is he from?

Dr.Orpheus
2011-10-13, 10:34 AM
Quickling is from the tome of horrors some 3rd party publisher as far as I know but it was later put in pathfinder and a quickling was incuded in a part of the drizzt books

Hanuman
2011-10-13, 11:09 AM
Level 17 ability needs a cap.

If people are going to use this class to abusive levels, perhaps you should add rules for exactly how fast is too fast.

Here's an example, a 6 str 6 con wizard already runs about as fast as the fastest man in the world currently, and moderately faster with the Run feat.

I'm a big believer in "Ex can bend physics", but at some point you're going to need to flavor it Su, have DR, cold and heat reduction, altitude sickness immunity, ect. just to counteract the little things, some sort of vision effect as if you move as a blur, or invisible it's relative and everything else is also going to be just as disorienting as you appear to be. Something to think about anyway.

Grod_The_Giant
2011-10-13, 11:09 AM
Eh, not important enough to warrant any changes in the class. Might steal the speed-granted-concealment bit, though.

EDIT: This was a response to Dr. Orpheus only.

Dr.Orpheus
2011-10-13, 11:40 AM
I'm a big believer in "Ex can bend physics", but at some point you're going to need to flavor it Su, have DR, cold and heat reduction, altitude sickness immunity, ect. just to counteract the little things, some sort of vision effect as if you move as a blur, or invisible it's relative and everything else is also going to be just as disorienting as you appear to be. Something to think about anyway.
I think that when a creature gains incredible speed resistance to friction, quickend vision, immunity to motion sickness, and the ability to stop quickly is included. Definetly if it is racial or from feats, probobly if it is from your class, and maybe if its magic however you should should not benafit from this when friction, bluryness of vision, and traction of your shoes are altered for the worse.

Eh, not important enough to warrant any changes in the class. Might steal the speed-granted-concealment bit, though.
you should look up the quickling to see its blur effect it gets whenever it moves

Grod_The_Giant
2011-10-13, 10:09 PM
I think that when a creature gains incredible speed resistance to friction, quickend vision, immunity to motion sickness, and the ability to stop quickly is included. Definetly if it is racial or from feats, probobly if it is from your class, and maybe if its magic however you should should not benafit from this when friction, bluryness of vision, and traction of your shoes are altered for the worse.

And let's be honest. In a world where scrawny wizards can alter reality with a wave and a word, do we really care about physics? Especially when they make things more complicated, not less.
In any case, this is a class that is designed around running really fast. I'm not going to introduce mechanics that make it weaker or less fun to play.


you should look up the quickling to see its blur effect it gets whenever it moves

Did so on the Pathfinder wiki, and added Blur as the advanced Speed Stealth ability.

flabort
2011-10-13, 10:47 PM
Besides, if you DO run so fast that you treat pieces of gravel as huge ramps, which send you into the ionosphere, it's only your fault if the DM makes you take massive cold damage. Same if you get infinite hits with Aptitude+Lightning Maces (and whatever), and he drops rocks on you. Or if you chain-gate solars, and he sics pup-pun on you.

But if you're running that fast, I'll bet you you'll regret nothing. :smallcool: You'd be able to "see your house from here", no matter where you went.

Hanuman
2011-10-13, 11:09 PM
And let's be honest. In a world where scrawny wizards can alter reality with a wave and a word, do we really care about physics? Especially when they make things more complicated, not less.
DnD is a balance, but it's more of a balance of pepper than salt, some people like more realism and complexity, some like less.
Hell, people play Monostat, You are a 7, roll +7 for every roll :smallsmile:

Mind you, we keep the suspension of disbelief by classifying some effects as "beyond explanation" which is the correct definition of magic or "supernatural" effects.


Besides, if you DO run so fast that you treat pieces of gravel as huge ramps, which send you into the ionosphere, it's only your fault if the DM makes you take massive cold damage.
Well I mean more like freezing to death as all your heat is conducted off of you, or if you move fast enough then igniting your clothing. I can't imagine breathing, seeing, ect. at that speed either... I mean if my players tried to move 100 squares a round I'd probably start giving them reflex saves for turning or each obstacle vs. falling damage =S

Dr.Orpheus
2011-10-14, 10:52 AM
I think after some point you will be moveing to fast to hit dispite your AC. 114675ft. is alot. You will be outside your opponents field of vision and then do a hit and run and you will once agian be outside there vision, you canot be attacked even if you could be located (with a spot check DC your hide check + 5733 from range) because you would be out of range. Even a 20th level caster with a spell that has long range and if the spell enlarged that is 2400ft. max for any non-epic caster.

jojolagger
2011-10-14, 11:52 AM
I am currently trying to find a way to use this class and other things to run through the earth. I'm only up to about 300,000 ft per round right now. will most method and tricks later, as I'm away from books and running this from memory right now.

Dr.Orpheus
2011-10-14, 01:23 PM
what methods do you have so far this class is usefull but I know a few other tricks.

Grod_The_Giant
2011-10-14, 01:32 PM
I think after some point you will be moveing to fast to hit dispite your AC. 114675ft. is alot. You will be outside your opponents field of vision and then do a hit and run and you will once agian be outside there vision, you canot be attacked even if you could be located (with a spot check DC your hide check + 5733 from range) because you would be out of range. Even a 20th level caster with a spell that has long range and if the spell enlarged that is 2400ft. max for any non-epic caster.

...holy crap. Where are you getting... oh, I see. You're using a monster race (that I can't find in 3.5), gestalt rules (which I think aren't applied right? Wouldn't you just use whichever speed boost was higher) and a couple of 3rd edition spells. Not to worry about.


I am currently trying to find a way to use this class and other things to run through the earth. I'm only up to about 300,000 ft per round right now. will most method and tricks later, as I'm away from books and running this from memory right now.

UNholy crap! That's...mildly insane.

I agree that Improved Blitzkrieg Strike might need a cap, although it IS worth noting that no matter how insanely high you get your speed, you need to have line of sight to charge your target.

flabort
2011-10-14, 03:21 PM
So, concerning the PrC I said I wanted to make.

I have it so that you need three levels each in the two classes, requiring blitzkrieg strike + mobile strike from this side, and Barrage +2d6 from the other.

It advances the speed bonus, and gives +50 ft. over 10 levels. If you only take enough of the other class to qualify, and fill any left over with Speedster, you end up with 90 feet at 20th level, which makes sense for having 7+10 levels advancing that. :smallconfused: Does that sentence make sense?

It also advances Barrage damage (from the other class), and I have a few ideas for extra abilities so that it actually meshes. I'm wondering a couple things, though.
A) what to name this prestige class.
B) when to give it extra Blitzkrieg Strikes per encounter
C) since it will never get Faster than Space/Time, or even Faster than Sound:smalleek:, what kind of Capstone do you think might be most... fitting.

edit: nevermind B). I'm giving him extra strikes at 1st, 4th, 7th, & 10th. This means he can potentially get 6 strikes (1st Speedster, 5th speedster, plus the four from the PrC, because the other class steals 3 levels, it can never get the 10th level strike from the base class).

Edit 2: So far, the only unique ability the PrC grants, is Blitzkrieg Volley, which allows you to deal 1.5 the bonus damage from blitzkrieg strike on a single charge, for two uses. You also have to hit twice (which usually means either having pounce, or eating a -6 to hit) to use it. I need more ideas:smallfrown:

Grod_The_Giant
2011-10-14, 04:21 PM
So, concerning the PrC I said I wanted to make.
You could always go the quick-and-easy route and call it the Speedblade, although that might already be a thing.

If you keep advancing basic abilities from two classes, you probably don't need many new abilities. Maybe an ability to temporarily trade land speed boost for more attacks/round, or a bonus on attack rolls for the round? And for a capstone, maybe allow Blitzkrieg Strike damage to apply to all hits in the round. It's not as cool as time stop, but it's hella powerful.

Dr.Orpheus
2011-10-14, 04:40 PM
...holy crap. Where are you getting... oh, I see. You're using a monster race (that I can't find in 3.5), gestalt rules (which I think aren't applied right? Wouldn't you just use whichever speed boost was higher) and a couple of 3rd edition spells. Not to worry about.


I'm sorry about adding the fast movement from both classes together. However I overlooked the scout's fast movment which I think would stack, bcause the scouts fast movement is a set number that doubles at a particular level instead of an amount per X levels, they are distinctly different class abilitys dispite them having the same name. Also if the rules regurding a monks fast movement apply to the speedster then I could gain another 180ft. before multipication. I forgot the quick trait from the UA too. the new total is 221,000ft.

jojolagger
2011-10-14, 06:08 PM
I'm sorry about adding the fast movement from both classes together. However I overlooked the scout's fast movment which I think would stack, bcause the scouts fast movement is a set number that doubles at a particular level instead of an amount per X levels, they are distinctly different class abilitys dispite them having the same name. Also if the rules regurding a monks fast movement apply to the speedster then I could gain another 180ft. before multipication. I forgot the quick trait from the UA too. the new total is 221,000ft.

Actually, I was using a graft the gave flight equal to twice land speed, Rapidwrath (which doubles speed), run (times 5) and fly like an arrow (times 10). Having x200 onto speed makes high numbers easy. Also an extended footsteps of the divine for more speed.

Dr.Orpheus
2011-10-14, 08:46 PM
Actually, I was using a graft the gave flight equal to twice land speed, Rapidwrath (which doubles speed), run (times 5) and fly like an arrow (times 10). Having x200 onto speed makes high numbers easy. Also an extended footsteps of the divine for more speed.

I found a way to add on another 10ft. before multipication. If I apply that to what you have told me you get a total of 46,600,000ft. with an extended footsteps of the divine included. This speed is more than mach 4 one more mach and we will be faster than speed racer.

flabort
2011-10-14, 08:48 PM
With DnD multiplication rules, that would only be x15 (10+(2-1)+(5-1)).
And with normal type maths, 10x2x5=20x5=100. :smallconfused:

You must have included some numbers that you didn't post.

jojolagger
2011-10-14, 08:51 PM
With DnD multiplication rules, that would only be x15 (10+(2-1)+(5-1)).
And with normal type maths, 10x2x5=20x5=100. :smallconfused:

You must have included some numbers that you didn't post.

Flight equal to double land speed (x2) rapidwrath (x2) run (x5) fly like an arrow (x10).
Oh, and D&D multiplication rules only apply to exclusively in-game stuff (Damage). Real world values (distance, speed, weight) still use proper math.

flabort
2011-10-14, 08:55 PM
Oh, right. Thanks, that makes more sense. :smallsmile:

Andion Isurand
2011-10-14, 09:29 PM
How about a system of energy points similar to a ki pool, to power each of the facets of moving quickly? I think the ethereal thing, cheetah's sprint, and the faster than X abilities could feed off the same pool of points.

The points could equal dex mod + class level.

I also think there could be room for adding a little sonic damage for striking someone at such a high speed.

And perhaps there could be a freedom of movement boost you could tap into as well.

Hanuman
2011-10-14, 11:01 PM
That's pretty gross. I know a lot of people who play 4e because of stuff like this, considering the game is built around dungeon crawls with a LotR-esque flavor-- but I guess there's always fun in shooting the entire spanish invasion force dead with your space ray in space.

Grod_The_Giant
2011-10-15, 12:41 AM
Added a damage cap to Blitzkrieg strike- no matter what you do, you can never deal more than ten times your class level bonus damage with it. Still a lot, potentially, but not abusive.

Dr.Orpheus
2011-10-15, 12:56 AM
Added a damage cap to Blitzkrieg strike- no matter what you do, you can never deal more than ten times your class level bonus damage with it. Still a lot, potentially, but not abusive.

that sounds ok everything should have the ability to become powerful but not too powerful. My 2 power gaming specialties are movement speeds and undead fallowers, but I have started limiting myself to half of what I am capeable of, this way the DM does not leave the table to play dwarf fortress untill everyone has left his house.

zegram 33
2011-10-25, 07:19 PM
im not sure how this would work mechanically without screwing up turn order, but what about allowing it to make attacks on multiple people in one turn, who arnt in a line?
like, ping ponging between three guys and then away to a safe distance, like an evolution of the ride by feat?
might not be possible, i dunno

Grod_The_Giant
2011-10-25, 07:33 PM
im not sure how this would work mechanically without screwing up turn order, but what about allowing it to make attacks on multiple people in one turn, who arnt in a line?
like, ping ponging between three guys and then away to a safe distance, like an evolution of the ride by feat?
might not be possible, i dunno

Already covered by Mobile Strike, especially if you combo it with Hit and Run. But yeah, it's a pretty cool speedster-type staple.

flabort
2011-10-25, 10:50 PM
I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit I'd forgotten to work on the PrC. On the plus side, I have a name, now. Wind Chaser.
And I've added an ability that causes a cloud of dust to obscure the vision of all creatures he passes. Not very strong, but flavorful.
He can also summon a "Cutting Breeze". Still not sure what it does, but I'm thinking free action attack during move action, (Su).

So, now that I've remembered, progress is coming along. But, I had forgotten.

flabort
2011-10-28, 04:25 PM
I finished the Wind Chaser (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12117889#post12117889).

It's capstone requires expending 5 blitzkrieg strikes in one round to use it, but gets much more damage, on all attacks that round.

Three wind-themed Su abilities, two of which are using it as a weapon.

motionmatrix
2011-11-17, 04:36 PM
I just clicked on your sig link, since i totally love the idea of a flash like character.

My two cents:

1-He should be able to transfer the kinetic energy, so he could for example, bull rush someone with a punch without having to move beyond the first contact. punch him and send him flying, not from pure strength but from all that energy transferred to him. Now add falling damage for the distance traveled if he hits anything on the way. Hell the target should travel at least 1/2 the distance The Speedster traveled to deliver this attack.

At higher levels he may be able to send them flying, then follow and punch a second time to change the direction.

2-He should have a second option other than charging. Maybe add in something that gives him like two attacks per level (even if he doesn't roll that many attacks, tedious after a while, especially long term), with just his fists, each attack only deals 1d2 + str, or some such thing. Maybe even just flat str plus a static escalating bonus. maybe not even the escalating bonus, since I am sure someone can figure out how to break extra attacks. But remember Flash is not just about charging when he fights.

3-He should be able to transfer the same idea above (#2) and throw a bunch of rocks, sticks, etc. Give him throw anything, and let him be a mini uzi, (just not mini uzi damage, for balance).

4- Why doesn't he have gust of wind at will? all he has to do is super spin his arms.

5-he should be able to spider climb with just his feet (specify he does not need his hands) and he does not need to take off his shoes.

6-How come he does not have blink? he should be able to phase into solid objects, vibrating at their molecular frequency (even if you don't use such terms).

7-the names for Faster than should be switched around to this order (only the names, not the abilities themselves): Faster than space, Faster than time, Faster than reality. It makes more sense, since that would probably be the order ascending to more complex. This is just a pet peeve, sorry.

8-A cyclone type of ability at higher levels, as he spins around objects.

DeAnno
2011-11-26, 01:24 AM
Clicked sig link, read class

First, mechanical concerns:

-For Speed Armor and Hit and Run, and possibly some other things, specify the amount of distance you move but let you apply the effect before you finish moving the distance. This sort of retroactive stuff can cause problems if you get tripped or see something new and decide to stop or something else in the future. I'm not sure how best to handle this, but you may want to base it only on distance already traveled with Speed Armor, and specify it's twice distance traveled with a max of your speed for Hit and Run.

-For Mobile Strike: Does getting extra attacks with this still only require a standard action? You might want to be specific.

-For Bob and Weave: As dumb as it is, you might want to specify if this wins in cases where things that don't normally provoke provoke anyway (ie Thicket of Blades) This problem exists with Tumble because the people who wrote Thicket after didn't specify, so it's always a nice clean thing to do to avoid new material you write causing such conflicts.

-For Faster than Space: Do you mean it functions as Faster than Reality? As written this power sort of doesn't make sense.

Balance/Design Concerns:

-The cap on Blitzkrieg damage may or may not be counterproductive. In games where people can optimize Blitz to be insane, they can probably optimize a lot of other things to be insane, especially while charging (cough Power Attack). At 20th level, a Thri-Kreen has a Speed of 130 (260 Charging) so with Blitz Fury will deal 4 arms * 4 damage * 26 = 416 bonus damage for the whole charge, which is only twice the cap, and not even that ridiculous for that level. When you consider something as common as Leaping Frenzied Power Attack is 8:1, and manages 160 per blow all on its own at level 20, 416 as a Fringe case isn't so scary. Just something to consider. Cheetah's Sprint may get ridiculous in such a situation, but I don't know of many other things like that around (maybe include 10:1 backlash damage instead to discourage being ridiculous?).

- Speedster 6 for Mobile Strike Double hits among other stuff is... interesting for dipping. All the charge tech they eventually get though does make charging more attractive than normal however. You may want to throw Mobile Strike a bone in the form of reduced bonus damage as the class progresses.

- You may want Gravitic Strike to be 10 + 1/2 HD + Con, just for the sake of Epic scaling.

- The AC situation early on is real harsh, but I guess it's mollified by being Dex Dex Dex.

All and all, interesting. I may think of more things to say later.

Soliloquy
2012-01-17, 10:00 PM
Yeah... you should probably compare this to this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227714). It seems that someone has stolen your idea.:smallannoyed:

Grod_The_Giant
2012-01-17, 11:52 PM
Yeah... you should probably compare this to this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227714). It seems that someone has stolen your idea.:smallannoyed:

I saw it on the front page a few days ago. I'm hardly the only person to come up with the idea, and the implementation and fluff are totally different. My Speedster, despite the (Ex) tags on his abilities, is based on characters like the Flash, and is way more supernatural than the Runner, who owes its inspiration more to parkour and characters like the chick from Mirror's Edge.

boros_blitz
2012-01-18, 05:28 PM
um. am i the only person who immediately thought Rainbow Dash when i saw this class?

Dragon Star
2012-01-18, 05:56 PM
If you still want a new name, maye celeromancer, or volomancer? Both imply magic, but this class is pretty supernatural anyway.

Dragon Star
2012-01-18, 06:09 PM
If you still want a new name, maye celeromancer, or volomancer? Both imply magic, but this class is pretty supernatural anyway.

ryuken139
2012-11-27, 09:28 PM
I joined this forum just to comment on this thread. This is an AWESOME class, and I am rolling up to surprise one of my players who is in love with Sonic. (Awakened Hedgehog as a PC race, anyone?)

I had a few questions:
1) What skills would this class get with the Pathfinder skill set? Given that Acrobatics is a single skill in Pathfinder, this class has only just a few class skills.
2) Flavor wise, how does a speedster obtain his or her powers? I think offering a bit of in-world lore would be very helpful in helping this class feel like it belongs in the fantasy genre. Perhaps the speed comes from latent ties with the fey? Is this a gift from the air elementals?
3) How open minded would you be to alternate class features? One of the criticisms of this class has been "not enough options" and "too specialized to be a base class." So, if I offered some alternate features, could it be cool to PEACH those and add them to the class for great justice?

Grod_The_Giant
2012-11-27, 11:35 PM
I joined this forum just to comment on this thread. This is an AWESOME class, and I am rolling up to surprise one of my players who is in love with Sonic. (Awakened Hedgehog as a PC race, anyone?)

I had a few questions:
1) What skills would this class get with the Pathfinder skill set? Given that Acrobatics is a single skill in Pathfinder, this class has only just a few class skills.
2) Flavor wise, how does a speedster obtain his or her powers? I think offering a bit of in-world lore would be very helpful in helping this class feel like it belongs in the fantasy genre. Perhaps the speed comes from latent ties with the fey? Is this a gift from the air elementals?
3) How open minded would you be to alternate class features? One of the criticisms of this class has been "not enough options" and "too specialized to be a base class." So, if I offered some alternate features, could it be cool to PEACH those and add them to the class for great justice?

Glad you like it so much! Though I'm not sure if this counts as thread necromancy... in any case.

1) Acrobatics, Climb, Escape Artist, Fly, Perception, Stealth, Swim. And looking back, some more rogue skills wouldn't go amiss with the scout role.
2) I tend not to write as much fluff as I should, truth be told. A tie to air elementals probably makes as much sense as anything else. Or maybe Quickling heritage. Or highly focused innate magic. Could be anything, really-- I try not to restrict people.
3) I'd be delighted if you like the class well enough to want to make your own ACF's! I admit that it is a bit specialized for a base class, but, well... a lot of them are, truth be told. (Paladin? Barbarian? Monk?). If you post them, I'll look at them, and if you allow I'll certainly include them as "official" options.



Looking back a year or so later, I definitely should have come up with some fluff, since that might have helped me come up with more options. Charge Mastery is a good start, sure, but... maybe two paths, a sneaky Windrunner and a more martial Windrunner. One gets Speed Armor, the other Speed Stealth. One gets trapfinding, the other gets... I don't know, something pretty. You get the idea.

I'd also probably put Blitzkrieg Strike and all the Faster Than abilities on cooldown timers, rather than x/day or x/encounter limits, but that's more a matter of changing personal taste.

(PS: Sorry, mods, but the damage was already done when I got here...)

Roland St. Jude
2012-11-28, 12:38 AM
Sheriff: Welcome to the Forum. Please review the Forum Rules, particularly the one on Thread Necromancy.