Need advice on not becoming a cliche

[Lord of Sporks]

I'm running an Eberron campaign, with what I think is an interesting and engaging plot. However, I have a major problem. For the full details check the spoiler but I'll summarize my problem below it.

I've decided to center my campaign around the destruction of Cyre and around the plane Xoriat. In my campaign Cyre was destroyed by an experimental weapon the Cyrians were working on. This device actually tapped into the pure magical power of an already existing spell that is affecting Eberron: that spell being the sealing spells that were used thousands of years ago to keep Xoriat from invading the material plane. Anyway they underestimated its power and Cyre was destroyed in the resulting explosion. A Cyrian noble who was one of the main backers of the project was outside of Cyre at the time and was the only member of the project to survive, along with the device's blueprints. He was horrified at being responsible for causing Cyre's destruction but he found some relief years later when the Last War ended. He rightfully believed that Cyre's destruction was a key factor in the move for peace. However he soon realized that this peace cannot last in the long term. The nations have powerful armies left over, as well as powerful grudges, and it will only take one ambitious ruler to send Khorvaire spiralling into war once more. He can't let that happen. If it does then Cyre was destroyed for nothing. So basically he decides to pull an Ozymandius from Watchmen. The nations need a new enemy to unite them, so he's going to give them that enemy: Xoriat. The first device's activation has caused the seal between the planes to weaken. In time it will repair itself, but for the moment it has become possible to summon abberations through the seal. He's going to stage a series of attacks on towns and cities by various summoned abberations. He'll then use his infuence to widley publicise these attacks and the threat of another invasion from Xoriat. He will then recreate the device and use it again, blaming it as an attack from Xoriat. This second device should weaken the seal to the point that Xoriat will be able to invade the material plane once again, giving the nations a new enemy to defeat and uniting them. He feels this is the only way to ensure a lasting peace in Khorvaire. He is the campaigns Big Bad.

If you didn't want to read that wall of text in the spoiler then just know that the campaign revolves around the Big Bad trying to secretly recreate the same event that destroyed Cyre while blaming it on abberations from Xoriat. If you've read or seen Watchmen, than he's basically Ozymandius.

Now here is my problem. His plan revolves around secrecy. He is doing everything in his power to hide what he is doing. In order to make this mean something to the players then the Big Bad has to be a well known and established character. And I can't just say "Oh, and there's this random npc noble thats doing stuff in the background" without their metagaming heads quickly realizing that he's probably going to be the villian. He has to have a purpose in the heroes story or they'll know he's the big bad right away. Also, the players need to get involved in stopping his plan before it's too late, otherwise they're just killing monsters until another nation just randomly blows up. The only way I can see to kill both birds at once is to have the heroes eventually start working for the Big Bad, thinking that they're on the side of Good. This has many benifits: They get to know the Big Bad without him just being a random NPC. They get to help him complete his plan without realizing it, which means that when they do find out he's the baddie they have enough knowledge about him and his plan, to be able to try and stop him. However there is one major, major problem with that scenario that is driving me crazy:

It's totally cliche. "Wow, it turns out that our wise and powerful mentor was really the Bad Guy the whole time? I sure didn't see that coming." I mean its totally unsurprising! People have seen that so many times that it's a bit of a shock when your main quest giver doesn't turn out to be the Big Bad.

So I need some advice: can anyone think of a way I can introduce the Big Bad and get the characters involved in stopping his evil plan without
a) making him the cliche evil mentor or
b) just dropping all subtlety and having some NPC just tell them who he is and what he's up to.

[Vladislav]

The Big Bad is moonlighting as a research assistant in a library to which the PCs are sent when they need more info on the strange events. So he offers them help and advice (genunely), and is being generally nice, until he realizes they are researching his own secret identity and the details of his secret plan. Then he has to walk a tightrope of appearing to help them, but not really.

[skycycle blues]

Similar to being the person that they work for initially, but instead, the Big Bad is somewhere lower on the totem pole. So, they take their missions from the King himself and the Big Bad is actually the leader of the King's Guard. You could do this while also having the King type person seem to be under the influence of someone else, who is loyal to your Big Bad. That way, they encounter him regularly, could even on occasion have encounters along with him and you could have him side with them to get rid of the Worm Tongue when they start to suspect something is up.

So pretty much, the Big Bad has himself set up as a good guy who acts as like the number 5 to the guy that he himself is making appear to be the Big Bad.

[Amphetryon]

The basic problem with avoiding a cliche? You're all but certain to fall into another one, simply by virtue of skipping the first one. There really are only so many stories to tell. See also: TVTropes.

The easiest way to make it feel less cliche is to populate the world with people who behave like people, rather than like cardboard cutouts. When they're actively engaging their environment, it won't seem quite as hackneyed.

[legomaster00156]

The best way to throw a stunner on your players is to make the BBEG a nameless NPC. "Wait, the farmer on the outskirts of town was the half-demon sorcerer intent on summoning his father to wreak havoc on the kingdom? Seriously?"

^ The above does not reflect my actual views of the best way to hide a BBEG.:smalltongue:

[herrhauptmann]

Read the Erevis Cale Trilogy by Paul S Kemp...

All you know is that some guys are trying to steal an artifact and probably do bad things with it. Turns out, they're just minions. The big bad doesn't even show up until book 2, after the artifact is stolen. And the heroes don't even meet him until the start of book 3. Where they barely escape with their lives.

The Big Bad uses various words to describe what it is he desires to create with the stolen artifact, but the reader doesn't discover that until the middle or so of book 3 (if they're insightful). Otherwise, it's the end of book 3 when his plan is finally being carried out.


Plan is something along the lines of:
1)Minions steal artifact
2)Master drains the life energies of many powerful devils and angels (CR 15 and above)
3)Minions tap the energies of several mythallars
4)Master steals an entire temple/fortress from the God of Chaos and Murder
5)Master creates the Crown using the stolen energies of two mythallars.


Total time the protagonists were face to face with the big bad? 15 minutes? That's not very long at all.
And it worked partly because the Big Bad was a total unknown to them. If it had been: "Manshoon is planning to steal this item" they'd have teleported to his bedroom to murder him and his pet beholders in his sleep. Not NEARLY as interesting.

[Kol Korran]

hhhhmmmm... ok, some thoughts: (sorry, a bit long)

- the "villain" starts out actually as a good, stalward guy (perhaps with some slight ruthless tendencies, but that could be due to being jaded from the war.) he may start researching the mourning (trying to figure out what went wrong) IMMEDIATELY after the mourning (before the treaty of Thronehold) hiring the PCs (ex- Cyrians woudl work really well!) either sending them to the Mournland, to Seals of the gatekeepers, and anything else that might help.

hey, he might even join some expeditions!

the idea of this first part is that the guy should appear to be an OK, likeable, altruisitc guy, though perhaps with a sarcastic/ cynical humor, but coming through at difficult situations. this is for the PCs to like him

but exploring the Daelkyr, and the Mournland must have an effect on a person. make there be trials and tribulations that scar the characters mind, test them, trying to drive them away, towards madness, insanity, despair and the like. this should affect the PCs as well, perhaps even make one "obsolete" (if you really want to signify the horror), but on the whole the PCs survive it. somewhat jarred, perhaps with some mental scars, but they survive.

there should be some breaks between exploration and exploration (to cover up time), or some other way to cope with the meteoric way PCs tend to level up and the time frame.

the patron does so as well, (especially as he spend night over night exploring them, and their artifacts)and the party may even be worried about hi, heck, you might even have him break down and the party "bring him back" somehow, thinking now he is (mostly ok)

in the background there are rumors that the war will end, that it had come to a stop. but certain incidents prove that some just won't stop fighting (Valenar, Darguun, Droaam, perhaps even rebellious troops of the five nations). this brings more sarcasem from the main guy, saying it would never happen.

that, combined with the miserable treatment of the Mourners (of which the PCs are part) should lend to a jaded point of view. the PCs might join him!

Interlude: Thronehold is announced! the main guy is surprised. play it out shortly, perhaps they are even invited as someone'sguest, seeing the negotiations, squabblings, politics. this could be interesting, if you play it right. but at the end the main guy mumbles something on the likes... "it happened, it really happened! but they are not there yet... you see how they argued? how they fought with words instead of weapons? they just don't get it..." (or something of the sort)

part 2: from this point on the main guy works towards repeating the process. the PCs should (hopefully) be persuaded at this point that he is good. give "progress reports" of how close he is to solve the mystery of the Mourning, or other plausible thing. if you wish hiom to have less interaction with the PCs (so they do not suspect) have him be injured enough as to no longer be able to particpate.

but there should be some signs to his deterioration, including some "strange" missions, such as obtaining ingredients for the eldritch machine they have clues caused the mourning, or "obliterating a criminal"- an artificer who build a new part or even "setting a miniature mourning/ opening a miniature temporary rift to Xoriat as a test-run.

yes, the party might suspect, and they might face the BBEG, when he shows some signs of madness. and also serious protections (new mooks) to drive them away, and hide himself. if you did the job right, then they now suspect him to be influenced by the research and expeditions, and try to either find a way to save him, or obliterate him... depening on how much they like/d the guy.

there should be a time limit to force them to a hard decision

then at the final, i think you should have one of three conclusions:
- the party tries to cure him (through some plot thingy), but they failed, and he stays mad, and they are forced to kill their one time friend and altruistic person
- they try to cure him, and the cure is working! but.. he's not changed. "you think the mournland did this to me? the Daelkyr drove me to this? and i had such faith in you. it is us! Brelanders! Cyrians! Aunderians! karrnathi and Thranes! we bring more horror than the Daelkyr ever will! i'm doing this to save us, to teach us a lesson we won't forget! this is the only way!" (this idea iscloser to what you envisioend i think)
- the party decides they can't risk trying to cure him (or don't want to?) and decide to kill him. in the last rounds of the battle he mumbles, mutters in madness about how it could help? how it could destroy? that he laid the groundwork for both, but haven't decided yet. "it's so hard, my mind so confused..." but the process HAS begun. just before killing him he ask The PCs to make the choice (which could remove the mournland, or create another), and they reach the machine/ magic/ whatever. but they don't have his knowledge, his expertise, but the machine is running. will they try and activate it towards one way or another? will they take it upon them to either create another mournland, or not use the only chance to remove the exixsting one? or will they try and destroy it? (which in itself can bring all kind of complications)

hope this helped,
Kol.

[Lord of Sporks]

Thanks for all this advice guys, it's really helpful.

Vladislav and skycycle blues, those are really good ideas. I'm not sure which of two I'll end up using (or whether I'll combine them), but it's certianly opened my mind up to other possibilities. I might lean toward the research assistant idea because in the last session, to my surprise, one of the players became interested in researching the monster they just slayed.

Also thank you Amphetryon for that wise pearl of DMing advice. I'll try to keep that in mind.

Finally, thank you for the long and detailed post Kol Korran. Sadly I don't think I'll be able to use your plan, mostly because I've already (just) started it, so the timeframe is off and we're after the thronehold accords. Makes me wish I'd asked for advice earlier, because having it take place before that is really interesting, especially when you make them involved. PC's love to be involved in world changing events. The rest of the story is really good too, arguably better than my original plan. I'll try to see what elements I can add cleanly into mine. You seem to be an expert storycrafter, and I really appreciate your input.

[nedz]

As Amphetryon has intimated: your chance of telling a truly unique story is virtually nil, at least if you are expecting the uniqueness to come from the plot. Almost all plots have been done.
To quote a once famous comedien "Its the way I tell 'em". The way to avoid cliche's is to flesh out your story with interesting characters.
Twists are good too, and you seem to have some of those already.
Leading your players along into thinking that you are running one cliche, only to break the pattern will increase their interest.

[archon_huskie]

Ozymanidus is such a shock to the other Crimebusters because he used to be a Crimebuster too. So if a player drops continue the game but turn that character into a background NPC character who the players bum into every so often. Even have the PCs do a few favors for the character on occassion. Then sit back and watch as the Player realize that this is the BBEG and they had helped him carry out his schemes.

Alternatively. Have the BBEG be a princess they rescued from a dragon. Bonus points if the princess and dragon were working together all along.

[Dalek-K]

OK so here is what I did...

In a 4e game I was worried about being a cliche as well so for the BBEG I made it be one of the 5 players :smallbiggrin:

One of the players has been DM'ing and playing D&D for a couple decades and for the last session I told him that I would be running the NPC pacifist cleric and he could run (insert some above level 30 enemy that I've forgotten)

Another fun thing I've had players end up doing is run through a dungeon after finding the back door first :smallamused: The first fight was the boss and the rest was fodder (they kept looking for the real boss XD )