View Full Version : Last Breath of Belkar (and after)
GreenSerpent
2011-09-29, 11:09 AM
Well. First, sorry if I make any spelling mistakes, but it is diffcult to type on my laptop keyboard.
Second, to the main topic. We know that Belkar will draw his last breath before the end of the in-comic year. Or about 6-7 weeks of comic time. We also know that the OOTS hope to defeat Xykon before Belkar dies.
But here's the catch. Draw his last breath. What if he's active, but simply not breathing?
The Oracle says nothing about him being in the afterlife, just that he will draw his last breath ever. The IFCC have said nothing about his soul, despite his incredibly evil alignment (possibly sliding towards Neutral now). Could this mean the possibility of...
an Undead Belkar? Worst of all, a Vitageist Belkar (unlikely, but if he was, well, Xykon had better beware...)?
Thoughts? Opinions?
Mystic Muse
2011-09-29, 11:12 AM
Been brought up before, and doesn't address the "Not long for this world" part.
Been brought up before
Multiple times a month. For years.
Many Belkar fans are constantly looking for loopholes. I think a spectacular plot related death is far more likely.
Phishfood
2011-09-29, 11:57 AM
Pretty sure its Word Of God that Belkar is going away. Its in one of the books somewhere. No loopholes.
Mystic Muse
2011-09-29, 11:58 AM
Hey guys. I've got a crazy idea!
How about, instead of repeated speculation of the same theories over and over, we just watch and see what happens?:smallwink:
(Not directed solely at you GreenSerpent, just in general)
truemane
2011-09-29, 12:36 PM
Hey guys. I've got a crazy idea!
How about, instead of repeated speculation of the same theories over and over, we just watch and see what happens?:smallwink:
(Not directed solely at you GreenSerpent, just in general)
Have you ever actually been ON the Internet before? Might as well suggest that Star Trek and Star Wars both have their strengths. Or that it's impossible to decide the outcome of a fight of fictional characters from different universes.
CRAZY TALK.
:smalltongue:
Fitzclowningham
2011-09-29, 12:42 PM
I'm holding out for reincarnation. It would still be him, but it wouldn't 'be' him. Yeah.
Chess Tyrant
2011-09-29, 01:01 PM
What if he traveled to the Astral Plane? You don't need to eat or drink there, you might not need to breathe, either. And it'd address him being 'not long for this world.'
...Nah.
What if he traveled to the Astral Plane? You don't need to eat or drink there, you might not need to breathe, either. And it'd address him being 'not long for this world.'
If, and only if, he never returned to the Prime Material Plane.
...Nah.
Well, it likely wouldn't fulfill the primary reason most serious loophole-searchers seem to have for seriously searching for loopholes, i.e, he would still leave the story unless the remainder of the story was to take place on the Astral Plane.
raymundo
2011-09-29, 01:32 PM
Well, my theory is Belkar dies, full stop. But so does every one else, because the snarl unwraps reality and everything starts all over. Guess that would qualify as a happy ending for Belkar fans, since there would not be an OOTS without Belkar.
What ifShojo spirit replaced Belkar's spirit and reborn as NEW BELKAR just like Crysis 2 when Prophet merged with Alcatraz.
They call me Shojo!
factotum
2011-09-29, 02:49 PM
Hey guys. I've got a crazy idea!
I've got one even crazier! Maybe all the prophecies mean that Belkar *dies*, and we never see him in the strip, ever again? I mean, the evidence is pretty thin for this interpretation, but I think I can make it fly... :smalltongue:
jidasfire
2011-09-29, 03:09 PM
I think the reason many are seeking loopholes (and I'll admit I've considered them myself) is because announcing the unavoidable and permanent death of a main character of one's story well in advance of it happening is something seen so rarely that it just makes a lot of people wonder A. why the author would telegraph something that is traditionally done as a shock and B. what the twist is going to be, because authors don't as a rule spoil their own stories without doing something unexpected (unless they're Kurt Vonnegut).
Given that, I don't think Belkar's death is going to be as cut and dry as he simply dies in the course of typical adventuring, but I would also be rather surprised if he managed to get out of it, given just how specific the prophecy is. I have learned that Mr. Burlew usually manages to zig when everyone expects a wide variety of zags, and beyond the obvious, there's been almost nothing foreshadowing the death yet, so I have personally given up trying to work it out. I don't think it's bad that others do, although someone assuming Belkar's going to die every time he gets a papercut does get a little tiresome. I assume people do that for some sort of "just in case" bragging rights.
Even if there is no loophole and Belkar dies as prophecied, I find it very unlikely that he'll be out of the comic for good. His style of humor is positively necessary for the comic, and given how much the author seems to enjoy writing him, I doubt he could resist. Besides, as we saw with Roy, death is not the end, at least not for main characters.
raymundo
2011-09-29, 05:02 PM
Hmm.. Belkar might draw his last breath and be just removes out of existrnce by merging with Mr Scruffy to an awesome supernatural halfling-cat creature. That's why the oracle thought he'd be death and never walking the material plane again - because he'd be completely gone, yet not.
And people are looking for loopholes, because he is the most entertaining character of the Order (imho, that is).
super dark33
2011-09-29, 05:37 PM
you know waht i think?
Belkar will die, probably a piano will fall atop of him.
the next time we see him will be in the abyss:
:belkar: A PIANO? why do i always get the lame stuff while roy gets the best ones!
kenjigoku
2011-09-29, 06:18 PM
Well, my theory is Belkar dies, full stop. But so does every one else, because the snarl unwraps reality and everything starts all over. Guess that would qualify as a happy ending for Belkar fans, since there would not be an OOTS without Belkar.
Does not fit the happy ending solution for Elan.
MoonCat
2011-09-29, 06:20 PM
I've got one even crazier! Maybe all the prophecies mean that Belkar *dies*, and we never see him in the strip, ever again? I mean, the evidence is pretty thin for this interpretation, but I think I can make it fly... :smalltongue:
Also done multiple times a month. For years.
Usually as a 'witty' response to the other guys.
I totally agree though, Belkar. Is. Dying. Flat. Out.
ThePhantasm
2011-09-29, 06:26 PM
As much as I love Belkar, I want him to die just so these sorts of threads won't keep popping up... :smalltongue:
These sorts of threads will stop after he is dead, right?
Incom
2011-09-29, 06:36 PM
Belkar dies, but isn't out of the comic: it's not like he'd be the only character in the Lower Planes, you know. IFCC, Sabine and Qarr come to mind.
For a more lighthearted route: Belkar isn't long for this world.. or any world. After all, halflings are about as far from "long" as it gets.... you can groan now. The breathing part is easy to take care of.
These sorts of threads will stop after he is dead, right?
Oh, certainly they'll stop!
(You didn't ask if they would be replaced by "when and how is Belkar coming back?" threads, and I imagine you know the answer, too.)
rewinn
2011-09-29, 07:50 PM
...For a more lighthearted route: Belkar isn't long for this world.. or any world. After all, halflings are about as far from "long" as it gets.... you can groan now. The breathing part is easy to take care of.
...yep, cuz technically, Belkar doesn't breath.
It's a COMIC folks. NOBODY is actually inhaling. But only the Oracle Knows The Aweful Truth!
ZerglingOne
2011-09-29, 10:05 PM
Oh, certainly they'll stop!
Tell that to the people that still post "the right four words" threads T_T
I hope you're right Kish.
Edit: I expect "He's not quite dead yet" posts.
Snails
2011-09-29, 10:13 PM
Who doesn't look forward to the monthly "I know how Belkar will come back!" threads?
raymundo
2011-09-29, 11:34 PM
I wonder why you read and post in threads you have no interest in, that even seem to annoy you. I guess you actually care for Belkar's survival as much as everyone else in this thread, but you are unable to show it, except by posting how you dislike the discussion, therefore keeping it alive? :smallwink: Thanks anyway, I'm sure he appreciates.
Well, probably not, but who knows.
Off topic (well, more so):
Craptacular anthropomorphized stick version of a zergling avatar by: ...me
I thought it was quite good.
Sith_Happens
2011-09-30, 01:58 AM
Edit: I expect "He's not quite dead yet" posts.
Don't forget "only mostly dead.":smallwink:
hamishspence
2011-09-30, 04:39 AM
In one of the threads someone suggested something along the lines of
"Belkar will acquire (or rename) a weapon. It will be called "His Last Breath- Ever". And he will draw it, before the end of the year".
CoffeeIncluded
2011-09-30, 08:36 AM
I think that Belkar's going to die. As to how he'll die? My bet is that the Snarl kills him, possibly while he's protecting Mr. Scruffy.
:belkar: Hey! Theological blooper reel! I don't care if you're a quasi-divine thing of pure hatred, if you lay one appendage on my cat I swear I'll--
--Guh.
MoonCat
2011-09-30, 09:11 AM
I think that Belkar's going to die. As to how he'll die? My bet is that the Snarl kills him, possibly while he's protecting Mr. Scruffy.
:belkar: Hey! Theological blooper reel! I don't care if you're a quasi-divine thing of pure hatred, if you lay one appendage on my cat I swear I'll--
--Guh.
Are you fishing for more people asking to quote it?
'Cause I'm pretty sure I've seen this before for you.
CoffeeIncluded
2011-09-30, 09:19 AM
Are you fishing for more people asking to quote it?
'Cause I'm pretty sure I've seen this before for you.
No, I'm not fishing. I mentioned it on the other thread, but that's because it's why I really think will happen. And we both know that if this scenario were to happen, then Belkar would probably end up getting killed mid-threat.
CarpeGuitarrem
2011-09-30, 10:00 AM
...yep, cuz technically, Belkar doesn't breath.
It's a COMIC folks. NOBODY is actually inhaling. But only the Oracle Knows The Aweful Truth!
See panel 7. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0615.html) :smalltongue:
Quackenbush
2011-10-01, 09:54 AM
If we're thinking about Belkar getting killed by the snarl, I have an idea: The snarl will kill Belkar, and most of the other characters, and begin to slowly unmake reality. However, Durkon will manage to escape (temporarily) and will commune with the gods to warn them. The gods will basically run away, and gather their power until they can remake another world prison for the snarl, this time with no dangerous gates. Then they will remake everyone and everything that was destroyed. Including Belkar, who died, and this will be, technically, a different world. The prophecy works out, but Belkar comes back and elan gets his happy ending.
FujinAkari
2011-10-01, 07:24 PM
If we're thinking about Belkar getting killed by the snarl, I have an idea: The snarl will kill Belkar, and most of the other characters, and begin to slowly unmake reality. However, Durkon will manage to escape (temporarily) and will commune with the gods to warn them. The gods will basically run away, and gather their power until they can remake another world prison for the snarl, this time with no dangerous gates. Then they will remake everyone and everything that was destroyed. Including Belkar, who died, and this will be, technically, a different world. The prophecy works out, but Belkar comes back and elan gets his happy ending.
And the new Belkar won't have to breathe for some reason!
137beth
2011-10-01, 08:12 PM
And the new Belkar won't have to breathe for some reason!
Well duh, he'll be undead:smalltongue:
NENAD
2011-10-01, 10:15 PM
If we're thinking about Belkar getting killed by the snarl, I have an idea: The snarl will kill Belkar, and most of the other characters, and begin to slowly unmake reality. However, Durkon will manage to escape (temporarily) and will commune with the gods to warn them. The gods will basically run away, and gather their power until they can remake another world prison for the snarl, this time with no dangerous gates. Then they will remake everyone and everything that was destroyed. Including Belkar, who died, and this will be, technically, a different world. The prophecy works out, but Belkar comes back and elan gets his happy ending.
Why didn't the gods make the world without any gates in the first place?
Mystic Muse
2011-10-01, 10:56 PM
Why didn't the gods make the world without any gates in the first place?
The gates weren't made by the gods. The gates were made by the Order of the Scribble in an effort to keep the Snarl in its prison instead of escaping into reality and devouring world 2.0
The gates weren't made by the gods. The gates were made by the Order of the Scribble in an effort to keep the Snarl in its prison instead of escaping into reality and devouring world 2.0
For the start, it punctured to OOTS Verse world.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0275.html
NENAD
2011-10-02, 11:41 AM
The gates weren't made by the gods. The gates were made by the Order of the Scribble in an effort to keep the Snarl in its prison instead of escaping into reality and devouring world 2.0
Well, yes, but Quacken originally said that the gods could remake the world without any "dangerous gates." I assumed he was using the gates as a shorthand for the rifts in reality caused by the Snarl. But if the gods could make a world without those, why didn't they do so in the first place?
"Soon and his allies learned that the gods could remake the world without the rifts." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html)
That said, the scenario Quacken is proposing would be a cheap ripoff on a number of levels, and has no chance at all of coming true.
ReDragon
2011-10-02, 07:14 PM
...yep, cuz technically, Belkar doesn't breath.
It's a COMIC folks. NOBODY is actually inhaling. But only the Oracle Knows The Aweful Truth!
I actually like this idea.
H Birchgrove
2011-10-02, 07:59 PM
Oh, certainly they'll stop!
(You didn't ask if they would be replaced by "when and how is Belkar coming back?" threads, and I imagine you know the answer, too.)
This isn't the Marvel or DC Universe, dammit! :smallannoyed:
:smalltongue:
Zevox
2011-10-02, 08:05 PM
But if the gods could make a world without those, why didn't they do so in the first place?
They did. Re-read the Crayons of Time strips - the rifts appeared a long time after the remaking of the world, with no particular explanation given for why they began to appear. I'd guess we're meant to presume that the Snarl's prison weakened over time somehow.
Zevox
Half-orc Bard
2011-10-02, 09:41 PM
well maybe Belkar is going to become some form of undead or something, and OOTS go into the snaral so he's not in this world
Dr.Epic
2011-10-03, 06:03 AM
Wait, maybe it means Belkar will just change his name. Think about it. The Oracle did say "Belkar" and if he changes his name he won't be Belkar anymore.:smallwink:
Wait, maybe it means Belkar will just change his name. Think about it. The Oracle did say "Belkar" and if he changes his name he won't be Belkar anymore.:smallwink:
And all he has to do is stop being a halfling and stop being whatever the Oracle considers to be Roy's friend to...no wait, he'd still be clearly the one the Oracle was referring to in all those various ways.
Dr.Epic
2011-10-03, 06:55 PM
stop being whatever the Oracle considers to be Roy's friend
Roy and Belkar are friends?:smallconfused: What alternative universe do you live in?
leakingpen
2011-10-04, 12:37 PM
Tell that to the people that still post "the right four words" threads T_T
I hope you're right Kish.
Edit: I expect "He's not quite dead yet" posts.
He's getting better!
raymundo
2011-10-04, 09:04 PM
Roy and Belkar are friends?:smallconfused: What alternative universe do you live in?
Haven't you read up on Roy and Belkar shipping ?
MoonCat
2011-10-05, 09:22 AM
Haven't you read up on Roy and Belkar shipping ?
I hadn't, alothugh yesterday it did suddenly occurr to me to compare my character to "the offspring of Roy and Belkar, (who was then raised by Haley)"
raymundo
2011-10-05, 10:04 AM
I hadn't, alothugh yesterday it did suddenly occurr to me to compare my character to "the offspring of Roy and Belkar, (who was then raised by Haley)"
I wonder how thorough the transformation from the Belt of Gender Swapping is.. Or not
Holy_Knight
2011-10-05, 02:05 PM
Roy and Belkar are friends?:smallconfused: What alternative universe do you live in?
She said "whatever the Oracle considers to be Roy's friend", which is how the Oracle referred to Belkar here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html).
NENAD
2011-10-05, 03:53 PM
They did. Re-read the Crayons of Time strips - the rifts appeared a long time after the remaking of the world, with no particular explanation given for why they began to appear. I'd guess we're meant to presume that the Snarl's prison weakened over time somehow.
Zevox
This is splitting hairs. The implication of the post I first quoted was that the gods could make the prison such that there would be no rifts at any point in time, and if they could do that, why didn't they do it the first time?
This is splitting hairs. The implication of the post I first quoted was that the gods could make the prison such that there would be no rifts at any point in time, and if they could do that, why didn't they do it the first time?
Already responded to. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11954427&postcount=38)
Dr.Epic
2011-10-05, 04:49 PM
Haven't you read up on Roy and Belkar shipping ?
Nah, I've been distracted by the Aang/Zuko shipping. By the way, what does shipping mean? That word keeps appearing in this fanfic but I'm not sure what it means.
Mutant Sheep
2011-10-05, 04:53 PM
Nah, I've been distracted by the Aang/Zuko shipping. By the way, what does shipping mean? That word keeps appearing in this fanfic but I'm not sure what it means.
Shipping. Like, these two people are now in a relationship I made up. usually non-canon, shipping is considered fun by some, and disturbing by others. This has been Misleading Information On the Internet, brought to you by Mutant Sheep.
Whiffet
2011-10-05, 04:55 PM
Nah, I've been distracted by the Aang/Zuko shipping. By the way, what does shipping mean? That word keeps appearing in this fanfic but I'm not sure what it means.
It means two characters have started a successful business shipping packages. Obviously. :smalltongue:
Dr.Epic
2011-10-05, 04:57 PM
It means two characters have started a successful business shipping packages. Obviously. :smalltongue:
Why would Aang and Zuko start a shipping business?
Whiffet
2011-10-05, 05:15 PM
Why would Aang and Zuko start a shipping business?
There doesn't need to be a reason. It's quite common for events to not make sense and for characters to not act like themselves when a fanfic involves shipping.
Dr.Epic
2011-10-05, 05:38 PM
There doesn't need to be a reason. It's quite common for events to not make sense and for characters to not act like themselves when a fanfic involves shipping.
What are the odds there's a fanfic about Amy and Leela from Futurama opening a shipping company or shipping as you put it?
Zevox
2011-10-05, 10:06 PM
This is splitting hairs. The implication of the post I first quoted was that the gods could make the prison such that there would be no rifts at any point in time, and if they could do that, why didn't they do it the first time?
Because they made a mistake the first time, obviously. Unless you want to endorse some conspiracy theory that the gods deliberately wanted the Snarl's prison to weaken and threaten to release him or something.
Zevox
Jayabalard
2011-10-07, 05:37 PM
Hey guys. I've got a crazy idea!
How about, instead of repeated speculation of the same theories over and over, we just watch and see what happens?:smallwink:
(Not directed solely at you GreenSerpent, just in general)If you don't like speculation... I mean, it's not hard to identify most of those threads, so if they're not the sort of thing that floats your boat they're easy to steer clear of...
Jayabalard
2011-10-07, 05:41 PM
The gods will basically run away, and gather their power until they can remake another world prison for the snarl, this time with no dangerous gates.The prison they made didn't have any dangerous gates.
Nor is it reasonable to assume that they can create a prison that the snarl won't eventually weaken and break.
Then they will remake everyone and everything that was destroyed. Even more doubtful than the rest of your post. There's no reason to assume that they can do this.
FujinAkari
2011-10-07, 06:04 PM
Nor is it reasonable to assume that they can create a prison that the snarl won't eventually weaken and break.
Actually, it is entirely reasonable.
It is known that the Gods made the world as fast as possible since they didn't realize the Snarl wouldn't be able to understand what the converging threads meant, if they were to do it again and DIDN'T rush the job, it is entirely possible that they could make the world properly.
Start of Darkness
This is, actually, The Dark One's backup plan.
Nor is it reasonable to assume that they can create a prison that the snarl won't eventually weaken and break.
Except, of course, that it's not an assumption because Shojo said they could.
Even more doubtful than the rest of your post. There's no reason to assume that they can do this.
This, however, is true. I'll go further and say that it's really unlikely that Rich is going to pull off a cheap trick like, "The gods can and will effectively resurrect everyone whose soul has been devoured by the Snarl."
mrmcfatty
2011-10-08, 05:53 AM
Honestly even if Rich were to have the gods remake the world and all the people im not so sure that the gods would be able to remake every person as they are because i dont think they would be able to recreate the memories and such that every single person(human, dwarf, goblin, etc) has ever had.
they might be able to for clerics since they would know more about that, but knowing personal details about every single being seems a bit too much even for the gods. at least thats my view of it.
FujinAkari
2011-10-08, 07:42 AM
Honestly even if Rich were to have the gods remake the world and all the people im not so sure that the gods would be able to remake every person as they are because i dont think they would be able to recreate the memories and such that every single person(human, dwarf, goblin, etc) has ever had.
they might be able to for clerics since they would know more about that, but knowing personal details about every single being seems a bit too much even for the gods. at least thats my view of it.
Not to mention, if you make a world without the Gates, what do you do with the Order of the Scribble, Miko, Shojo, etc?
These people's lives are fundamentally different BECAUSE oft he gates, so do you recreate the world as of the moment Soon's wife was attacked, if so Belkar wouldn't be recreated at all and the OOTS would never exist... or do you recreate it as is and try and fudge the data... Shojo and Azure City are still around because Miko was never recruited because there was no Sapphire Guard and so- AAAAH!
mrmcfatty
2011-10-08, 08:03 AM
it would sorta be like a time paradox (if you event a time machine and go back in time and give it to yourself, you would never have built it in order to give it to yourself) egads! its a conundrum!
Klorox
2011-10-14, 08:49 AM
I think Belkar is gunna die, kaput, and that's the end of him. And it'll happen fairly soon.
The only "twist" I think that'll happen is he'll die in some redeeming fashion, either saving the party or Mr Scruffy. He does seem to be on a path towards "good" (yes, I know he's far from it).
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