3.5 Playable Undead

[Aegis013]

A friend of mine had his 7th level generalist Wizard killed by a Specter, and has now become a specter, he was wondering what might be good options for his now Specter Wizard?

The group is a middle of the road optimization group (the cleric isn't using DMM etc) so we're not looking for anything too far off the beaten path. Any thoughts from you kind gents would be appreciated.

[gkathellar]

You could give him the Spectral Creature template from SS. Not very good, but you could do that. You might also transform him into a Necropolitan, perhaps doing a quest about that.

[Hague]

Emancipated Spawn is a PrC in Savage Species that allows a person made into undead to become free and recall their old abilities. Not sure if that applies with Specters or if they keep their class abilities but if not, your Wizard shouldn't have any sort of class abilities until he completes Emancipated Spawn.

Edit: You can still have him advance as a Specter <class> but they can't regain their old class levels and should have an ECL of whatever is appropriate for a Specter. Once emancipated spawn is complete, they get a sudden boost in ECL equal to their original class levels.

[Kenneth]

A friend of mine had his 7th level generalist Wizard killed by a Specter, and has now become a specter, he was wondering what might be good options for his now Specter Wizard?

The group is a middle of the road optimization group (the cleric isn't using DMM etc) so we're not looking for anything too far off the beaten path. Any thoughts from you kind gents would be appreciated.

I might be going about this all worng but.. this is what is says under teh spectre listing in the MM

Create Spawn (Su)

Any humanoid slain by a spectre becomes a spectre in 1d4 rounds. Spawn are under the command of the spectre that created them and remain enslaved until its death. They do not possess any of the abilities they had in life.

Note the part that I bolded. If the spectre who killed you wizard is still in existnce he /she has no control over his character

in any way. he loses all abilties he/she had in life so that means no spell casting

[gbprime]

There's Spectral Mage from Magic of Faerun. +2 LA, and you'd want to spend a feat to be able to use material equipment, but otherwise good.

[Hague]

Of course, you have to remember that now that Wizard is a Spectre with an ECL of I believe 7 (7 HD and no level adjustment) which is pretty convenient for a character that was already at level 7. He has no class abilities, assumes all the abilities of a typical Spectre, including Daylight Powerlessness. His alignment is now Lawful Evil unless he becomes freed at which point he can choose to be his original alignment or stay lawful evil. Once he has enough Xp (and is free) to advance a level he can either start his class progression over again, choose a new class, assume a monster class PrC, or take the Emancipated Spawn PrC which will at 3rd level restore all his/her former abilities and coincidentally shoot his/her ECL to 17, making him outpace all the other players :P

[DoctorGlock]

You could give him levels in the ghost savage progression class assuming you find away to get around the non autonomous undead bit

[Flickerdart]

Of course, you have to remember that now that Wizard is a Spectre with an ECL of I believe 7 (7 HD and no level adjustment) which is pretty convenient for a character that was already at level 7.
Spectre's LA is --, not 0: it's not an appropriate PC race, and so has an ECL of none.

[Hague]

Okay, well then we're at an impasse then. What do you suggest he do with the freed spectre spawn then? With no ECL and no LA how would he even go about gaining experience with regards to the rules described in Savage Species regarding freed spawn? It may not be "appropriate" but yet the rules have created a situation that is very real.

[gbprime]

Well that's why I suggested Spectral Mage. It's much like a spectre, but has a LA that won't kill you. (any more than you already are...)

[Draken]

Okay, well then we're at an impasse then. What do you suggest he do with the freed spectre spawn then? With no ECL and no LA how would he even go about gaining experience with regards to the rules described in Savage Species regarding freed spawn? It may not be "appropriate" but yet the rules have created a situation that is very real.

You can treat it as LA +0 if you feel like (spectre has its tricks, but overall it is inferior to a 7th level wizard).

Ooor the easy way out. Kill the spectre and revive the guy.

[Hague]

But it deprives the Wizard of the opportunity to struggle to regain their sanity and self from wracking torture of forced undeath and soul-draining, a powerful role-playing experience to be certain. I mean, the Spectre literally consumed the Wizard and pooped out another Spectre that looks like the Wizard but most of him/her is fundamentally lost in some way.

[awa]

you could go the pathfinder route i belive it just says cr is effective level and at certain levels get an extra class level as monster abbilities become less and less useful the higher your charecter level gets.

[Coidzor]

Of course, you have to remember that now that Wizard is a Spectre with an ECL of I believe 7 (7 HD and no level adjustment) which is pretty convenient for a character that was already at level 7. He has no class abilities, assumes all the abilities of a typical Spectre, including Daylight Powerlessness. His alignment is now Lawful Evil unless he becomes freed at which point he can choose to be his original alignment or stay lawful evil. Once he has enough Xp (and is free) to advance a level he can either start his class progression over again, choose a new class, assume a monster class PrC, or take the Emancipated Spawn PrC which will at 3rd level restore all his/her former abilities and coincidentally shoot his/her ECL to 17, making him outpace all the other players :P

Going from Wizard to Specter is pretty much a huge inconvenience and downgrade, especially since they're LA -. I doubt being over ECL'd from Spectre's RHD and Emancipated Spawn is going to make up for only having 4th level spells at ECL 17 while the rest of the group is 10th level.

[PirateLizard]

...Bring him back to life?

[bassmasterginga]

...Bring him back to life?

ya just kill his spectre and res him...

[Aegis013]

Thank you for all of your help and suggestions.
I want to clarify, I'm not his DM, and I'm not even in his group.

I suggested he ask here, and in turn he asked me to do it for him, since you fellows seem to have quite the vast shared encyclopedic knowledge pool about this game.

[Hague]

You could just cast resurrection directly on the spectre. No need to destroy it.

It could be an interesting plot point in the story for the character. Maybe the spectre doesn't want to be mortal again. I mean, if he dumped con and strength, or got bad rolls for those attributes it might be better off in terms of what the character is thinking. He is now at a level where he can hide easily, is virtually silent, has a draining melee attack he can combine with touch spells, immune to normal weapons, etc. He is effectively immortal through no personally evil circumstances (in fact, it might be considered a downright good act if he turns his curse into a blessing) In the immediate future, the player will be granted a great boon with some hurdles.

The biggest problem it'll have is the inability to handle material components and using treasure. There's a feat called Ghostly Grasp which allows you to use corporeal items. It's interesting to note that you'll have access to Improved Energy Drain as a feat. This would however, be way more beneficial had the character been a Sorcerer, as most of your incorporeal abilities are based on your charisma :/ If your DM was friendly, he might allow you to reassign the attributes of this particular Spectre to a set of feats that will be more amenable to your needs. Might I recommend You'll need a Cha of 15 to use Ghostly Grasp (unless you get it from the Ephemeral Exemplar PrC, which is kinda meh unless you plan on making lots of spawn) However, you will in the future be able to access Improved Energy Drain and Fell Drain. You'll be able to drain multiple levels and stack bonuses upon yourself as early as level 9 if your DM lets you change the base spectre's feat selection.

It should also be noted that you are not required to complete Emancipated Spawn. If you quit at level 2, you can keep all your old class features except for spellcasting which you can keep 1 spell of each level available. If you then drop emancipated spawn you can continue progression into a completely different class while keeping the wizards spell list, feats, and your familiar. You might use this as an opportunity to pick up the Sorcerer class and eventually Ultimate Magus As you are still treated as able to cast 4th level wizard spells, arcane caster level 7 with the hit dice and abilities of a 7 HD, incorporeal, undead, innately draining beast all with an ECL of 9. If you do pick Sorcerer, your familiar will still be treated as if you were a 7th level wizard, stacking with sorcerer levels. You could eschew magic all together and utilize your new abilities to become a Rogue with the ability to Improved Energy Drain sneak attack people without having to spend a single skill point on Move Silently. Really, taking Emancipated Spawn for the first two levels is the best route.

[Aegis013]

My friend's DM is allowing him to reallocate his feats, but not his base stat bonuses. I don't suppose something like a Ghost Touch Cloak of Charisma could exist?

Also, what feats might be especially interesting/beneficial to him and what books might they be found in? Thank you again for all of your help. We appreciate it.

[Hague]

Well, seeing as he is now a undead mockery, I recommend Libris Mortis, there you will find Ghostly Grasp (or the Ephemeral Exemplar, a incorporeal undead PrC which receives Ghostly Grasp for free but only at level 3, and your levels are better spent elsewhere) Improved Energy Drain, Lifedrain, and various other draining abilities. It should be noted that all these abilities require 13-15 charisma only (Spectre has base 15, so no problem there)

Ghostly Grasp will allow you to wear gear and equipment and use objects that are corporeal as if you were not incorporeal. It needs Cha 15 and incorporeal subtype

Improved Energy Drain grants a +1 bonus to skill checks, ability checks, attack rolls and saving throws for 1 hour whenever you bestow a negative level on a creature. This ability is horribly broken as the bonus is untyped (stacks) and it doesn't define the energy drain ability specifically. This means that you can use any method of bestowing a negative level to gain this benefit. Couple this with the Fell Drain Metamagic Feat which adds two to the spell slot cost but makes it so anyone dealt damage by the spell receives a negative level. A magic missile can strike multiple targets, draining a level from each and bestowing you with an untyped bonus on many rolls for as many targets as you can hit.

Life Drain: Adds your Cha modifier to the amount of temporary hitpoints you gain and the amount lost from a target for every level you drain from them. If you pump your charisma, you can drain a significant amount of free HP.

Spell Drain: This one is interesting. Requires Cha 15, energy drain Su ability, Improved Energy Drain and caster level 5th. (all of which you'll qualify for at 2nd level of Emancipated Spawn.) If you bestow a negative level on a prepared spell caster and they lose a spell, you gain the ability to cast it as if you had prepared it yourself but with the target's abilities (CL, save DC and so on) You can have a maximum number of drained spells equal to your charisma modifier. This means that not only can you drain a cleric of their levels, you can steal their most powerful spells.

Improved Turning Resistance: Your mileage may vary, but having the Bad Guy rebuke or control your wizard maybe bad. It adds +4 to your effective HD for the purposes of turning. Combined with a spectres natural +2 turn resistance and the +4 granted by the second level of Emancipated spawn, your effective hit dice to resist turning would be 19. YMMV.

If you read the Spectre's description, it says any humanoid "slain by a spectre" becomes a spawn in 1d4 rounds. This means that any method by which you slay them, turns them into spawn. Of course, filling the world with spectres is probably considered evil, so your DM might give you a choice to not create spawn or the option to destroy your spawn once created or only apply it to creatures killed by your incorporeal touch attack