Alchemist Gunslinger (PF)

[panaikhan]

OK, so, I'm currently playing a Gnome Alchemist obsessed with fire.
We've just hit L5, and things are going pretty well.
I had put together a progression up to L20, involving some Master Chymist levels, but one of the group mentioned Gunslingers.

Now, my questions.
1) Is it worth taking levels in Gunslinger, at the expense of more and deadlier Bombs?
2) Can I purchase / craft firearms to take advantage of my alchemist perks and alchemical items (fire, acid, frost etc etc)?

[grarrrg]

Now, my questions.
1) Is it worth taking levels in Gunslinger, at the expense of more and deadlier Bombs?
2) Can I purchase / craft firearms to take advantage of my alchemist perks and alchemical items (fire, acid, frost etc etc)?

1: First off, Gunslinger is a VERY dippable class, it is fairly frontloaded with its bonuses, so you won't need to lose much from Alchemist.
Secondly, what are your Wis and Cha scores? If you have a decent Cha, than you can easily get away with only 1 level of Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger archetype). If your Wis is noticably higher (and/or your Cha is 10 or less), then you'll want to take up to 5 levels of Gunslinger for Dex-to-Damage and reduced Misfire chance.

2: Not so much. Granted you can craft guns/ammo, but you can't really combine with any Alchemist stuff. The only thing that comes to mind is the "Explosive Missile" discovery, which lets you fire bombs from your firearm.

[Larpus]

I agree with grarrrg, but sadly I don't think that overall Gunslinger meshes well with Alchemist due to how little Wis/Cha does to you as an Alchemist while Int does about as much for Gunslingers (though skills are nice).

Still, something like the Musket Master or Pistolero might be nice and fun to play, Craft (alchemy) will allow you to make cartridges, which can be very nice to have and some other cool abilities, though Bomb interaction is quite poor (even with Explosive Missile IMHO) and totally not sure if it's worth to lose spellcasting, bomb damage and Discoveries.

IMHO it can be worked out, but it would have to be with a focused build, as a last minute dip it might be not that great, it's not bad, but since there is no specific synergy it looks a bit like multiclass-built gishes.

[Frosty]

Say, can you, as an Alchemist, give yourself extra arms or something?

[BlueInc]

Say, can you, as an Alchemist, give yourself extra arms or something?

Yes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/tentacle-ex), you can (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/discoveries/paizo---alchemist-discoveries/vestigial-arm-ex).

[Larpus]

Say, can you, as an Alchemist, give yourself extra arms or something?
Yes you can, up to 4 arms I thik, but they don't give extra attacks, so no 4-armed 4-gunned pistolero.

However it seems that you can use 2 muskets at no penalty.

[Frosty]

Yes you can, up to 4 arms I thik, but they don't give extra attacks, so no 4-armed 4-gunned pistolero.

However it seems that you can use 2 muskets at no penalty.
Also, I wonder if the extra arms would help in aiming better or reloading faster for your alpha double-hackbut Dead Shots (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger#TOC-Deeds) :smallwink:

[grarrrg]

Say, can you, as an Alchemist, give yourself extra arms or something?

Extra Arms you say??

*shameless link* (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11889332&highlight=alchemist+gunslinger#post11889332)

An Alchemist can take the Arms evolution twice, and the Tentacle evolution once. Tentacles are effectively the same as arms. You end up with 5 arms total. Which is 5 carried pistols, or 4 carried pistols and a reloading hand.

Go. To. Town.

[Larpus]

Also, I wonder if the extra arms would help in aiming better or reloading faster for your alpha double-hackbut Dead Shots (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger#TOC-Deeds) :smallwink:
RAW, I think they don't, but I see no problems on it being considered RAI.

[panaikhan]

Sorry for the delay in posting.

Stats: Str 10, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 17, Wis 15, Cha 12.
I've already got Precise Shot and Point-Blank Shot, which seemed useful for my Alchemist.
I liked the idea of the touch-attack of firearms in PF, which goes hand-in-hand with the touch attack property of Bombs, and with a similar range.
If I went for Rapid Reload and a tentacle, could I get away with having a pistol-style firearm in each hand for TWF?

[grarrrg]

Sorry for the delay in posting.

Stats: Str 10, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 17, Wis 15, Cha 12.
I've already got Precise Shot and Point-Blank Shot, which seemed useful for my Alchemist.
I liked the idea of the touch-attack of firearms in PF, which goes hand-in-hand with the touch attack property of Bombs, and with a similar range.
If I went for Rapid Reload and a tentacle, could I get away with having a pistol-style firearm in each hand for TWF?

Easy question first. Yes Rapid Reload (and Cartridges) and an extra Tentacle/Arm would allow you to duel-wield (or more).

Your Cha bonus isn't too far from your Wis bonus, for 1 level of Mysterious Stranger can get you everything you need.

As an alternative, Musket Master gains Rapid Reload as a bonus feat at first level, and at 3rd as long as you have Grit you can treat 2-handed firearms as if they were 1-handed for reloading.

(for non-Mysterious types) It's up to you if Dex-to-damage at level 5 is worth it, you can definitely jump ship early.

[panaikhan]

OK.
Thanks a lot everyone, for your input on this.
One last question - what's the BAB like on Gunslinger? (I've been reading it's fighter-based, but don't have the book atm)
I was literally only taking Master Chymist for the BAB to get the whole Vital Strike chain - can I lose it altogether with this?

[SamBurke]

OK.
Thanks a lot everyone, for your input on this.
One last question - what's the BAB like on Gunslinger? (I've been reading it's fighter-based, but don't have the book atm)
I was literally only taking Master Chymist for the BAB to get the whole Vital Strike chain - can I lose it altogether with this?

It's a fighting class. Full BAB, BABy. /ShamelessPun

[Doorhandle]

Also, I wonder if the extra arms would help in aiming better or reloading faster for your alpha double-hackbut Dead Shots (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger#TOC-Deeds) :smallwink:


OOH! OHH! THAT'S ME!

Although I don't think it will help much. Although alchemy as a class skill would be very handy...

Yes, gunslinger have full B.A.B

[deuxhero]

How does a Magnus/Alchemist work?

[Larpus]

How does a Magnus/Alchemist work?
Well, it's an odd combination, the CLs would be fragmented and the spellcasting slots would be all over the place without really getting anywhere soon.

Also, your Arcane Pool would be rather dwarfy and so would your amount of bombs, not to mention other abilities related to class levels.

But, if instead of vanilla you go Vivisectionist, things get a bit more interesting, you get couple dices of sneak attack and there are some pretty nice self-boosting Discoveries, though most of them depend on Alchemist levels, Feral Mutagen or Vestigial Arms can be put to good use.

Speaking of which, Mutagen/Cognatogen can also be pretty good as a boost effect, just be careful because Str and Int are opposites in the equation, so boosting one will decrease the other in 2 points.

EDIT: Oh, and out of the two I'd say that the more dippable one is Alchemist, but only because there's the option for sneak attack instead of bomb, Spell Recall and Improved are too good to pass up on and Spellstrike is useless with extracts (and Magus has a better spell selection overall).

[deuxhero]

Which is odd, as alchemist clearly takes its inspiration from such a character...

[grarrrg]

While checking the thread for new replies, I just noticed this part of the original post (emphasis mine)


OK, so, I'm currently playing a Gnome Alchemist obsessed with fire.

Might I recommend Pyrokineticist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/pyrokineticist)?

Granted it's third party, but... you know... FIRE!

[panaikhan]

Still juggling with my options here...
Someone once mentioned 'shells' - a container that can be launched from a firearm and be filled with an alchemical substance.
Are these in a recognized PF source? Or could I make the 'craft' rolls and basically come up with them myself? How large are they?

[Larpus]

Still juggling with my options here...
Someone once mentioned 'shells' - a container that can be launched from a firearm and be filled with an alchemical substance.
Are these in a recognized PF source? Or could I make the 'craft' rolls and basically come up with them myself? How large are they?
I couldn't find anything about it in the SRD, but I do have a vague memory about something like that, maybe it was in the playtest, is a 3.5 thing or me and your friend are just crazy after seeing something like that in some comic/animation.

[panaikhan]

OK, if we're starting from scratch...
How much 'metagaming' can be involved? Do we assume we can invent rifling (and therefore be able to designate which part of our projectile strikes the target) or do we have to assume a spherical 'shot' that survives getting fired but breaks on impact?
(oh, I hate to see the catgirl death toll after this one :smalleek: )

[Larpus]

OK, if we're starting from scratch...
How much 'metagaming' can be involved? Do we assume we can invent rifling (and therefore be able to designate which part of our projectile strikes the target) or do we have to assume a spherical 'shot' that survives getting fired but breaks on impact?
(oh, I hate to see the catgirl death toll after this one :smalleek: )
I think the most obvious way would be to invent rifling.

After all, if you just put acid inside the sphere and shoots it, it explodes inside your gun

So you logically conclude that the back part needs to be stronger and more dense so the whole thing doesn't explode, but by doing that your sphere is now shaped like a bullet bill.

There would be some in-game test and trial (and lost guns) tho.

[BlueInc]

But, if instead of vanilla you go Vivisectionist, things get a bit more interesting, you get couple dices of sneak attack and there are some pretty nice self-boosting Discoveries, though most of them depend on Alchemist levels, Feral Mutagen or Vestigial Arms can be put to good use.

Oooooh. This should go in the "Pathfinder Gestalt Combinations" thread.