Help please on a build on a character concept with Rage/sublime way :D

[ranger557]

Hey guys its me again, with another thread asking advice about a good build that will go with my concept. I think i posted this long time ago but it was more just getting opinions, but this time around, I am actually going to build this character and play him in a upcoming game.

So my character concept is based off Sol Badguy from the GGX series. Therefore, this game is gestalt and pretty much any books go for 3.5. My initial thought was that he would be build as a barbarian//swordsage. The reason is because even though he has a keen intellect and knows magic, the game only shows his physical prowess. So my fellow playgrounders, how would I build an effective character based off this concept?

I was thinking his disciplines would focus on Desert Wind, Shadow hand, Stone Dragon, and maybe Diamond Mind. For feats, i was thinking unarmed strike and TWF because in the game he fights like a badass with one hand holding a sword and the other his bare fist. However, my next question is his stats, i know optimize wise having Dex up the highest would make sense and easier with the Shadow blade and finesse feats, but in the game he was more Str based. So should I place stats on him like this? Str>Dex>Con>Wis>Int>Cha? Also these stats will be diced rolled. I appreciate any help, I know I might have to change builds to fit this concept lol.

[Hirax]

What level are you starting at? If you want maximal fire theatrics I feel like a full caster might be better. Perhaps wizard2/master specialist4/swiftblade9/abjurant champ5//swordsage20

I feel like swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)'s "haste personified" schtick fits better than barbarian, but if you insist on barbarian I'd throw 1 level of lion totem barbarian in there (Complete Champion) and stop there. Take the extra rage feat for a couple more uses of rage, realistically you won't need it more than 3 times a day.

[Godskook]

1.Just watched a youtube video, and in-as-much as 'realism' is concerned, dex can model his fighting prowess just as easily as str can. Admittedly, you'll probably want power attack too, but str isn't a 'bad' stat on swordsages.

2.If you want an example of a str-based fighter character, look at M. Bison or Zangief. Broad shoulders with an upper torso that's larger than the lower torso. Dex-based, or at least more 'balanced' fighters tend to have less impressive upper torso and better defined mid-riff, leading to the more 'classic' Ryu look.

3.You'll want to move away from the character in the show at least a little, just to make your PC your own, so don't get too hung up on replicating him exactly.

4.Unarmed swordsage is a commonly accepted variant to the normal swordsage. You get unarmed progression as a monk, along with IUS. You lose armor proficiencies(which gestalt gives you back). This also makes it pointless to go into most monk-like prestige classes.

5.Assuming you go Swordsage 20, your two main choices on your second side is to either cherry-pick from as many classes as possible or use build that would've worked even without gestalting with swordsage. Since you're talking about barbarian dips(and Hirax covered the later option a bit anyway), I'm guessing you're wanting the former approach. Some good choices are:

Barbarian 1 - Pounce
Swashbuckler 3 - In 3 levels, get dex to attack rolls and int to damage.
Swift Hunter(scout+ranger) - an extensive investment, but you add up to 7d6 skirmish onto your already impressive unarmed strike damage, and FE choices prevent most things from being immune.

[ranger557]

What level are you starting at? If you want maximal fire theatrics I feel like a full caster might be better. Perhaps wizard2/master specialist4/swiftblade9/abjurant champ5//swordsage20

I feel like swiftblade (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)'s "haste personified" schtick fits better than barbarian, but if you insist on barbarian I'd throw 1 level of lion totem barbarian in there (Complete Champion) and stop there. Take the extra rage feat for a couple more uses of rage, realistically you won't need it more than 3 times a day.

My apologies, we are starting at Lvl 5. The reason behind barbarian//swordsage was because Sol-badguy is the first gear and so he gets a boost of strength and power from it, which i can replicate in Rage, and the swordsage can replicate his combat moves with his sword "Fireseal" but not being to magical about it.

I think the caster would be interesting and badass but it's too much magic for this concept I think, don't you? watch how he fights, its epic :smallbiggrin: lol.


1.Just watched a youtube video, and in-as-much as 'realism' is concerned, dex can model his fighting prowess just as easily as str can. Admittedly, you'll probably want power attack too, but str isn't a 'bad' stat on swordsages.

2.If you want an example of a str-based fighter character, look at M. Bison or Zangief. Broad shoulders with an upper torso that's larger than the lower torso. Dex-based, or at least more 'balanced' fighters tend to have less impressive upper torso and better defined mid-riff, leading to the more 'classic' Ryu look.

3.You'll want to move away from the character in the show at least a little, just to make your PC your own, so don't get too hung up on replicating him exactly.

4.Unarmed swordsage is a commonly accepted variant to the normal swordsage. You get unarmed progression as a monk, along with IUS. You lose armor proficiencies(which gestalt gives you back). This also makes it pointless to go into most monk-like prestige classes.

5.Assuming you go Swordsage 20, your two main choices on your second side is to either cherry-pick from as many classes as possible or use build that would've worked even without gestalting with swordsage. Since you're talking about barbarian dips(and Hirax covered the later option a bit anyway), I'm guessing you're wanting the former approach. Some good choices are:

Barbarian 1 - Pounce
Swashbuckler 3 - In 3 levels, get dex to attack rolls and int to damage.
Swift Hunter(scout+ranger) - an extensive investment, but you add up to 7d6 skirmish onto your already impressive unarmed strike damage, and FE choices prevent most things from being immune.

ok interesting comments, it made me rethink a lot of how to build this guy.

1. Yeah in how he combats, he is very fast and very strong, so its hard to put what it would be more valuable to put in the PC's stats for Str and Dex. I know either way they will be both different builds. tough indeed lol

2. I see how you used the examples from SF that makes sense. Zangief is definitely a Str based fighter, but M. Bison was pumped with crazy powers so he has high Str and high Dex. From this it shows me that Sol-badguy changed too when he became the first prototype gear and got the boost in Str and Dex, so its hard to pin M.Bison and Sol because basically they have templates on them lmao. Ryu, i see him as how he balance himself with Dex and Str equally, so he is either of them and none of them at the same time :smallwink:.

3. On this one, I definitely 100% agree. Its hard to build concepts off real BAMFs in comics or video games, because some epic characters are like quarduple gestalt xx//xx//xx//xx, because of their vast powers and abilities. Sol-Badguy is no exception here too lol.

4.Sounds like an idea , ill definitely consider it, but doesnt the light armor you wear do not grant you your Wis bonus for the unarmed variant? I need to read that small section again.

5. I see that makes sense, so one side is swordsage and the other a combination of Full BAB classes? Swordsagexx//barbx/classxx/classxx? I mean barbarian is definitely one that fits his gear power boost, and swashbuckler makes sense with his keen intellect, but how would that work in a build? Do i focus on Dex the most and Str and Int second? Am i going the Weapon Finesse build with Str and the Int-to-dmg ability to help my damage output? I'm trying to understand this great under taking lol :smallbiggrin:. Thanks

[Hirax]

Remember that wizards have rage and bull's strength on their spell list, that was my thought initially. Though if wizard is too old wiseman-y for you, you could opt for battle sorcerer6/swiftblade9/ab champ5. The problem is that since you're starting at level 5, you wouldn't get rage as a spell until you got to level 6, so you'd be stuck with just bull's strength. However, battle sorcerer allows you to wear light armor with no spell failure chance. You'd wind up with 17 BAB if you went the wizard route, or 18 BAB if you went the battle sorcerer route.

edit: if you go the sorcerer route, you can really cut down on your magicalness by stacking the stalwart (Complete Mage) and battle sorcerer variants. This would crimp your spells known and give you free weapon focus and bonus hit points, basically giving you d8+2+con hit points for every sorcerer level.

[ranger557]

Remember that wizards have rage and bull's strength on their spell list, that was my thought initially. Though if wizard is too old wiseman-y for you, you could opt for battle sorcerer6/swiftblade9/ab champ5. The problem is that since you're starting at level 5, you wouldn't get rage as a spell until you got to level 6, so you'd be stuck with just bull's strength. However, battle sorcerer allows you to wear light armor with no spell failure chance. You'd wind up with 17 BAB if you went the wizard route, or 18 BAB if you went the battle sorcerer route.

edit: if you go the sorcerer route, you can really cut down on your magicalness by stacking the stalwart (Complete Mage) and battle sorcerer variants. This would crimp your spells known and give you free weapon focus and bonus hit points, basically giving you d8+2+con hit points for every sorcerer level.

Hmmm well I should have clarified this in the beginning. Even though Sol badguy is a badass and knows how to fight but also was the scientist that help build the weapons and gears. I am focusing on his post era, where he just fights like a badass and hides his true identity. So in other words no spellcasting for this build really. Thanks for the advice, and I KNOW spellcasters are BAMFs but i am going more melee strictly. So if you could give me advice on that, that would be great :smallbiggrin:. Thanks!

[Hirax]

I might just grab 1 level of barbarian and then go straight warblade on the other side in that case, perhaps even just for a few levels, then prc out to something else. 4 levels is a good break point to get out of warblade. Throw in a couple levels of fighter if you've got a mind to. The nice thing about going barb1/fighter1/warblade4 is that your second stance can be a level 3 stance. Out of the box, since by RAW you can't retrain stances, a straight warblade is stuck with 2 level 1 stances. You could always just ask your DM to waive this stupid restriction though. Alternatively you could cut the fighter level and get barbarian2, which would get you improved uncanny dodge when combined with warblade. From there occult slayer and witch slayer are a coupel cool prc candidates if you want to not only not cast spells, but smash people who do.

[ranger557]

I might just grab 1 level of barbarian and then go straight warblade on the other side in that case, perhaps even just for a few levels, then prc out to something else. 4 levels is a good break point to get out of warblade. Throw in a couple levels of fighter if you've got a mind to. The nice thing about going barb1/fighter1/warblade4 is that your second stance can be a level 3 stance. Out of the box, since by RAW you can't retrain stances, a straight warblade is stuck with 2 level 1 stances. You could always just ask your DM to waive this stupid restriction though. Alternatively you could cut the fighter level and get barbarian2, which would get you improved uncanny dodge when combined with warblade. From there occult slayer and witch slayer are a coupel cool prc candidates if you want to not only not cast spells, but smash people who do.

Hmmmm, interesting choice you have provided me with. so Swordsagexx//ftrx/barbx/warbladexx? thats what you think Sol badguy is based off? Watch a youtube video of him, hes pretty much a barbarian//swordsage, but yeah barbarian full on one side isnt that impressive. I'll check those slayer PrCs and see how they would work, but not sure of their cohesiveness for my build. I was looking at barbarian PrCs and how about Runescarred Berserker or Fist of the Forest sound? are those good? Or are there better ones out there?

[Hirax]

Runescarred berserker has spellcasting which is why I didn't suggest it, and a fist of the forest's primal living doesn't seem to fit. The frenzied berserker might be a bit over the top, and has annoying entry requirements. Barbarian really is a 1 level class. You'll have to try and get around the picture of the wussy looking elf in the warblade section of the book, I really do think throwing in some iron heart would be a good fit.

[navar100]

Be careful with Diamond Mind. While raging you won't be able to use the various maneuver that require a Concentration check such as (Greater) Insightful Strike and the saving throw maneuvers.

Especially with you wanting to use two weapon fighting, take Tiger Claw maneuvers.

[Endarire]

Warblade4/WhirlPounce Barbarian1/Warblade+X//Wizard and Wizard PrCsX

He's smart. He's deadly. He can be meaner than your worst nightmare. He can shrug off the nastiest of effects (that offer saves) with merely a thought.

And he's a full Wizard.

[ranger557]

Runescarred berserker has spellcasting which is why I didn't suggest it, and a fist of the forest's primal living doesn't seem to fit. The frenzied berserker might be a bit over the top, and has annoying entry requirements. Barbarian really is a 1 level class. You'll have to try and get around the picture of the wussy looking elf in the warblade section of the book, I really do think throwing in some iron heart would be a good fit.

Well I really do like Warblades, my favorite character is a warblade lol :smalltongue:. But yeah i was thinking since he know magic, i might as well get a Prc class that gives that option, but now i think maybe i should warbladexx//artificerxx. However, I need the Desert Wind discipline and rage to represent my concept. Here is who Sol-Badguy is.

http://guilty-gear.wikia.com/wiki/Sol_Badguy


Be careful with Diamond Mind. While raging you won't be able to use the various maneuver that require a Concentration check such as (Greater) Insightful Strike and the saving throw maneuvers.

Especially with you wanting to use two weapon fighting, take Tiger Claw maneuvers.

Yeah i know about the Rage and concentration skills based manuevers and the recovery system. But its the fluff im working with of course so i don't mind. Also i might go TWF.


Warblade4/WhirlPounce Barbarian1/Warblade+X//Wizard and Wizard PrCsX

He's smart. He's deadly. He can be meaner than your worst nightmare. He can shrug off the nastiest of effects (that offer saves) with merely a thought.

And he's a full Wizard.

True but i need fire techniques and rage for the concept and i don't want to be overtly magical either. so i was thinking.....

lvl 5 Barb2/WarBl3//Unarmed Variant Swordsage5

Human
Str > Dex > Con > Int > Wis > Cha

Feats : power attack, TWF(maybe), Improved Unarmed Strike, and Adaptive Style

What do you guys think?

[ranger557]

Hey I forgot to post some videos of how he fights too. Here they are, enjoy and thanks! :smallbiggrin:. Oh and they might be a little loud, so lower down your volume lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHhVR_dYClQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV8bcdlRD84