vauge idea for a vertical dungeon

[awa]

so i was playing a flash game when i got the idea wouldn't it be an interesting change of pace to have a encounter location that was all about going up basically i would take our map grid and tell the players these lines don't represent walls they represent outcropping you can stand on. the party can then climb or jump to get to the higher ledges with monsters attacking them from ledges higher up. i picture it being a cliff face.

so what do people think good idea terrible idea are their some huge implementation factor im over looking

[Knaight]

You mean, like a topographical map? Done it, it works, it can be fun, mapping it takes some getting used to.

[awa]

no i mean take a regular grid map but the walls drawn on it represent out outcroppings an the bottom of the map is lower then the top of the map

[erikun]

The main problem I see is low-strength characters trying to get about. That 8 STR wizard isn't guaranteed to jump over his own feet without a Fly spell, and will be less inclined to attempt the higher the party goes.

This means that either most/all characters will have flight (rendering most of the dungeon pointless) or that it will take a lengthy process of rope-climb-haul up to get from room to room.

It's an interesting idea, at least.

[Anxe]

I did it with a cliff once. It was interesting, but I wouldn't repeat it. I imagine you'll have the same experience. I had harpies, some griffons, and a roc. The goal was to reach a Sword of the Wind at the top that prevented magical flight unless someone was holding it.

[Ravens_cry]

While an intriguing idea, I see this best working for short sections as part of larger dungeon. As others have pointed out, this really only caters to a very small range of characters. It could work as part of a mine or cave system that also includes horizontal sections, but a whole encounter as cliff face, unless the characters were specifically designed to play it, doesn't sound fun for most characters.

[Knaight]

While an intriguing idea, I see this best working for short sections as part of larger dungeon. As others have pointed out, this really only caters to a very small range of characters. It could work as part of a mine or cave system that also includes horizontal sections, but a whole encounter as cliff face, unless the characters were specifically designed to play it, doesn't sound fun for most characters.

That depends entirely on the system. In most editions of D&D, that is very true. However, say you are looking at a space opera game, where powered armor and jet jumps are the norm. Suddenly, things get a lot more interesting, particularly as higher ground is a good way to not be in grenade range, and one can take cover with a ledge beneath them from those below them, while most characters can't do the same to those above them - though there is the matter of those almost directly above them, and the other matter of high tech grappling hooks.

[Ravens_cry]

That depends entirely on the system. In most editions of D&D, that is very true. However, say you are looking at a space opera game, where powered armor and jet jumps are the norm. Suddenly, things get a lot more interesting, particularly as higher ground is a good way to not be in grenade range, and one can take cover with a ledge beneath them from those below them, while most characters can't do the same to those above them - though there is the matter of those almost directly above them, and the other matter of high tech grappling hooks.
Considering we are using the word dungeon, I think D&D or other fantasy is pretty much assumed. Others have even gone so far as to mention specific spells and classes.
So yes, if you step outside definite genre and system, it becomes more feasible. Some it becomes even less so, like a modern day, or close to it, setting and system with minimal magic and advanced technology.

[Yhynens]

I played in a fight like this in Exalted and it's one of the most memorable fights I've ever done, in a game that's basically designed around fights being memorable. As the only one without some way to climb I basically rode around on the Lunar and shot arrows. One guy just jumped from enemy to enemy as he killed them in the air.
But, you know, that's pretty par for the course in Exalted.

If it were a DND or something at a lower power level than Exalted, I'd recommend a lot of ladders or rope bridges going up, but they're built in a zig-zaggy fashion (think Donkey Kong,) so the people with lots of jump or climb could take the direct route during encounters. They still get to benefit from it and it also places them in the front lines more, which is where they'd want to be, and your wizards can still get up somehow. With bridges and ladders being the rule rather than the exception, you can also just not worry so much about most of their travelling while they're out of battle. Also you could have them get some climbing mounts, pretty sure there's some in some monster manual. If you're into props and minis, you could stick a laminated grid paper to a cork board and put it up vertical, and then glue some other grid paper to cardboard and stick it into the cork board with needles, to make actual outcroppings, which could be REALLY cool, since the outcroppings could be different shapes. Some would be two tiles wide, but others would be really thin.
Hopefully something out of that helps!

[Totally Guy]

I did this once.

Here's the set up. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5973151&postcount=1)

It went quite well in play.

We'd just done a finale for the D&D campaign I was running. I used this dungeon to link into a new campaign for those characters.

[awa]

having some areas be particularly easy to climb is a good idea the game isnt straight dnd so being being able to climb and jump a little is assumed

[The Reverend]

I was part of a 3.5 campaign with minis the dm did something like this for 3 sessions or so. He mixed stairs, rooms that the entrances were on the floor and exited on or near the ceiling, some cliff face stuff between two sides of a bottomless crevasse, platform jumping, basically we came in the bottom of the dungeon and had to go to the top.

He mapped it out using a variety of techniques, graph paper, printed maps, and my favorite was legos stuck thru cardboard for our minis to stand on. It was awesome.

[Kol Korran]

@ Totally Guy: that looks bloody amazing! i don't have time and energy (or more correctyl, i don't make that time) to go to all of that trouble, but it looks amazing! kudos to you!

on topic: i Eberron there are two places that do similar things. thefirst is of course Sharn, the City of towers. the book if i recall encourages some "tower climbing, by the hair of your teeth" scenes. i think it can work well.

the other is in stormhome, home of house of Storm. in "Explorer's guide to Eberron" a competition is described, of climbing up the air ships dociking tower without using flight spells. the competitiors are allowed to play traps and taack each other though, so the race is supposed to be... interesting.

on most "un civilized" cases, you will have to either make flight impossible, or difficult at least. which means this probably doesn't have much of a repetitive value unfortunately.

another thing that you must contend in with mapping on paper, is 3D. true, the character can move up and down, but what if they want to move "around"? (as in a tower, or spire, or the like)

hope this helps,
Kol.

[GungHo]

It's doable, but depending on your mapping/drafting skills, it can be hard to represent. It's easier to draw it vertically (i.e. "long" room) where the top of the page is the top of the dungeon and with some "flowchart"-style terminators to show "breakout" rooms for caves/alcoves. This is what my co-DM usually does. It can get a little confusing, however, if more than one character is occupying the same "area". You may have to use several pages to make it look "right". The characters basically look like they're all standing "sideways" in perspective with the map.

What I do is that I draw a series of "boxes" with each box representing roughly a story in height. You'll have to sequentially number each box and you may still have to show flowchart terminators to make some things clear. This way it's clear where everyone is "spatially" even when multiple people are on the same tier. However, it can get confusing when there is action going on multiple "tiers".

It can be a lot of fun... especially when you're fighting a mix of enemies who do and do not take advantage of the vertical layout. Flinging scores of goblins off ledges can be lots of fun. However, a beholder is going to eat the party alive if they aren't thinking. It's also led to a pretty spectacular screw up where a fighter had a severe brainfart and bull rushed a minotaur and himself right off the ledge because he didn't pay attention to spacing.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

This makes me want to write an "8 Bit RPG" that uses a sidescrolling battlegrid such as the above.

[TheCountAlucard]

Actually have a fun location for a potential fight in my group's Exalted game in mind... the PCs have come across a mile-high glacier - a battle up the side of it could definitely be interesting, especially if Mount Mostath gets involved. :smallamused:

[Andreaz]

Actually have a fun location for a potential fight in my group's Exalted game in mind... the PCs have come across a mile-high glacier - a battle up the side of it could definitely be interesting, especially if Mount Mostath gets involved. :smallamused:

My exalted group has done one of those vertical fights recently. Every now and then they had to jump to other support points in order to keep fighting, because their animas kept breaking the ground or the enemies' attacks were that vicious. Lots of hopping around, clever use of leverage and an eventual Robot-Hurling game ensued. Fun stuff.
Same as when they had a chase-battle against 5 other essence users (most badass scourge half-caste ever) as they tried to outrun the erupting volcano, trading punches, shots and trips as well as avoiding rubble, the occasional flying molten rock and the like.

I hate white room fights.

[Another_Poet]

I did the side-view once for a single encounter. The party was in a dwarven city with tall (4 - 6 story) buildings. They needed to get to the top of a building where their NPC allies had barricaded themselves. Swarms of enemies were besieging the building.

There were outside staircases (like fire escapes) the PCs could use, moving at half speed to ascend or normal speed to descend. More agile or magicky PCs had better routes available.

The players seemed to adjust to the side-view easily, with few questions and no confusion. They were also kind enough to suspend disbelief (why does a real 3D world have such few places they can go, like Mario Bros? What's on the other side of the building? Are there internal staircases? etc).

I wouldn't use it often because of the disbelief issue. But that said, it was an interesting change for one fight.