Favored Soul Handbook?

[sebsmith]

Where can I find the information one would ordinarily get in a favored soul handbook? My google fu has turned up no such page, so I'm curious. Advice on Prestige classes, which such a handbook might not cover, would also be useful.

Note: This is for a character I'm helping build for a newbie in the Gestalt game I'm about to start in which he wanted a divine caster. Tier one and six classes are banned, so cleric is out. His stats are 11, 13, 14, 16, 18, 18 and two free +2 which can't raise a stat above 18 before racial bonuses or be put in the same stat. The other side is probably going to be paladin of freedom, which would allow him to take DMM feats. His race is currently planned to be Aasimar.

[Jopustopin]

There is not much information out there. The feat "Versatile Spellcaster" is often recommended and the prestige class Malconvoker fits as well.

[Seerow]

Typically any such handbook just says "Play a cleric instead" or if they want to get fancy "Play a spontaneous variant cleric instead".

The split stat casting and the lack of both domains and turn undead is a pretty big turnoff. That what you get in its place are some class features that emulate spells you got several levels earlier, and weapon focus/spec... and you have a class that just can't really measure up to what's already in core.

[MeeposFire]

About the only thing you need to know are what the six best spells per spell level are and that is the extent of non-cleric optimization that you need.

[HunterOfJello]

Take the Spontaneous Healer feat and then never add any healing spells to your spell list. (Except for Heal, of course.)

[Curious]

You could try out the Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle), if you don't mind a bit of PF material.

[Curmudgeon]

About the only thing you need to know are what the six best spells per spell level are and that is the extent of non-cleric optimization that you need.
No, that's not all you need to know. A very big part of a Favored Soul's abilities comes from their deity's favored weapon, because the FS gets as class abilities a bunch of weapon-specific feats. It's good to know, for instance, that Kossuth and Zoser have spiked chain as their favored weapon. That gives a Favored Soul worshiping one of them the following feats:

Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain) (level 1)
Weapon Focus (spiked chain) (level 3)
Weapon Specialization (spiked chain) (level 12)
If you're going for a spiked chain, then it's helpful to look at what Steadfast Boots (Magic Item Compendium, pages 138-139) can do for you while you wield one.

It's also good to know that Knowstones (from Dragon # 333, page 93) work for divine spontaneous spellcasters as well as arcane; they're not just for Sorcerers. The FS can learn extra spells as long as they can afford the (spell level)2 x 1,000 gp price.

What else? Well, since your daily spell allotment is dictated by Charisma, and spell DCs are a function of Wisdom, you've got two spellcasting stats. It's good to know that an Aasimar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/planetouched.htm#aasimar) gets a racial bonus to both of these, and a Lesser Aasimar (see Player's Guide to Faerûn on page 191) is a Humanoid with no LA.

Favored Souls aren't proficient with heavy armor the way regular Clerics are. The Cloistered Cleric "fix" I came up with works for Favored Souls, too.

1) Start with the right clothing.

Scholar’s Outfit

Perfect for a scholar, this outfit includes a robe, a belt, a cap, soft shoes, and possibly a cloak.
2) Next, enhance the robe with an armor bonus (up to +8), as per Magic Item Compendium page 234. This works exactly the same as Bracers of Armor; the "Adding/Improving Common Item Effects" table allows armor bonuses in both Arms (bracers) and Body (robe) slots.

3) Next, you can add an armor enhancement bonus on top of the armor bonus with Magic Vestment:

You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level).

An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.
4) Finally, realize that your armor boost (up to +13) isn't from actual armor at all, and thus you can still wear a Monk's Belt to get (1 + WIS bonus) more AC!

[Jopustopin]

Dump the weapon abilities. Take the alternate class feature in PHB II. IF you feel strongly that you want to use some particular weapon waste a feat on it.

[TurtleKing]

I cast Detect Cheese and it was stinky. I approve.

Edit: That varient has any beneficial spell cast on a party member grants temp hp. So with that you don't need to heal much.

[Curmudgeon]

Dump the weapon abilities. Take the alternate class feature in PHB II. IF you feel strongly that you want to use some particular weapon waste a feat on it.
If you take the Deity's Favor ACF, you still retain the weapon proficiency. Deity's Favor doesn't kick in until level 3, and is only good for one character (which could be the FS) until level 12.

[deuxhero]

For Favor Soul, remember you don't get Know: Religion.

[TurtleKing]

Probably a thematic reason why. Favored Souls didn't spend years studing and praying like a cleric. Favored Souls it comes natural just like a Sorcerer. So it is the time spent studing that adds in Know: Religion. Wouldn/t suprised if a Favored Soul could take the Heritage feats like a Sorcerer. Both get their power for some sort of ancestry. For a Favored Soul it is usually with some outsider as the source. PLus doesn't have to be holy as they can be unholy as well. So what is your opinion on Favored Soul getting Sorcerer Heritage feats as well?

[Jopustopin]

According to a web enhancement they can start with knowledge religion instead of knowledge arcana. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x

[deuxhero]

^^ Too bad Sorcs get Know: Arcana (just like FS) and Know: Religion covers evil religions.

[nedz]

According to a web enhancement they can start with knowledge religion instead of knowledge arcana. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the Designers Notes here, the concept of a character who was chosen by some random deity, without the character's knowledge, does have RP appeal.
They are a reasonable choice for PrC entry if you can save a feat eg Stormlord; but whilst spontaneous divine casters are good for tanking in a non DMM game: Spontaneous Cleric is a better option.
What I found strange is that they often cannot learn spells which are unique to domains granted by their patron: this seems an obvious oversight.

[Grim Reader]

There is a trick you can do with the Favored Soul...If you play a race with an inborn magical trick (such as the Aasimars Light) you can easily pick up the rest of the qualifications for Sand Shaper. That is a delicious boost in spells known.

A good PrC is Knight of the Raven. Mixing Sand Shaper and Knight of the Raven is not recommended, though, both lose you a level of casting.

[dextercorvia]

Aeshkrau Illumians offer Strength for bonus spells, so that reduces your need for Cha. If you were playing them using the Spiked Chain advice from Curmudgeon, that could come in handy.

[Curmudgeon]

There is a trick you can do with the Favored Soul...If you play a race with an inborn magical trick (such as the Aasimars Light) you can easily pick up the rest of the qualifications for Sand Shaper.
This trick is dependent on finding a generous DM who ignores some of the rules, on two points.
Sand Shaper requires
Spells or Spell-Like Abilities: Arcane caster level 5th. However, Aasimars get
Daylight (Sp): An aasimar can use daylight once per day as a 1st-level caster or a caster of his class levels, whichever is higher. There's no mention of Daylight granting an arcane caster level, and since it's on the spell lists of both arcane and divine classes it isn't necessarily of either type.
.
Desert Insight says:
These spells become options for you when you gain access to the appropriate spell level. Since Aasimar Favored Souls have just a single spell-like ability (no type specified), no arcane spellcasting class levels, and thus can never take advantage of "+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class", the Sand Shaper spells never become options (become known).

[Grim Reader]

1) Actually, all racial sp abilities default to arcane.

2) On Desert Insight, you seem to be implying that the Desert Insigth progression is somehow tied to the way you qualify for the class. This is not so. Desert Insight adds the spells known to any and all arcane spell casting classes you have, and all spontaneous casting lists (Thats how Versatile Spellcaster/Desert Insight/ UM cheese works)

For example, if an Ultimate Magus dips 1 level of Sand Shaper, Desert Insight will add spells known to both his spontaneous casting class and his prepared one. As further Ultimate Magus levels lets him cast higher level spells, Desert Insight will keep adding spells known.

No-one ever takes more than one level of Sand Shaper, its just dipped into for Desert Insight (Although I once made a theoretical build that could get the Ressurection ability and 9th level spells)

[Curmudgeon]

1) Actually, all racial sp abilities default to arcane.
Can you cite a RAW source for that? The treatment of special abilities in Dungeon Master's Guide (page 289) doesn't say that, nor does the Monster Manual (page 315) say anything about Spell-Like abilities being arcane. I also checked Rules Compendium (page 118). Perhaps you're thinking of a house rule.

2) On Desert Insight, you seem to be implying that the Desert Insigth progression is somehow tied to the way you qualify for the class. No, I'm not implying that. I simply noted that Desert Insight only grants access to those spells when you progress in (total) arcane spell levels, which could be a combination of Sand Shaper and other levels.
These spells become options for you when you gain access to the appropriate spell level.

No-one ever takes more than one level of Sand Shaper, its just dipped into for Desert Insight This works if you already have sufficient arcane spellcasting access. With no arcane spellcasting, Desert Insight alone gives you no new spell options.

[Cog]

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the Designers Notes here, the concept of a character who was chosen by some random deity, without the character's knowledge, does have RP appeal.
Then, uh, just don't put any ranks in the skill? That they've added it to the class list doesn't mean you have to use it.

[Grim Reader]

Can you cite a RAW source for that? The treatment of special abilities in Dungeon Master's Guide (page 289) doesn't say that, nor does the Monster Manual (page 315) say anything about Spell-Like abilities being arcane. I also checked Rules Compendium (page 118). Perhaps you're thinking of a house rule.

I'm pretty sure I've seen it in print, but I just moved, and can't quite locate all my books. The basic rule is:

"Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster’s spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order." which is from the SRD.

Skip Williams in the "Rules of the Game: All about Spell-like Abillities" restates this as applying to all creatures spell-like abilities.

Now like I said, I'm pretty sure Ive seen it in print, and I'm pretty sure it was before Complete Arcane, which on page 71 is already going on about the only reason spell-like abilities don't have a chance of arcane spell failiure is because they don't have somatic components. (Unlike invocations, the only difference between the two.)

Note that if a spell-like ability needs a somatic component, it is subject to arcane spell failiure.


No, I'm not implying that. I simply noted that Desert Insight only grants access to those spells when you progress in (total) arcane spell levels, which could be a combination of Sand Shaper and other levels.
This works if you already have sufficient arcane spellcasting access. With no arcane spellcasting, Desert Insight alone gives you no new spell options.
Desert Insight never mentions arcane. In fact, it even goes as far as to note that it adds spells known to all spontaneous casters.

[NNescio]

Probably a thematic reason why. Favored Souls didn't spend years studing and praying like a cleric. Favored Souls it comes natural just like a Sorcerer. So it is the time spent studing that adds in Know: Religion. Wouldn/t suprised if a Favored Soul could take the Heritage feats like a Sorcerer. Both get their power for some sort of ancestry. For a Favored Soul it is usually with some outsider as the source. PLus doesn't have to be holy as they can be unholy as well. So what is your opinion on Favored Soul getting Sorcerer Heritage feats as well?

But Sorcerers get Knowledge: Arcana.

[gallagher]

how tied is this character to FS?

because i would suggest divine bard.

then, if he picks up the game quickly, i would see if he is comfortable switching his paladin levels for crusader.

and also, aasimar or lesser aasimar?

[Curmudgeon]

"Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster’s spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order." which is from the SRD.
That's originally from page 315 of Monster Manual. The presumption only refers to the behavior ("work differently") of SLAs; it's got nothing to say about their type.

Note that if a spell-like ability needs a somatic component, it is subject to arcane spell failiure. I don't know where you're getting that from, either. From that same Monster Manual page:

Spell-Like: Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, material, focus, or XP components).

[Grim Reader]

Its from Complete Arcane, page 71. "The only difference between Invocations and other spell-like abilities is that Invocations require somatic gestures and are therefore subject to arcane spell failiure"

[Curmudgeon]

Its from Complete Arcane, page 71. "The only difference between Invocations and other spell-like abilities is that Invocations require somatic gestures and are therefore subject to arcane spell failiure"
I don't see how the specific rules for Warlocks have any bearing on this issue. Rules for Warlock invocation SLAs don't apply generally. The Warlock is an arcane class (note their presence in the Classes chapter of Complete Arcane :smallwink:). You can't apply specific rules ("I'm a person. I have brown hair."/"Warlock invocation SLAs are arcane.") generally ("All persons have brown hair."/"All SLAs are arcane.").

[nedz]

I'm not sure I necessarily agree with the Designers Notes here, the concept of a character who was chosen by some random deity, without the character's knowledge, does have RP appeal.
...
Then, uh, just don't put any ranks in the skill? That they've added it to the class list doesn't mean you have to use it.

Did you read the text ?
It says "As every favoured soul worships a god..."
Thats the assumption I was questioning.

[sebsmith]

how tied is this character to FS?

because i would suggest divine bard.

then, if he picks up the game quickly, i would see if he is comfortable switching his paladin levels for crusader.

and also, aasimar or lesser aasimar?What does divine bard offer that's worth 7th, 8th, and 9th level spells? What does crusader offer that's worth access to DMM?

For others, given that LA buyoff rules are in effect and we are starting at 6th, the plan is Aasimar, not lesser Aasimar; however, if somebody has a good reason to switch I'd consider it.

In case anybody missed it, I mentioned that cleric is banned in the op. Also, given the ability scores, I don't think the character needs to care about MAD very much.

[Grim Reader]

I don't see how the specific rules for Warlocks have any bearing on this issue. Rules for Warlock invocation SLAs don't apply generally. The Warlock is an arcane class (note their presence in the Classes chapter of Complete Arcane :smallwink:). You can't apply specific rules ("I'm a person. I have brown hair."/"Warlock invocation SLAs are arcane.") generally ("All persons have brown hair."/"All SLAs are arcane.").

Itdoes not become a specific rule for Warlocks because it is in the Warlock section. If that was the case, familiar rules would only apply to Sorcerer familiars. It is a rule for Invocations and how they work, clearing up how and why they differ from other spell-like abilities. It states that they are spell-like abilities with somatic components, and therefore have arcane spell failiure.

"The only difference between Invocations and other spell-like abilities is that Invocations require somatic gestures and are therefore subject to arcane spell failiure"

Note how it points out the difference between Invocations and general spell-like abilities, and specifies why Invocations have arcane spell failiure: Not because they differ by being arcane, but because they differ by having somatic components.
Dragonfire Adept Invocations also have arcane spell failiure.

[Curmudgeon]

For others, given that LA buyoff rules are in effect and we are starting at 6th, the plan is Aasimar, not lesser Aasimar; however, if somebody has a good reason to switch I'd consider it.
Well, you'll be starting 3,000 XP behind the others, and will stay there for a while; that's fairly annoying if the others are at the floor of level 6 and you're only 40% of the way there from level 5. Also, if you ever want to benefit from Enlarge Person to get 20' radius control with that spiked chain, being Outsider will suck greatly for you. And getting below -10 HP as a Humanoid is fixable with level 4-5 spells; with an Outsider it's time to generate a new character if you can't pony up for level 7-9 spells. I think those are three good reasons.

[NNescio]

Well, you'll be starting 3,000 XP behind the others, and will stay there for a while; that's fairly annoying if the others are at the floor of level 6 and you're only 40% of the way there from level 5. Also, if you ever want to benefit from Enlarge Person to get 20' radius control with that spiked chain, being Outsider will suck greatly for you. And getting below -10 HP as a Humanoid is fixable with level 4-5 spells; with an Outsider it's time to generate a new character if you can't pony up for level 7-9 spells. I think those are three good reasons.

Aasimars have the (Native) subtype.

[Curmudgeon]

Aasimars have the (Native) subtype.
Right you are; I missed that. OK, make that two good reasons instead of three. :smallredface:

Thanks for the correction.

[Psyren]

Favored Souls largely work better as gishes. The biggest reason for this is that the spells they need to function as pure casters often have save DCs, and trying to maximize these makes them MAD. (They get spell access and bonus spells from Cha, but get save DCs from Wis.) Having all good saves and a martial (or exotic) weapon from their deity helps too.

My personal favorite use for them is to turn them into super-paladins - a gish build with most of the relevant paladin abilities but much more powerful spells. This usually involves Fist of Raziel (BoED) for various flavors of smite, Sacred Exorcist to get into Prestige Paladin, or possibly a paladin 2 dip.

[Cog]

I like Knight of the Raven (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft) for getting turning on a Favored Soul. Earlier entry, though you get turn at about the same ECL, and the class is better suited to a martial character. Refluffing the raven to a hawk might work for an Egyptian-themed FS of Zoser build; I've got one of those sitting on a back burner.

[Psyren]

I like KotR too, but the fluff/setting requirements are tricky, and you lose another caster level. If it's allowed though, it's a nice way to get into prestige paladin.

[gallagher]

What does divine bard offer that's worth 7th, 8th, and 9th level spells? What does crusader offer that's worth access to DMM?

For others, given that LA buyoff rules are in effect and we are starting at 6th, the plan is Aasimar, not lesser Aasimar; however, if somebody has a good reason to switch I'd consider it.

In case anybody missed it, I mentioned that cleric is banned in the op. Also, given the ability scores, I don't think the character needs to care about MAD very much.

for the divine bard: you guys are starting at 6th level no? what sort of guarantee do you have that you will get to 9th level spells? bards have a lot of class features, skill points, and all that jazz that make them still a viable character from 1-20

for crusader over paladin: depends on what DMM you plan on using, but maneuvers are awesome, stances are great, and the crusader is just flat out better than a paladin. plus the bardsader is already a well known powerful build.

[Psyren]

The benefit to classes that can get 9ths isn't just realized at high-level play - such classes by necessity also have faster spell acquisition than classes that top out earlier. So while a Favored Soul may not get 9ths until level 18, he can get 5ths at level 10 - whereas a Divine Bard must wait until level 13 for the same level of spells.

[hex0]

Favored souls should have Know. Religion and Dragon Shamans should have Know. Arcana. End of discussion!

But as a favored soul, you should take pRcs that hand out domains. Diveine oracle, contemplative, etc.

Is this for gestalt?

[Psyren]

Favored souls should have Know. Religion and Dragon Shamans should have Know. Arcana. End of discussion!

WotC realized this (a bit late (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x), but still :smalltongue:)

I have no idea why they have Arcana though.

[nedz]

...
But as a favored soul, you should take pRcs that hand out domains. Diveine oracle, contemplative, etc.

Unfortunately more domains don't add to your spells known - unlike a spontaneous cleric say - you just get the powers and the ability to learn the spells from the list.

[Mystral]

Try to get your DM to let you play a seraph instead. That class fixes most of the issues of the favoured soul and makes it usable.

http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate3/page/index.php?id=1630

[Zaq]

Try to get your DM to let you play a seraph instead. That class fixes most of the issues of the favoured soul and makes it usable.

http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate3/page/index.php?id=1630

Favored Soul is one of the strongest classes in the game (DEFINITELY in the top ten, probably in the top eight or so). Just because it has pale skin from standing in the Cleric's shadow doesn't mean it's "unplayable." Seriously, it's a 9th level caster with more spells known than the Sorcerer and nearly full access to one of the Big Three lists. So what if it doesn't get domains? So what if it needs two stats? It's still likely to be one of the strongest and most valuable members of the party, unless everyone else is a Druid/Artificer/etc. Spells are just that good, and the Favored Soul gets a ton of 'em.

Really. "Makes it playable." Just how much do you need?

[Psyren]

If you want "spontaneous cleric" without Favored Soul but don't want 3rd party, use the Mystic from Dragonlance Campaign Setting. They have the entire cleric list, are Cha-SAD, and even get a domain.

[nedz]

Favoured Soul is Tier 2.
So is the Spontaneous Cleric from UA - which you can also find in the SRD.

[hex0]

I would suggest going into a Sacred Exorcist/Prestige Paladin combo asap.

[sebsmith]

Unfortunately more domains don't add to your spells known - unlike a spontaneous cleric say - you just get the powers and the ability to learn the spells from the list.Yeah, I just found that again while looking though my books. Is there any good way to add spells know to a Favored Soul?

[deuxhero]

Try to get your DM to let you play a seraph instead. That class fixes most of the issues of the favoured soul and makes it usable.

http://www.dnd-gate.de/gate3/page/index.php?id=1630

Where is the no-save die of spontaneous combustion gaze attack?

Pft, some Seraph.

[Jopustopin]

Favored souls should have Know. Religion and Dragon Shamans should have Know. Arcana. End of discussion!

But as a favored soul, you should take pRcs that hand out domains. Diveine oracle, contemplative, etc.

Is this for gestalt?

Favored souls do have knowledge religion (check the web enhancement). Dragon Shamans do have Knowledge Arcana (check the errata). End of Discussion!

[hex0]

Favored souls do have knowledge religion (check the web enhancement). Dragon Shamans do have Knowledge Arcana (check the errata). End of Discussion!

Double end of discussion! Woo!

You may want to snag a bonus domain or too that has nice spells not on the cleric list so you can learn them. Like Magic.

[Psyren]

Double end of discussion! Woo!

You may want to snag a bonus domain or too that has nice spells not on the cleric list so you can learn them. Like Magic.

Note that while FS can indeed learn domain spells, doing so still uses up their existing spells known. So rather than just gaining domain spells, you're trading away cleric spells for the privilege.

[dextercorvia]

Yeah, I just found that again while looking though my books. Is there any good way to add spells know to a Favored Soul?

Take Apprentice Spellcaster + Mother Cyst. Use Apprentice Spellcaster to trade away the Mother Cyst spells. This gets you 11 new spells known -- 2 1st and 2nd, 1 3rd - 9th.

[hex0]

Note that while FS can indeed learn domain spells, doing so still uses up their existing spells known. So rather than just gaining domain spells, you're trading away cleric spells for the privilege.

Which is why I mentioned that it is worth trading your potential cleric spells for Domain Spells. Magic, Protection and War have a lot of spells that are not on the Cleric list. Contemplative dip...