Help Making Spelltheif

[Gorfang113]

So I was looking for a class to give one of my PC's as her character. She wants to be a halfling with levels in a rogueish class. The party already has a character for scouting (a scout) and for trap disabling (Artificer). So I figured I would give her something that focused on sneak attack. And I found spelltheif. Ive never used this class before, and am not sure how to make a decent one, so I would like some advice on how to do so without screwing up her character to badley. She's lv 12 (ECL 13, as all of my PCs get the xorvintaal exarch template).

Edit: I forgot to mention, but I give my players slightly more feats than normal. So she gets 6 feats instead of the normal amount. Also, her stats are 18, 16, 14, 14, 12, 10 (not assigned yet).

[Keld Denar]

How would she feel about having her own casting. Cause while Spellthief12 is interesting and kinda fun, Spellthief1/Wizard4/UnseenSeer7 with Master Spellthief (feat in Complete Scoundrel) is nearly identical in flavor and vastly more powerful given that it casts as an 11th level wizard. That gives you 6th level spells which brings into play awesome buffs like Improved Invisibililty and Elemental Body. Now you have no problem qualifying for SA on your own, and Unseen Seer actually gets spells that allow you to situationally amp your SA damage to healthy levels (or unhealthy for your foe). Spellthief12 only gets like, 3rd level spells, and only a couple. It has a lot of potential there.

[Gorfang113]

I would love to do that and if she was experienced as a player I would be happy to give her that. The problem is that this is going to be only her third session, with the first two both with her using rogue. I'd rather not overwhelm a new player with a caster build like that. But I will have to remember that, cause I do like your build.

[King Atticus]

I'm not a big fan of the class in and of itself, but it does make a decent 1st level dip for a Factotum. Lets him use all those versatile arcane wands that come in handy to sneaky first-to-act types (knock, nerveskitter,etc.) and it can do some sneak attack stuff if you want it to.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If she wants a dedicated sneak attacker that doesn't need to do much else, then look no further than the Thug Fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) with the Sneak Attack substitution (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter). Give her Physical Prowess (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a) and the Zhentarim Soldier (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a) substitution levels. Get Weapon Finesse, (Improved, Greater) TWF, Craven (CoR), and Imperious Command (DotU), with the Never Outnumbered skill trick (CS). Give her the Claw Gloves and Mantle of the Predator from the Garb of the Hunting Cat item set (MIC), Deathstrike Bracers (MIC), Rogue's Vest (MIC), Crystal Mask of Dread (MIC), Mithralmist Shirt (MIC), and a decent array of other necessary item effects (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851).

[Keld Denar]

Also, print this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44299) out and give it to her. And read it youself. In fact, everyone should read this.

[Gorfang113]

Thanks for that, that will help immensly.

[Person_Man]

Spellthieves are "trick" class. They don't really have many strait forward combos. They don't have enough Sneak Attack to be a pure damage dealer. But here are a few suggestions that may help:

Staggering Strike feat: A successful sneak attack Staggers opponent for 1 round. Complete Adventurer

Maiming Strike feat: Forgo 2d6 sneak attack for 1 charisma damage. 3-6 Cha damage is often enough to kill most animals and magical beasts, and many monstrous humanoids, and nerfs Cha based casters. Exemplars of Evil.

Combat Panache feat: Imposes your Charisma bonus as a penalty to 1 enemy's AC. You can switch the bonus, but can't apply it to more then one enemy at once. For a 12th level Cha based character, this means you can basically impose a -6 to -8ish penalty, which is a fairly big deal. PHBII

Iajutsu Focus Skill: It's not a class Skill for you, but it is Cha based, and you have a bunch of Skill points. It's an easy way for a mid level Cha based character to add a bunch of bonus damage to attacks against Flat Footed enemies for a minimal investment.

Slippers of Battledancing magic item: Allows you to use your Charisma bonus to-hit with certain weapons in place of Strength. Seriously cuts down on MAD. DMGII 272.

Alter Self: Probably the most important spell for a mid-level Gish-ish class. It can be used in many ways (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=343.0). Starting at level 14 your player will want to trade up to Polymorph for boss battles instead.

Obtain Familiar feat: Familiars can Share Spells (including Alter Self, which means you can turn your cat into a dinosaur, or anything with Polymorph), and can hold the charge of spells. Thus you can cast a spell before combat, have your Familiar hold it, and then on the first round of combat release 2 spells, giving you a big action advantage. Complete Arcane.

Borrowing from friends: If at all possible, a Spellthief wants to party with a Dragonfire Adept or Warlock. You can steal the Spell-like abilities that they aren't currently using, and they return to the uses as soon as you're done with them.

Common homebrew fixes that I suggest you just give your player: Increase their caster level to their Spellthief level (and not 1/2 their level). Increase the maximum level of spell-like abilities that they can steal to 1/2 their level (and not 1/3 their level). Give them Discover spells at 1st level. Make Spellgrace equal to their Charisma bonus, and not a measly +1 to +3. Allow the Steal Energy Resistance and Steal Spell Resistance abilities to stack from multiple uses (instead of limiting it to 10/20/30 and 5 points respectively). Allow him to use Detect Magic and Arcane Sight at-will (basically continuously) instead of limiting it to Cha uses per day. Increase caster progression (to Duskblade or Bard-ish casting). Give them Sleight of Hand, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive as class Skills.

[JaronK]

I'd recommend against Spelltheif for a starting player... it's got a single trick that's actually pretty hard to work with, and can get VERY frustrating to use. Also, they don't even have much sneak attack. What exactly are your goals for this character?

JaronK

[hex0]

You NEED to take 3 levels of Arcane Trickster asap. Impromptu Sneak Attack lets you steal any spell for free 1/day. You can qualify with just your spellthief levels by level 11. Or you could multiclass out to another class to get into it much sooner. Trapsmith and/or Suel Arcanamach are good candidates.