Campaign Idea Needing Advice

[Tokuhara]

Hello Playgrounders!

I just bought Shadows of the Last War, Whisper of the Vampire's Blade, Grasp of the Emerald Claw, and Eyes of the Lich Queen at a garage sale for $0.50. I plan on running them all through as a campaign, starting with The Forgotten Forge. My questions:

1. Has anyone ever tried this? From a quick read, the "campaign" seems to flow quite well, but EotLQ isn't from the "set," but could almost tie-in as an advancement of the campaign.

2. I'm a first-time DM and to me, starting pre-rendered and moving on from there seems logical. Is this true?

3. My party is mid optimization overall, so how do I handle a player who optimizes heavily?

Thanks in advance

-Tokuhara

[Kol Korran]

i played some of it, here are some thoughts:

1)
- the forgotten forge is quite easy, and not that challenging, but it's fun. it's a good introduction to Eberron, if the players don't know it. if they do, they might cause trouble through investigating in Sharn in all kind of unexpected avenues and more. the toughest thing was surprisingly the two horrid rats, due to their high damage. all in all, not bad, not great.

- shadows of the last war has it's good points and bad. the general atmosphere is nice, but... many of the encounters are quite easy, especially for a half decent party. (the skeletons on the ship, the living color spray), white hearth is a nice dungeon, but the key cards are very confusing, and i think one or two of them don't even open anything (was it orange?) the Mournland bit is IMHO very, very lacking. characters of that level should stand the flimsiest chance surviving there, and it's supposed to be a land of weird horrors and mind boggling confusing and bothering things. and they face some warped wolves and a wounded crab? come on! i think the writers really missed it on this one. i really liked the dig site with the emerald claw camp. an interesting challenge.but be wary of your party is the "charge first, scout later" kind of party- it will be a TPK. as to the ambush at the end- some parties give the changling cleric what he ants, some fight. of them, enough succeeded defeating him and his minions to warrant upgrading the ambush' strength. all in all, some points good, some just bad. look it over and make it better.

- whispers of the vampire's blade: i quite liked the premise- chasing the vampire over horse, party, air, lightning rail and so on. a sort of recuring villain that keeps getting away! plus- nice challenging encounters, that are over the party's level, but are "one in a day". the problem comes in the execution of the premise. the module assumes at some times that the party is just gonna sit and wait for the vamp to appear. for example, on th air ship- the captain doesn't allow them to search the ship. what party of adventurers will stand for that? sneaking around, invisibility, disguise/ alter self and more, and they might well find the vamp ahead of time. the same goes with the lighting rail- disallowed to go to the private booths or something like that (forgot the details) ohhhh reallly? i heard a tale or two of the party catching the vamp on the carriage already, ending with the death of most of the party by the way. again, if you know the party, and their tactics, you may prepare, but if they are inventive and smart, be ready to get the whole adventure botched.

- grasp of the emerald claw: now this was an excellent adventure! good premise, challenges, build up. i really liked it! the finale is also quite nice. only two (slight) complaints- some of the challenges are REALLY deadly. mostly i remember the drowned elf (drowned are really tough monsters!), and the apes being able to throw you off the building. (though a party that comes so high and doesn't have fly/ feather fall/ levitate ready may well deserve it) the bodak also feels... out of place, and really not fun. save or die just because of info gathering? and how exactly does it hide? i'd suggest to change it to some other threat, or make it's gaze do con damage instead (2d6?). all in all, a very solid and fun adventure i think.

- eyes of the lich queen: never played it, just read it and askedabout it, so talk my advice with a grain of salt. the Q'barra part is nice. i LOVED the tunnels the twin dragons use. the poisons of the poisondusk are said to be a tad too strong. other than that i heard nothing special. the running through the Lhazar principalities seems like a lot of fun, and i'd imagine that again, an inovative party might be able to "round corners" somehow. but it is a great place for improvisation and more. i really disliked the Dreadhold tunnels, mostly due to the low challenge, and the ridiculous plot of getting there. but that's my opinions. others seemed to like it. the interaction with the pirate prince at the end is nice, but i feel it could be done better, and should be fairly pen to players inginuity. the island is ok i guess, straightforward as hell. the argonessen bit... i don't know, felt a bit railroaded and silly. they "happen" to arrive when the chief fights for his life? "happen" to arrive at a conflict between the tribes? sure, prophecy and all that, but c'mon! the tower climb is kinda cool- a series of special combat encounters, fairly unique and thematic, though i feel they might drain the party too much to the final encounter, but i never tested it, so i don't know. the dragon fight should be fun, but i feel one thing ruins it- everybody suddenly getting the bloody improved evasion! the breath weapon is a thematic draconic power, why nullify it from the start? ifthe party want to spend resources to be protected (resist and protect spells) fine, but let the breath weapon have some effect! one last thing that i think is utterly redundant and stupid is the arrival of the god slayer. the climax was the freaking dragon! why do you need that totally unattached, probably gonna TPK, add NOTHING to the adventure monster at the end?

on the whole, eyes of the lich queen is like an entirely different mini campaign, and should be treated as such.for those levels, i think it's not as good as RHoD for example, but you see what fits.

2) the adventures are nicely built for a first time DM i think. i don't forsee any special problem. i suggest you go over encounters and interaction, andtry to think of several ways the players might deal with things. (for example, in EotLQ there are no stats to the silver dragon. what if they want to see if he's hiding something?)

also, try and make the adventure personal to the players- once you learn who are the characters, alter and change bits of the campaign to pull the PCs more in.

3)
heavy optimizer and mid optimizer? we may need more info, but a few ideas:
- ask the optimizer to sit with the rest, and help each optimize the character better, help them around, so that they are on the same level.
- if he's areasonable person, you may ask him to build a less optimized character, or from a lower tier. the angle should be "this will help everyone have fun, but wouldn't it be more challenging to try this?"

hope this helped, Good Luck.

[Tokuhara]

i played some of it, here are some thoughts:

1)
- the forgotten forge is quite easy, and not that challenging, but it's fun. it's a good introduction to Eberron, if the players don't know it. if they do, they might cause trouble through investigating in Sharn in all kind of unexpected avenues and more. the toughest thing was surprisingly the two horrid rats, due to their high damage. all in all, not bad, not great.

- shadows of the last war has it's good points and bad. the general atmosphere is nice, but... many of the encounters are quite easy, especially for a half decent party. (the skeletons on the ship, the living color spray), white hearth is a nice dungeon, but the key cards are very confusing, and i think one or two of them don't even open anything (was it orange?) the Mournland bit is IMHO very, very lacking. characters of that level should stand the flimsiest chance surviving there, and it's supposed to be a land of weird horrors and mind boggling confusing and bothering things. and they face some warped wolves and a wounded crab? come on! i think the writers really missed it on this one. i really liked the dig site with the emerald claw camp. an interesting challenge.but be wary of your party is the "charge first, scout later" kind of party- it will be a TPK. as to the ambush at the end- some parties give the changling cleric what he ants, some fight. of them, enough succeeded defeating him and his minions to warrant upgrading the ambush' strength. all in all, some points good, some just bad. look it over and make it better.

- whispers of the vampire's blade: i quite liked the premise- chasing the vampire over horse, party, air, lightning rail and so on. a sort of recuring villain that keeps getting away! plus- nice challenging encounters, that are over the party's level, but are "one in a day". the problem comes in the execution of the premise. the module assumes at some times that the party is just gonna sit and wait for the vamp to appear. for example, on th air ship- the captain doesn't allow them to search the ship. what party of adventurers will stand for that? sneaking around, invisibility, disguise/ alter self and more, and they might well find the vamp ahead of time. the same goes with the lighting rail- disallowed to go to the private booths or something like that (forgot the details) ohhhh reallly? i heard a tale or two of the party catching the vamp on the carriage already, ending with the death of most of the party by the way. again, if you know the party, and their tactics, you may prepare, but if they are inventive and smart, be ready to get the whole adventure botched.

- grasp of the emerald claw: now this was an excellent adventure! good premise, challenges, build up. i really liked it! the finale is also quite nice. only two (slight) complaints- some of the challenges are REALLY deadly. mostly i remember the drowned elf (drowned are really tough monsters!), and the apes being able to throw you off the building. (though a party that comes so high and doesn't have fly/ feather fall/ levitate ready may well deserve it) the bodak also feels... out of place, and really not fun. save or die just because of info gathering? and how exactly does it hide? i'd suggest to change it to some other threat, or make it's gaze do con damage instead (2d6?). all in all, a very solid and fun adventure i think.

- eyes of the lich queen: never played it, just read it and askedabout it, so talk my advice with a grain of salt. the Q'barra part is nice. i LOVED the tunnels the twin dragons use. the poisons of the poisondusk are said to be a tad too strong. other than that i heard nothing special. the running through the Lhazar principalities seems like a lot of fun, and i'd imagine that again, an inovative party might be able to "round corners" somehow. but it is a great place for improvisation and more. i really disliked the Dreadhold tunnels, mostly due to the low challenge, and the ridiculous plot of getting there. but that's my opinions. others seemed to like it. the interaction with the pirate prince at the end is nice, but i feel it could be done better, and should be fairly pen to players inginuity. the island is ok i guess, straightforward as hell. the argonessen bit... i don't know, felt a bit railroaded and silly. they "happen" to arrive when the chief fights for his life? "happen" to arrive at a conflict between the tribes? sure, prophecy and all that, but c'mon! the tower climb is kinda cool- a series of special combat encounters, fairly unique and thematic, though i feel they might drain the party too much to the final encounter, but i never tested it, so i don't know. the dragon fight should be fun, but i feel one thing ruins it- everybody suddenly getting the bloody improved evasion! the breath weapon is a thematic draconic power, why nullify it from the start? ifthe party want to spend resources to be protected (resist and protect spells) fine, but let the breath weapon have some effect! one last thing that i think is utterly redundant and stupid is the arrival of the god slayer. the climax was the freaking dragon! why do you need that totally unattached, probably gonna TPK, add NOTHING to the adventure monster at the end?

on the whole, eyes of the lich queen is like an entirely different mini campaign, and should be treated as such.for those levels, i think it's not as good as RHoD for example, but you see what fits.

2) the adventures are nicely built for a first time DM i think. i don't forsee any special problem. i suggest you go over encounters and interaction, andtry to think of several ways the players might deal with things. (for example, in EotLQ there are no stats to the silver dragon. what if they want to see if he's hiding something?)

also, try and make the adventure personal to the players- once you learn who are the characters, alter and change bits of the campaign to pull the PCs more in.

3)
heavy optimizer and mid optimizer? we may need more info, but a few ideas:
- ask the optimizer to sit with the rest, and help each optimize the character better, help them around, so that they are on the same level.
- if he's areasonable person, you may ask him to build a less optimized character, or from a lower tier. the angle should be "this will help everyone have fun, but wouldn't it be more challenging to try this?"

hope this helped, Good Luck.

1) I see. So I couldn't have the party complete the Emerald Claw line and dive into EotLQ? Would it be possible to segway into that adventure?

2) Thanks

3) Okay: The party is primarily Mid-Optimizers with one player who prefers high optimization. He either plays Wizard McCheatyface or Rogue Isneakattackeverything. He kind of is a campaign-killer with a habit of DM annoyance.

One last thing: What is RoHD?

[Kol Korran]

1) I see. So I couldn't have the party complete the Emerald Claw line and dive into EotLQ? Would it be possible to segway into that adventure?

you can finish the emerald claw (and then maybe some victory celebrations, or a great reward from the house of making, mostly to... keep the player's mouths shut) and then you can say they have a break (two weeks? two months? more?) and have a dragon in disguise approach them. he has heard through his contacts of their last escapades, andwell, he thinks they might be fit for a job he has in mind... :smallwink:


3) Okay: The party is primarily Mid-Optimizers with one player who prefers high optimization. He either plays Wizard McCheatyface or Rogue Isneakattackeverything. He kind of is a campaign-killer with a habit of DM annoyance.

sorry for asking, but if the player is acampaign killer, or a cheater, why the hell are you playing with him? i wouldn't play with jerks (and he sounds like one)

if you do have to play with him, and he's not responsive to the suggestions in my previous post (which proves, by the way, that hs IS a jerk) you can rule out all the cheesy spells you know, make monsters quite hard to sneak attack, and the like (the modules have a fair share of constructs, living spells and undead, this being Eberron and the blood of Vol involved, so perhaps you're good allready)


One last thing: What is RoHD?

sorry, i shouldhave explained- Red Hand Of Doom, a very famous level 5-9 adventure that features stopping a goblnoidarmy supproted by soem dragons. it is considered really good, though it has some bugs. the forum ahs an EXCELLENT Dm's guide (including fixing bugs and general advice) somewhere, look it up. there are numerous campaign logs posted about, if you want to check it out.

[Tokuhara]

you can finish the emerald claw (and then maybe some victory celebrations, or a great reward from the house of making, mostly to... keep the player's mouths shut) and then you can say they have a break (two weeks? two months? more?) and have a dragon in disguise approach them. he has heard through his contacts of their last escapades, andwell, he thinks they might be fit for a job he has in mind... :smallwink:

Interesting... The party may call it "cheesey," but it works. Now to avoid the whole "Everybody meets at a tavern" cliche



sorry for asking, but if the player is acampaign killer, or a cheater, why the hell are you playing with him? i wouldn't play with jerks (and he sounds like one)

if you do have to play with him, and he's not responsive to the suggestions in my previous post (which proves, by the way, that hs IS a jerk) you can rule out all the cheesy spells you know, make monsters quite hard to sneak attack, and the like (the modules have a fair share of constructs, living spells and undead, this being Eberron and the blood of Vol involved, so perhaps you're good allready)

He just lacks the fine skill of powering down for the campaign. I'll speak to him tomorrow



sorry, i shouldhave explained- Red Hand Of Doom, a very famous level 5-9 adventure that features stopping a goblnoidarmy supproted by soem dragons. it is considered really good, though it has some bugs. the forum ahs an EXCELLENT Dm's guide (including fixing bugs and general advice) somewhere, look it up. there are numerous campaign logs posted about, if you want to check it out.

I'll check it out. Maybe I can use it as the "climax" for the story (after beefing it us a few notches of course)

[Kol Korran]

Interesting... The party may call it "cheesey," but it works. Now to avoid the whole "Everybody meets at a tavern" cliche

why is it cheesy? the party survived the Mournland, were supposedly (depending on how much is know) taken a rogue spy of Breland through a daring chase, they even ventured into a major Xen'dric ruin, and came back with some fine treasure! not to mention House Cannith has an interest in them... this is a nice reputation for a party, a good reason for anotehr patron to come by.

as to the "meet in a tavern"- the lost forge allready assumes the party members know each other, and the encounter actually starts while crossing one of the bridges of Sharn. i suggest to tell the party to link (at least the end) of their back stories so they trust each other (enough), or have a reason to work together.


I'll check it out. Maybe I can use it as the "climax" for the story (after beefing it us a few notches of course)

note that due to the levels, it's either RHoD or the lich queen, the levels are the same. Asalan Cross did a wonderful transition of the game into Eberron, you can check out his excellent campaign log and rendition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110022&highlight=doom+aslancross)

[Tokuhara]

why is it cheesy? the party survived the Mournland, were supposedly (depending on how much is know) taken a rogue spy of Breland through a daring chase, they even ventured into a major Xen'dric ruin, and came back with some fine treasure! not to mention House Cannith has an interest in them... this is a nice reputation for a party, a good reason for anotehr patron to come by.

as to the "meet in a tavern"- the lost forge allready assumes the party members know each other, and the encounter actually starts while crossing one of the bridges of Sharn. i suggest to tell the party to link (at least the end) of their back stories so they trust each other (enough), or have a reason to work together.

okay. I plan on this campaign being very plot-driven with a few of my own custom NPCs, such as Baeren, a Dwarven Magic Item merchant who secretly works for a cartel, selling "essential" magic items for less than the standard price that secretly are cursed to give players a secret -4 to Divination and -4 Enchantment spells cast by this cartel. This way, the cartel could "help" the party should things get ugly, but could lead to a side quest that is more/less a Godfather "favor."


note that due to the levels, it's either RHoD or the lich queen, the levels are the same. Asalan Cross did a wonderful transition of the game into Eberron, you can check out his excellent campaign log and rendition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110022&highlight=doom+aslancross)

Excellent work to him