[3.5] Using another PC as a familiar

[Mantarni]

So an illumian warmage/rainbow servant and a half celestial lizardman weapon master walk into a bar...

I'm in a game thats based more on playing around with the system mechanics than character roleplaying. I'm doing the warsnake thing and going for as many useful domains as possible, more support than offense. I took obtain familiar (a flaw feat), and next feat am probably going to take that one celestial familiar feat and was going to get a coure eladrin.

Then as I was listing why I wanted a familiar, like how you can buff them with personal spells and stuff, we started wondering if I could have the (half celestial template) lizardman PC as my familiar instead. He was actually the one who suggested it. I mean, my warsnake is half the size of it and already practically uses it as a mount to get around and avoid damage. Having it be able to deliver touch spells with its natural attacks...

I've looked around and there is nothing saying you can't do it, but nothing saying you can either. I don't think they even thought of it, google failed me on this one.

[tyckspoon]

I've looked around and there is nothing saying you can't do it, but nothing saying you can either. I don't think they even thought of it, google failed me on this one.

The reason nothing says you can't do it is because getting a Familiar is already a restricted ability. You can get anything that explicitly says you can take it as a Familiar, and nothing outside that list; other restricting rules are unnecessary. There's no ability I know of that lets you designate any arbitrary creature as a Familiar.

[Mantarni]

The Improved Familiar feat explicitly says that the examples are arbitrary, and you can take anything similar.

[Anarchy_Kanya]

Gods can designate whatever they like as their familiars. It's a salient ability or something.

[tyckspoon]

The Improved Familiar feat explicitly says that the examples are arbitrary, and you can take anything similar.

You are at best in "Ask your DM" territory there. I will note that the default Improved Familiar table includes things that are no larger than Small and at most CR 3; a class-leveled Lizardman PC is highly dissimilar, being of greater size and probably CR 10+, so even by those suggested guides would not be available via Improved Familiar. Many of the other familiar-expanding feats (Dragon Familiar, Celestial Familiar) don't even have 'you might be able to choose other things' language, you just get the shortlist of whatever they allow.

[Coidzor]

Muckdwellers are a valid, Tiny-sized, LA+0 player race. They're eligible as Improved Familiars.

So, PaO is your friend here. Then you can PaO 'em back after doing the ritual.

[lorddrake]

Sometimes, reading this forum I just think PaO is the answer to all questions...

Since I'm a DM I'd surely say a big NO here (even if it was clearly RAW)...

[Autopsibiofeeder]

Well, if one would allow such a thing through improved familiar you run into 'required caster level' problems. For example, a lvl 9 character having a lvl 3 PC as familiar could be in line of the feat (don't have it in front of me, so don't take the numbers too serious). I assume that your levels are somewhat equal? In that case it is, next to that it is quite likely not intended, also just not possible.

[tyckspoon]

Sometimes, reading this forum I just think PaO is the answer to all questions...


Well, it is. And if PaO can't do it (usually by transferring in the 15HD cap from Polymorph, although it's not clear if they meant it to be there or not- PaO is a messy, messy spell) then Shapechange or Gate can. It's absolutely not a coincidence that these spells are also the most common targets for houserules and/or banning.

[Coidzor]

Sometimes, reading this forum I just think PaO is the answer to all questions...

That would be because they're working with pre-existing characters and can't tailor-build a character from scratch for this.

Polymorph Any Object, it gets the job done.


Well, if one would allow such a thing through improved familiar you run into 'required caster level' problems. For example, a lvl 9 character having a lvl 3 PC as familiar could be in line of the feat (don't have it in front of me, so don't take the numbers too serious). I assume that your levels are somewhat equal? In that case it is, next to that it is quite likely not intended, also just not possible.

Of course it's not intended. On the other hand, if we only played the game as it was intended, wizards and sorcerers wouldn't use more than the bad blasting spells, clerics wouldn't ever do anything but cast healing spells, and we'd still have problems with people not understanding that the Rogue class is not free license to backstab the party at any and every opportunity that presents itself or can be engineered.

As to whether or not it's possible, the feat never goes into whether or not they can have class levels, much less into the details of some kind of minimum ECL difference between master and familiar.

[gkathellar]

Of course, if you were feeling really awful, you would have two spellcasters become each other's familiars.

On the one hand, this would lead to an infinite Max HP reduction loop that would split the universe in half. On the other hand, theoretical optimization is fun and silly.