Archivists and Arcane Spells

[DeAnno]

I'm in the middle of writing a comprehensive arcane blasting guide, and there are a number of fuzzy areas in the Archivist rules which I'd like some input on. First, is there any way besides convenient Favored Souls of Bahamut/Tiamat to get any Sorcerer/Wiz spell as a Divine spell? I've heard about Southern Magician hijinx but am uncertain of the item creation rules surrounding that.

Secondly, the wording on Arcane Fusion refers to a "sorcerer spell you know". Does "sorcerer spell" refer to spells on the Sorcerer class list, or spells known due to having the Sorcerer class? Does a prepared caster technically even "know" any spells? Essentially, can an Archivist legally even use Arcane Fusion if he got his dirty hands on a divine version?

I realize this stuff will probably end up in the "debates" section at the back of the handbook, but I'd appreciate any insights or opinions people have to share.

[sreservoir]

also note that the wording is "spells found on scrolls containing divine spells" -- if we read this literally, the archivist cannot learn spells from scrolls with only one spell on it, but they can learn arcane spells as long as the scroll they're on contains at least two divine spells.

this is a ludicrous reading, of course.

divine magician gets all sor/wiz abjuration, divination, and necromancy spells.

anyspell (and its greater counterpart) should let you read an arcane scroll and scribe a scroll of it, which is divine because the type is determined by the class of the character, not the type of the spell.

there are hexers, of course, but that's really only accessible to adepts, which end with 5ths, and other archivists. it's possible to enter it and the psychic reformation the spells repeatedly. not very efficient, though.

[Jack_Simth]

I'm in the middle of writing a comprehensive arcane blasting guide, and there are a number of fuzzy areas in the Archivist rules which I'd like some input on. First, is there any way besides convenient Favored Souls of Bahamut/Tiamat to get any Sorcerer/Wiz spell as a Divine spell? I've heard about Southern Magician hijinx but am uncertain of the item creation rules surrounding that.Oh, that. Don't even need Southern Magician; just someone who can cast it and is willing to work with you.

First, from Prerequisities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#prerequisites):
It is possible for more than one character to cooperate in the creation of an item, with each participant providing one or more of the prerequisites. In some cases, cooperation may even be necessary.

If two or more characters cooperate to create an item, they must agree among themselves who will be considered the creator for the purpose of determinations where the creator’s level must be known. The character designated as the creator pays the XP required to make the item. (Emphasis added)

Combined with a parenthetical note as part of Scroll Activation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/scrolls.htm#activatetheSpell):
The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)(Emphasis added)

Normally, this is harmless; a Wizard providing Scribe Scroll for a Cleric needing a scroll of Greater Restoration, and making it Arcane, produces a scroll only accessible via Use Magic Device (it's not a Divine scroll, so the Cleric can't use it; it's not on the Wizard's spell list, so the Wizard can't use it).

In the case of an Archivist, however, it's useful - as the archivist can scribe, and prepare, any divine spell.

[DeAnno]

Stuff that's not only RAW, but RAI

Well that's pretty definitive there, and simply finding some random person who knows just about any spell shouldn't be that hard. Now all I need to do is figure out the legalese of them using Arcane Fusion.

[JaronK]

I'm in the middle of writing a comprehensive arcane blasting guide, and there are a number of fuzzy areas in the Archivist rules which I'd like some input on. First, is there any way besides convenient Favored Souls of Bahamut/Tiamat to get any Sorcerer/Wiz spell as a Divine spell? I've heard about Southern Magician hijinx but am uncertain of the item creation rules surrounding that.

There's an alternate domain thing in Complete Champion. There's also the Hexer PrC, which gets everything.


Secondly, the wording on Arcane Fusion refers to a "sorcerer spell you know". Does "sorcerer spell" refer to spells on the Sorcerer class list, or spells known due to having the Sorcerer class? Does a prepared caster technically even "know" any spells? Essentially, can an Archivist legally even use Arcane Fusion if he got his dirty hands on a divine version?

I think you're screwed on Arcane Fusion... "Sorcerer Spell" generally means "Spell you can cast by virtue of being a Sorcerer."

JaronK

[BinaryMage]

I'm in the middle of writing a comprehensive arcane blasting guide, and there are a number of fuzzy areas in the Archivist rules which I'd like some input on. First, is there any way besides convenient Favored Souls of Bahamut/Tiamat to get any Sorcerer/Wiz spell as a Divine spell? I've heard about Southern Magician hijinx but am uncertain of the item creation rules surrounding that.

Secondly, the wording on Arcane Fusion refers to a "sorcerer spell you know". Does "sorcerer spell" refer to spells on the Sorcerer class list, or spells known due to having the Sorcerer class? Does a prepared caster technically even "know" any spells? Essentially, can an Archivist legally even use Arcane Fusion if he got his dirty hands on a divine version?

I realize this stuff will probably end up in the "debates" section at the back of the handbook, but I'd appreciate any insights or opinions people have to share.

You might find this (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=3545.0) useful. Other than what's been previously mentioned, I do not know of anything, but honestly, archivists are so insanely good anyway that not having access to all arcane spells really isn't an issue. I'm glad to see a blasting guide, so few people seem interested in that kind of build. Sure, it isn't as powerful as the traditional battlefield control wizard, but it sure is fun to play.

[DeAnno]

I think you're screwed on Arcane Fusion... "Sorcerer Spell" generally means "Spell you can cast by virtue of being a Sorcerer."

It isn't so much being screwed or not screwed; I just want to present the fullest extent of the RAW. Archivists have the whole Sor/Wiz list, so I need to give them at least an overview in the handbook even if they aren't exactly a common blasting choice.

[JaronK]

It isn't so much being screwed or not screwed; I just want to present the fullest extent of the RAW. Archivists have the whole Sor/Wiz list, so I need to give them at least an overview in the handbook even if they aren't exactly a common blasting choice.

Right, well, point being you wouldn't have "Sorcerer spells." The more questionable one is whether you have "Paladin Spells" if you're an Archivist/Sacred Exorcist/PrC Paladin, which matters a lot when Battle Blessing comes up... might work, might not.

JaronK

[Jack_Simth]

It isn't so much being screwed or not screwed; I just want to present the fullest extent of the RAW. Archivists have the whole Sor/Wiz list, so I need to give them at least an overview in the handbook even if they aren't exactly a common blasting choice.
Ah... they also get Bard spells that way, and Wu-Jen spells that way, and Sorcerer-only spells that way, and any Warmage-only spells that way, and any Beguiler-only spells that way, and any Dread Necromancer-only spells that way, and so on. That particular method can net you *any* spell, as an Archivist... although you're paying in XP and GP for each one.

Oh yes: And a Warlock-12, optimized for Use Magic Device, becomes ridiculously useful for the Archivist.

[sreservoir]

that don't need that for bard spells, because divine bard.

hm, greater anyspell only goes up to 5th, that sucks.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Spells prepared via (Greater) Anyspell are cast as arcane spells:

When you cast the arcane spell, it
works just as though cast by a wizard
of your cleric level except that your
Wisdom score sets the save DC (if
applicable).

Anyspell and Greater Anyspell cannot be used to obtain a divine scroll of an arcane spell.

[dextercorvia]

Spells prepared via (Greater) Anyspell are cast as arcane spells:


Anyspell and Greater Anyspell cannot be used to obtain a divine scroll of an arcane spell.

It also is of no use to an Archivist, since they have no domain slots.