Psion anti-saves?

[The_Ditto]

Hey gang,

I recall reading a thread discussing a Wizard build that imposed a ridiculous ~-15 or so penalty to target's saves. I was curious, however, I'm roughin up a psion build, and wanted to get a few penalties onto his saves. I've read over that other thread, but MCing into Warlock for that Paragon Path didn't really strike my fancy.

So I thought I'd just ask this: without the need to reach -15 (ok, if you want to strut your stuff, lay it out :smallsmile:), I'm hoping for a modest -4 to -6 would be nice.

I was thinking MCing into Wizard for the Orb Implement focus? Is that the simplest way to pick up the neg saves for a psion? Or are there any feats that help out?


I know about dominating mind - and may take it, however, it's limited as it affects only a few conditions. Was hoping for a blanket penalty.

I also saw the at-will power (Crushing Turmoil) that imposes a -2 to saves until end of next turn. So I suppose I can slap the effect on them, then just keep hitting them with that power ... but that seems a bit of work :smallbiggrin:

Anything else? Magic Items? Implements, etc?

[Mando Knight]

You don't need to MC Wizard to take Orb feats as a Psion, but there is no good way to pick up Arcane Implement Mastery.

[Surrealistik]

I believe you are referring to my theory op magnum opus The Cheesewizard (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28273981/The_Cheesewizard). That actually has a -12 recurring and -16 to the first roll. At the moment I'm fairly certain -12 is the highest possible non-conditional recurring penalty you can get.

-15 recurring but conditional is possible on a Wizard power with the Fear, Charm and Poison keywords that slows or immobilizes as per:

Talisman of Terror (-3) + Skull Mask (-2) + Spider Familiar (-1) + Spell Focus (-2) + Mystic Rapture (-5, must be within 3 squares) + Persistent Poison (-2) = -15.

Unfortunately there is only one (1) Wizard power with the Fear and Charm keywords that has a save ends effect, which is Mind of Rage, and it doesn't provide hard control/action denial unlike many other powers and it doesn't slow or immobilize (no Spider penalty), or deal damage (no Persistent Poison) for a max recurring penalty of -12.


As save penalties go for the Psion, your best bets are Dominating Mind, Orb of Mental Dominion, Cursed Eye Tattoo, Orb of Fickle Fate, Persistent Poison (but this will require you to use a Spiderkissed Staff), Cunning Staff (requires you to use a cunning staff), Phrenic Crown, and Mind Fire (Phiarlan Phantasmist) or Mystic Rapture (Entrancing Mystic).

[MeeposFire]

You don't need to MC Wizard to take Orb feats as a Psion, but there is no good way to pick up Arcane Implement Mastery.

He could play as an eladrin if he al he needs is orb proficiency. The new eladrin sub race in the NEverwinter Campaign setting (I think it is sun elf) allows you to trade your weapon proficiencies for proficiency with staves and orbs.

[Mando Knight]

He could play as an eladrin if he al he needs is orb proficiency. The new eladrin sub race in the NEverwinter Campaign setting (I think it is sun elf) allows you to trade your weapon proficiencies for proficiency with staves and orbs.

If you're a Psion, you already have staff and orb implement proficiency.

[Kurald Galain]

It's not implement proficiency you should be worried about, but the Orb Of Imposition class feature, which isn't really feasible to get for a psion. And Spell Focus only works on wizard spells.

I think your best bet is to wield a Cunning Staff and stock up on certain magic orbs with daily powers that penalize saves.

[Dust]

I believe you are referring to my theory op magnum opus The Cheesewizard (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28273981/The_Cheesewizard).
Aha, I thought I recognized your name. I'm a fan; that's one hell of a build.

[The_Ditto]

I believe you are referring to my theory op magnum opus The Cheesewizard (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28273981/The_Cheesewizard).

Yep, that's the one :smallwink:



As save penalties go for the Psion, your best bets are Dominating Mind, Orb of Mental Dominion, Cursed Eye Tattoo, Orb of Fickle Fate, Persistent Poison (but this will require you to use a Spiderkissed Staff), Cunning Staff (requires you to use a cunning staff), Phrenic Crown, and Mind Fire (Phiarlan Phantasmist) or Mystic Rapture (Entrancing Mystic).

Thanks .. I found most of them and they are right on the money.

What are:
Dominating Mind
Mind Fire (Phiarian Phantasmist)
Mystic Rapture (Entrancing Mystic)
?


I assume the first is a feat or power? If so, what's the source?
I assume the later 2 are Paragon paths, and their abilities .. again, can't find them, what source?

Thanks again!!

[The_Snark]

I assume the first is a feat or power? If so, what's the source?
I assume the later 2 are Paragon paths, and their abilities .. again, can't find them, what source?

Thanks again!!

Dominating Mind is a paragon tier feat from the PHB3. The latter two are indeed paragon path features. The Phiarlan Phantasmist can be found in the Eberron Player's Guide; note that it requires a dragonmark feat, which some DMs consider too setting-specific to allow. The Entrancing Mystic is a warlock paragon path from Arcane Power.

[Surrealistik]

Honestly, save penalizing is not something Psions do very well. I'd recommend going for Divine Oracle, multiclassing cleric, in order to get two attack rolls on your attacks vs Will come L16 (the free Danger Sense and Alertness is also awesome).