Warg or Skinchanger base class in 3.5/PF?

[Tyger]

My newest game is likely to be a low/no powered game in the world so beautifully created by Mr. George R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series. We're looking for a way to re-create a warg / skinchanger as a base class (or maybe as a PrC if we need to), and my knowledge of the base classes is decent but I can't think of anything - save maybe a shapeshifter variant ranger, but then you aren't actually entering the animal's mind, you are actually changing your body...

Anyone have any advice on that?

[Urpriest]

Fiend of Possession, with the requirements suitably laxened?

[Sucrose]

My newest game is likely to be a low/no powered game in the world so beautifully created by Mr. George R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series. We're looking for a way to re-create a warg / skinchanger as a base class (or maybe as a PrC if we need to), and my knowledge of the base classes is decent but I can't think of anything - save maybe a shapeshifter variant ranger, but then you aren't actually entering the animal's mind, you are actually changing your body...

Anyone have any advice on that?

Perhaps reflavor the animal companion as representing such a bond? Wild empathy seems like it has some commonalities with the basic idea, and other implementations of it could be carried out, to a degree, with various Druid spells, like Charm Animal, Speak with Animals, and Animal Messenger. If you want to only have such powers, then maybe brew up a spontaneous version of the Druid, with a Sorcerer's spell progression, or something? (Alternatively, just go with a Sorcerer who takes spells from the Druid list, as it's been mentioned in the PHB that Sorcs only typically have spells from the Sorc/Wizard list, and can sometimes get other ones.)

[JackRackham]

My newest game is likely to be a low/no powered game in the world so beautifully created by Mr. George R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire series. We're looking for a way to re-create a warg / skinchanger as a base class (or maybe as a PrC if we need to), and my knowledge of the base classes is decent but I can't think of anything - save maybe a shapeshifter variant ranger, but then you aren't actually entering the animal's mind, you are actually changing your body...

Anyone have any advice on that?

I see no reason to use an existing set of class features. Recreate the abilities from scratch. Give the character a good will save (the rest are probably poor, but w/e), 1/2 or 3/4 BAB and allow them to possess one animal at 1st level with limited control. As they progress, they can do so at will (@ w/e level seems appropriate 3-5 probably). Allow no modifications to the animal, no HD progression. As the class progresses, the character can possess more powerful or difficult animals (ie the will save DC for rejecting possession increases) and at 3rd level (probably) allow them to possess 1+ their charisma modifier beasts (or wisdom, maybe). If either their body or their animal form takes damage, have them do a will save to maintain the possession. The animal would use it's own BAB, probably, not that of the character. Also, @ high levels, allow them to monitor (but not control) multiple beasts at once. All from the books, all abilities translate well enough IMO.

[JackRackham]

Also, the class would probably offer no proficiencies (or minimal) and minimal (2+INT) skill points.

[JackRackham]

Also, w/ some important modification (NOT being stuck to a tree, for example), greenseer could be an oh-so-hard to get into PrC for a Warg.

[mamothpriest]

I agree with making warg it's own class. I think that it would be better as a prc than it would be as a base class though. If you look at the characters from the series who have warg abilities, just about all of them IMO would have some class levels, be they rogue, fighter, ranger, or barbarian.

[Human Paragon 3]

I HIGHLY recommend using the e6 rules set as a jumping off point. It drastically powers down the setting.

After that, get rid of all the casting classes and start over from scratch.

One idea for a Warg/skinchanger might be to combine the familiar class feature and the animal companion class feature into one. Then give Wild Cohort as a bonus feat at a certain point, maybe level 6 if you are using E6.

A dominate animal / dominate person / magic jar effect could be of use as an SLA.

EDIT: To the above poster, I disagree. Bran Stark shouldn't have any other class levels, and Sixskins has been a skinchanger since he was a little kid, too. It seems most of the Wargs (who are primarily wargs) are wargs from a young age and concentrate on these abilities.

Jon Snow is a very weak Warg, and probably only has one level (or just a feat that gives him the warg-like abilities), so a multi-class is good for him, but if you think he's a level 6 or higher character, or that Bran is, I think you are mistaken.

[JackRackham]

I agree with making warg it's own class. I think that it would be better as a prc than it would be as a base class though. If you look at the characters from the series who have warg abilities, just about all of them IMO would have some class levels, be they rogue, fighter, ranger, or barbarian.
Actually, no. Bran is 10. He has no class levels. Also, in the later books, a character (varamir six-skins?). Has some inner monologue that explains the onset of powers asn almost always, in childhood. So it's like a socerer, an innate ability.

Anyway, I would limit a character to one beast to start, unless you're starting around level 10. Make the player spend a couple weeks breaking in each new animal, like in the books. Make it an adventure to get something really powerful (going beyond the wall, maybe?). Also, water dancer is just begging to be a swashbuckler-like base class. Black brother could be a nice ranger PrC, and the faceless men could be a roguish PrC.

[Cog]

Black brother could be a nice ranger PrC, and the faceless men could be a roguish PrC.
Ranger substitution levels instead, maybe. I'd have trouble seeing many of the black brothers as meeting any real consistent requirements beforehand.

[Human Paragon 3]

In what way does regular ranger not serve as night watch ranger?

[JackRackham]

Ranger substitution levels instead, maybe. I'd have trouble seeing many of the black brothers as meeting any real consistent requirements beforehand.
That's true enough. @ other guy, I guess twf doesn't really fit, the spells don't fit, the fluff would need to change some (darker, for sure). I think I might up the skill points and give them something like a fear aura or something to (partially) make up for the loss of spells. Idk, it'd need more though....

[Human Paragon 3]

They could just take archery style, since they're so gung ho about training with the bow.

[Tyger]

I found the PF Ranger Archetype Beastmaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo---ranger-archetypes/beastmaster) which seems to give most / all of the abilities. Seems like it would be pretty easy to modify this chassis. Move Improved Empathic Link to level one and make the level 6 ability the ability to actually possess and control the animal.

How would that pan out balance-wise? Sure, it means at level 6 the character could be a bear, but their body would be helpless and out of the situation. Seems like it would be pretty useful sometimes, and less so others. Thoughts?

[John Campbell]

You might be interested to know that there is (was) a Game of Thrones d20 (http://www.amazon.com/Game-Thrones-D20-Based-Open-Gaming/dp/1588469425) game. It's 3.0-based, and pretty decent, as d20 goes.

There's also a newer non-d20 Song of Ice and Fire game, which I've skimmed through the rules for, and which looks interesting, but I haven't actually played.

[Tyger]

You might be interested to know that there is (was) a Game of Thrones d20 (http://www.amazon.com/Game-Thrones-D20-Based-Open-Gaming/dp/1588469425) game. It's 3.0-based, and pretty decent, as d20 goes.

There's also a newer non-d20 Song of Ice and Fire game, which I've skimmed through the rules for, and which looks interesting, but I haven't actually played.

Yeah, we looked into that as an option, but while the D20 version is really, really good, our group likes our magic just a bit too much, so we're making some changes to the world - hopefully not too many though!