SR4 Hacking

[Earthwalker]

Myself and my group are having a terrble time working out what hackers do and how they do it. You are given a load of options in the book but it never seems to tie things together well. I think it might be we have no book giving an idea of how a security system would work in the wirless world (like an adventure book with a site to hack in it)

I was hoping some of the fine folk here may be able to help.

How would you set up matrix security for the foloowing and how would you defeat it.

The Job
Break into a the targets apartment, it’s a multi-story building with grade “c” security and a couple of on site security gaurds.
The front door has a hand print scanner and a call button to security or to an individual apartment.
The elevator has a thumb scanner and camera.
Cameras monitor each floor.
The door to each apartment is locked with another hand scanner.

Now my questions.
Would all this be on one wireless system?
Would I have to go in and hack each device as I went?
or would I be able to jump from the outside hand scanner to the master security node (if one exists) and just hack all security from one place?

What do people think, how would you set it up Gming?

[TheCountAlucard]

Myself and my group are having a terrble time working out what hackers do and how they do it.I really should get around to writing some sort of guidebook for hackers. :smalleek:


You are given a load of options in the book but it never seems to tie things together well.Believe you me, it's actually not as hard as it sounds.


I was hoping some of the fine folk here may be able to help.Will do what I can...


How would you set up matrix security for the following...I'll handle this first.


a couple of on site security guards.Do they patrol the place, or are they set up to watch the place on monitors?


The front door has a hand print scanner and a call button to security or to an individual apartment.Sounds okay to me, though I'm curious as to why they'd have a call button for individual apartments installed - after all, pretty much everyone's got a commlink.

Mechanics-wise, each resident would presumably have a "user account" with the security system, with the relevant biometric data (thumbprints and the like) keyed to said account, and the security team would have security accounts to better monitor everything.


The elevator has a thumb scanner and camera.Camera's fine, but the scanner seems a tad redundant, considering there's one at the entrance, and one on the door to each apartment...


Would all this be on one wireless system?Truth be told, it'd likely be safest for at least some of the system to be wired, so as to prevent jamming and whatnot from screwing everything up. The scanners, cameras, et cetera, would serve as peripherals, slaved together to the security node.


Would I have to go in and hack each device as I went?If the security node itself is wireless, you could technically bypass all the devices by hacking the security node directly.

or would I be able to jump from the outside hand scanner to the master security node (if one exists) and just hack all security from one place?This could also be done, if the security node is wired, but you'd have to splice your way into it.


What do people think, how would you set it up Gming?Well, how hard do you want it to be? How smart do your players play?

[Earthwalker]

Thank you for the reply.

I am currently playing a technomancer and trying to check my options at breaking into places.

So if you go for a system where the doors and cameras are slaves to a security node. And they are wired in. Lets for get about the scanner on the lift, as you say its a bit redundant.

Lets also say that occasionally one or both gaurds walk the corridors to check on things, but mainly sit in a security office watching cameras.
As a Technomancer how would you get inside ?
How would you deal with it if a camera in the lobby pointed at the scaner on the front door?

[LibraryOgre]

Thank you for the reply.

I am currently playing a technomancer and trying to check my options at breaking into places.

So if you go for a system where the doors and cameras are slaves to a security node. And they are wired in. Lets for get about the scanner on the lift, as you say its a bit redundant.

Lets also say that occasionally one or both gaurds walk the corridors to check on things, but mainly sit in a security office watching cameras.
As a Technomancer how would you get inside ?
How would you deal with it if a camera in the lobby pointed at the scaner on the front door?

Basically, it requires you to spoof two targets. First, you attack the camera, and have it replay a few seconds of blank images again and again... so they don't see anything. You then go up to the thumb scanner and tell it that your thumb scan is acceptable (or that it's just received an acceptable one). Once you're through, you let the scanner and camera go back to normal. This will require rolling on a few different forms, but I'm too lazy and sick to look up which ones. :smallsmile:

Now, as a technomancer, you might try some different things, too. Like find an empty apartment and set up a sprite to have it give a low-priority alert at a certain point... nothing that's going to call the cops in C security, but something that will get security coming by (and thus, not near you). You can blank cameras (having them display looped footage)... and heaven help them if they have smartware in their guns.

[Earthwalker]

Basically, it requires you to spoof two targets. First, you attack the camera, and have it replay a few seconds of blank images again and again... so they don't see anything. You then go up to the thumb scanner and tell it that your thumb scan is acceptable (or that it's just received an acceptable one). Once you're through, you let the scanner and camera go back to normal. This will require rolling on a few different forms, but I'm too lazy and sick to look up which ones. :smallsmile:


See I never thought to spoof a camera and scanner.
I would guess you find the signal with a electronic warfare + scan.
Then its Hacking + Spoof to change things.
Of course this works if it’s a wireless system. The problem I had in a recent game sesssion was similar to this, a wired in camera and a wired in hand scanner. If I wanted to mess with the scanner I would have to open it up and use logic + hardware. Then get a chance to spoof the data. Not an easy task if a camera is watching you.
It just felt rubbish being shut down by having none wireless devices.



Now, as a technomancer, you might try some different things, too. Like find an empty apartment and set up a sprite to have it give a low-priority alert at a certain point... nothing that's going to call the cops in C security, but something that will get security coming by (and thus, not near you). You can blank cameras (having them display looped footage)... and heaven help them if they have smartware in their guns.

This is again another good suggest. I will remember this. Of course getting into the apartments system is another issue.

[GreyMantle]

The SR4 Hacking rules appear confusing and contradictory mostly because they are confusing and contradictory.
You can totally play with them as rough guidelines, but, for a coherent experience, you're going to have to do some hefty handwaving or houseruling. Both of which are totally viable option.

Another option is to use someone else's Matrix rules. My favorite are undoubtedly the ones from Ends of the Matrix (http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=48836). They were written by one of the SR4 designers who wanted to provide a hacking experience that actually works.

[Kaun]

Yeah i would say the cameras would defiantly be wired back to a security system as slave units but in a "c" building the chances that security system has a back door in it connected to a wireless network would be decent.

The thumb print scanners on the different apartment doors could likely be stand alone units especially if the building skimped during the installation of the system. If this was the case it is likely there would be a master override palm unit used to program the locks when tenants change, software back ups for this palm unit would likely be kept in the security node.

Bare in mind for a residential building a fire alarm would often cause all outer apartment doors to unlock so if your hacker could trigger a fire alarm but stop the alarm signal being transmitted to the local station it could give them a useful in and out + a possible distraction.

[Earthwalker]

Another option is to use someone else's Matrix rules. My favorite are undoubtedly the ones from Ends of the Matrix (http://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=48836). They were written by one of the SR4 designers who wanted to provide a hacking experience that actually works.

Thanks I have had a quick look and will look more. Not sure if my GM would want to change to these rules and what it would mean for my character if he did. I am still left with no real idea what security I will be facing and what I can deal with.


Yeah i would say the cameras would defiantly be wired back to a security system as slave units but in a "c" building the chances that security system has a back door in it connected to a wireless network would be decent.

The thumb print scanners on the different apartment doors could likely be stand alone units especially if the building skimped during the installation of the system. If this was the case it is likely there would be a master override palm unit used to program the locks when tenants change, software back ups for this palm unit would likely be kept in the security node.

Bare in mind for a residential building a fire alarm would often cause all outer apartment doors to unlock so if your hacker could trigger a fire alarm but stop the alarm signal being transmitted to the local station it could give them a useful in and out + a possible distraction.

All good ideas thanks.
How would you look for a backdoor into the security node ? Being in signal range and scanning or would a data search find something, do you think ?

[Earthwalker]

Other then generally having rules that don’t seem to help at all, in terms of clarity and a complete lack of usful examples I think the biggest problem I am having is how my GM is presenting the world.
A recent run to get into an apartment block. Had this security.
It was fenced off and had only 2 gates that allowed entry for vehicles or pedestrian traffic. The gates were controlled by a hand scanner that was wired into the gate and not wireless. To update new codes a security guard walked out with a chip and plugged it in. This is because of all the hackers that would just hack their way past the gate.
The gate itself is monitored by cameras, these too are wired to a separate secuirty hub. Again none of this is wireless or people would hack it.
The security hub is not linked to the general matrix in anyway. It is a standard wired system. It is linked to cameras on each floor and door locks on peoples aparments.
So far as a technomancer my entire contribution to the team is to pick them up in my van and drive them around.
From the answers so far no one seems to think this is odd, of course everything out be wired in its safer. Just seems there is no point in being a technomancer or hacker.

[Kaun]

the biggest problem I am having is how my GM is presenting the world.

This... This will always be a problem, if your gm isn't tech savy your world wont be either.


A recent run to get into an apartment block. Had this security.
It was fenced off and had only 2 gates that allowed entry for vehicles or pedestrian traffic. The gates were controlled by a hand scanner that was wired into the gate and not wireless. To update new codes a security guard walked out with a chip and plugged it in. This is because of all the hackers that would just hack their way past the gate.
The gate itself is monitored by cameras, these too are wired to a separate secuirty hub. Again none of this is wireless or people would hack it.
The security hub is not linked to the general matrix in anyway. It is a standard wired system. It is linked to cameras on each floor and door locks on peoples aparments.

Ok my first step would be something like this;

Hand scaners are crap now and i doubt they get to much better in the future for one main reason - external contaminants. If you walk upto that thing with a can of spray glue and give it the once over it will be out of action untill the security goons get the tech crews out there to fix it. Untill that happens they are going to need to have a man on the door checking peoples ID's to let them into the building.

Now to call out for that security tech company they have to go wireless. You intercept the call figure out who does their maintinance and then turn up to do the repair work once you have "found" the appropriate id's. Install a short range wireless transmiter into the handscanner and all of a sudden you have a back door into their security network.


So far as a technomancer my entire contribution to the team is to pick them up in my van and drive them around.
From the answers so far no one seems to think this is odd, of course everything out be wired in its safer. Just seems there is no point in being a technomancer or hacker.

There is a good reason why everything wont be wired...going wired costs money, a lot of money. Compared to installing a wireless network going full wired will increase the install cost by *10. + 4* the time to install.

If your Gm is spending more money on the security system then what it is protecting then reroll man. He doesn't want technomancers/hackers just play something else, you will have more fun in the long run.

[LibraryOgre]

There is a good reason why everything wont be wired...going wired costs money, a lot of money. Compared to installing a wireless network going full wired will increase the install cost by *10. + 4* the time to install.


However, I will add that prior to the second crash, wired was the way to go. I see it as perfectly reasonable that a low-end place (C security means it's not top of the line) might be using a rehabed, pre-Second-Crash system. Heck, that might be part of why it's a C instead of lower... while the materials aren't that much, they also aren't vulnerable to someone with a week of computer classes and an off-the-shelf suite of hacking programs.

[Seerow]

There is a good reason why everything wont be wired...going wired costs money, a lot of money. Compared to installing a wireless network going full wired will increase the install cost by *10. + 4* the time to install.

If your Gm is spending more money on the security system then what it is protecting then reroll man. He doesn't want technomancers/hackers just play something else, you will have more fun in the long run.

Agreeing with this. If your GM is making everything and its mother wired, that's basically him saying playing a hacker of any type in his campaign is a total waste of time, and relegating your character to being useless for anything but legwork (and if everything is wired, then chances are even your legwork is likely to hit more dead ends as the data you need isn't available to be found).

[Kaun]

However, I will add that prior to the second crash, wired was the way to go. I see it as perfectly reasonable that a low-end place (C security means it's not top of the line) might be using a rehabed, pre-Second-Crash system. Heck, that might be part of why it's a C instead of lower... while the materials aren't that much, they also aren't vulnerable to someone with a week of computer classes and an off-the-shelf suite of hacking programs.

While this makes sense, cost wise from an instillation point retooling an existing system to suit a new installations requirements would often cost more then installing a low cost new wireless system.
This is mainly due to fault-finding and recommissioning, companies tend to over price for this kind of work due to it being a minefield of potential problems and extra costs. Where as cheap mas produced electronics mean that you will likley get a system cheap when buying it all at once and your installation costs will be less because the contractor can quote more accurately for the work.

[DodgerH2O]

Hah... my buddy runs an SR4 game and has the same but kinda opposite problem, his Hacker PC actually knows how these things should realistically (for a future-based RPG) run and so as a GM he has to figure out how to answer questions like "Do I see any accounts for the residents? What are their priveleges? Who's home? Can I see if it would set off a flag if I logged in and the system already says that the person I'm spoofing is sitting at home watching the trid?" without having ever figured out anything more than "Apartment building has a security system"

[The Random NPC]

I was going to ask how people were affording these high security apartments, but since that has been answered, why haven't they upgraded to wireless? Wired in a Shadowrun world is a pretty big inconvenience, and if they have enough problems with hackers that the cost of installing/maintaining a wired system is justified, they shouldn't be low price housing. Even if it started as a low cost apartment complex, the prices would creep up as the security gets called more often.