View Full Version : 3.5 -> Rt/dh/dw

2011-09-28, 09:31 AM
Basicly, me and a friend of mine are trying to convert some of the leveling mechanics from 3.5 to something similar to rogue trader for a rl game, and we need some input and try to keep this balanced.

The idea so far:
500 xp each session, which you can spend to buy anything from hp, bab, saves to feats and class abilities. No classes are involved, but levels are. You buy anything you would normally get from a level up. New levels bring the players new lists to buy from. You level every 4-8 sessions. Reward xp is given on finishing big plot lines.

An important change to the rules considers spells, which will work at will, and need to be bought seperately. The at will part means a strong selection is made to prevent instant game breakers. Buffs will always be on, but only 1 buff per 3/4/5 casterlevels is allowed.

The biggest problem with all this is the pricing. How good are 5 hp compared to a +1 on your will save or a feat. Most pricing remains constant, except for stat changes, which have increasing prices.

Which books to use will depend on what the players want to play, rather then converting the whole bunch. Some of the normal prerequisites will have to be rewritten. It might best to start simple and allow for more mixing of classes, then have a lot and lose track.

{table]Type | Price
5 hp | 200
+1 to a save | 300
+1 bab | 300
+1 caster level | 300
feat | 300-500
class ability | 300-500
spell | 200-500

For level 1 (incomplete, but to get an idea)
{table]Type | Prerequisite | Price
5 hp (4) | - |200
+1 to a save (4) | - |300
+1 bab |- | 300
+1 arcane caster level |Int/Cha 13 | 300
+1 divine caster level | Wis/Cha 13 |300
Blind fight | - | 300
Combat expertise| Int 13 | 300
Combat reflexes | Dex 13 | 300
Dodge | Dex 13 | 400
Exotic weapon proficiency | - | 300
Improved initiative | - | 500
Rage 1/day | - | 500
Fast movement| - | 400
Magic missile |- | 500
Light |- | 200
Resistance | - |500

2011-09-28, 09:47 AM
I hope you are aware that, in order to do this, you'll have to list every single ability separately, right?
Then there are possibly problems on how caster levels relate to spell levels (no relation in RT/DH, since neither of them actually exist), abilities relate to hit points (HP, or better: HD are an indication of character level in d20).

If I were you, I'd try to adapt RT/DH to a fantasy setting, and maybe adapt success calculations to a d20-based model rather than adapting d20 to RT/DH progression systems.

All things considered, d20 really isn't that good a system in many, many respects, but of course, Rogue Trader and Dark Heresy aren't without flaws (and which game system is?) Still; I think you'd gain more by adapting it the other way around, or making Rogue Trader/Dark Heresy fit for a fantasy setting (or looking into Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay) than trying to morph D20 (which is a system that relies incredibly strongly on the levelling progression system) into something it's not meant to be.

If you pull it off: Chappeau. You just did a ton of work, and probably improved D20 by no small margin. But again; it's a ton of work, and it's really hard to measure XP values for all of the abilities, hit points, BaB, saves and more.
The biggest challenge probably lies in power-builds, but also in making sure non-powerbuilds can still be made to fit their player.

2011-09-28, 10:12 AM
Thx for the quick response! And I agree, it is a lot of work and quite difficult to get it right. Especially the spell part. I mean, unlimited magic missiles? You could get this at level 1, while entire 3.5 builds revolve around getting it.

It might be easiest to do this with just the PHB for class abilities and take some spells (domains as spell trees) and feats from other books. That would be easy to do and one night op playtesting should give some quick pointers.

One of the things we didn't like so much in RT, was very slow power gain with increasing levels. A powerbuild level 1 tank build could still have a chance against a mediocre level 8 tank. About half way, I found leveling up quite boring , while in 3.5 it was always a bonanza of flashing new moves and spells.

2011-09-28, 11:00 AM
Yeah; I can understand that...
I've gotten more used to slower progression in that you gain small stuff along the road that can really help, and are usually tactical decisions. I've mate a RT Astropath Transcendent who started out with ALL telepathing spells. All of them. The only way to build up was to look into the other two psyker paths, and those two were the paths I was actually interested in, but couldn't access at character creation. :S

Anyway; the flashy levelling of D20 is, in my opinion, rather boring and repetitive. Of course; you gain all these awesome things, but it's stale play without progression for quite some time, and then, all of a sudden, you become lots stronger, better, smarter.
So I like gradual progression, and I imagine you do, too, because your OP was all about gradual progression. :)

2011-09-28, 12:25 PM
I played a missionary, which was good fun and he did gain some interesting abilities, but most of his party buffs were also covered by the rogue trader and the psyker. The navigator I played had his lidless stare maxed and all the other powers aren't that special. Except for the teleport thing, but since it's only one power per turn, not that awesome.

Our group consists mostly of powerhungry fellows, so dropping the xp motivation helps us focus on the rp reasons behind decisions, instead of just profit or xp.

We have indeed come to the point where we tried most of the power builds and went from 3.5 to RT for a new kind of cookie. Another reason for that was, that the others hardly knew some of the obscure feats and abilities that were used. With RT, most of the stuff was common good with some special exceptions. We really liked that flexability and simplicity, and with such a new system, lots of combinations are possible.

How would you imagine the RT to fantasy conversion?
Background -> Races (much like the xenos)
Classes -> Classes (this shouldn't be that hard)
Level list -> Take 2-3 common builds with the class and use the important stuff

2011-09-28, 05:35 PM
Instead of taking all this time doing this, why don't you just play War Hammer Fantasy Roleplay?

Howler Dagger
2011-09-28, 05:57 PM
Instead of taking all this time doing this, why don't you just play War Hammer Fantasy Roleplay?

........Because he doesnt like War Hammer Fantasy Roleplay?
Also, for spells and stuff, you could use something such as the spell point system or a spells to psionics translation, and have them buy power points and manifester/caster level with EXP

2011-09-29, 01:36 AM
Look for the Complete Control book by Dreamscarred Press. It did essentially what you're attempting to do. I'm not sure of the balance myself, but I have been using it as a reference for my own conversion.

2011-09-30, 01:14 PM
Look for the Complete Control book by Dreamscarred Press. It did essentially what you're attempting to do. I'm not sure of the balance myself, but I have been using it as a reference for my own conversion.

Wow, that is awesome! I think we might use this. Then the DM just has to decide on how to award xp. Excellent!