Bard//Warlock Gestalt CharOp

[kardar233]

I'm going to be participating in a campaign pretty soon for which the GM is giving out the Vampire template at +0 LA, but I bargained that away for gestalt status as I had a character idea I wanted to try.

So the character is looking at this for a base: Warlock4/Eldritch Theurge5/Hellfire Warlock3/Barbarian1/Eldritch Theurge+5/Warlock+2//Bard4/Warblade16.

Basically, I'm shooting to get a whole bunch of sources of bonus damage on a fairly Charisma-SAD melee Warlock. The Bardblade combination gives him full Inspire Courage progression plus durability and damage output while the Warlock gives him nice untyped damage and utility.

Things I need:
Dragonfire Inspiration
Song of the White Raven
Lingering Song
Eldritch Claws

Things I'd like to have:
Words of Creation
Song of the Heart
Superior Unarmed Strike
Beast Strike
(Improved) Rapidstrike
Snowflake Wardance

Badge of Valour
Slippers of Battledancing
Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows
Masterwork Natural Horn

Got any ideas? I was thinking of dipping Paladin 2 with the Harmonious Knight substitution for Divine Grace and some more IC, but it'd have to fit on the Warlock side. Another thing I was considering is a 2-level dip into Seeker of the Song, which I'm told would allow me to double up on Dragonfire Inspiration as long as I was using two different elements.

Question of relevance: is it possible to use the Draconic or Dragonborn template to get the Dragon type and qualify for Rapidstrike? I'd rather not use Elan as it conflicts with the Cha-SAD nature of the build.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well, you've got some issues here... Primarily, no dual-progression PrC's like Eldritch Theurge.

Here's a suggestion, feel free to ignore it.

Warlock6/Mindbender1/HFW3/Legacy Champion10//Bard4/Crusader16

Why Crusader over Warblade? Well, it gets more CHA synergy (will saves), more self-healing, and more resistance to being killed.

Here's the thing about this... you're doing some 30d6+ damage per swing with your glaive. That's way more than a maneuver is going to do. Therefore, what you don't need is any maneuvers that do damage, since they are incompatible. So what you DO need is more ways to say 'no'. Which is what Crusader does.

You can't double-up on DFI with a two-level dip in Seeker of the Song, because you are stuck with one specific flavor. What you CAN do, however, is both IC and DFI. However, you're going to be burning through Bardic Music uses per day, and you've only got four of them total.

[kardar233]

Ehhh, I always thought that dual-progression rule was stupid.

I was actually going Clawlock rather than Glaivelock, though I might grab Glaive if I have a spare feat for the reach. I don't think it gives AoOs though.... Mainly, I was thinking that through Improved Rapidstrike I could get more attacks and thus more effectiveness through my buckets of bonus damage. Glaivelock might be better for earlier levels, as I'm starting at 5.

Inspired by your flaming madman build (Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11251749&postcount=77)) I was thinking of trying to fit in Telflammar Shadowlord somehow (grab Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance for the sneak attack requirement?) and Shadowpouncing with Flee the Scene and maybe Martial Study one of the teleportation maneuvers.

I was going Warblade rather than Crusader mainly for Diamond Mind counters and Tiger Claw stuff. By the way, how does Dancing/Raging Mongoose or Haste interact with Eldritch Claws? That might be the make-or-break, though I really hate the Crusader recovery mechanic.

Speaking of Haste, if it interacts properly with Claws I might consider Swiftblade on the Warlock side.

Going to check with the DM about Legacy Champion/Uncanny Trickster progressing HFW. If that doesn't fly, I might go diptastic to make myself more CHA-SAD through that Paladin dip or any others you might think of.

Are there any Eldritch Essences that change it to Sonic damage? I'd love to double-dip with Creaking Cacophony.

[MeeposFire]

Since you are allowing claws it is far better than glaive ion most cases. There are two things that glaive does better off the top of my head

1. It has reach so you can cover more area

2. It is still a touch attack

Other than that it is the lesser ability. For instance glaive can not be used with haste but the claws can. If you take beast strike (or whatever that feat is called) it will allow you to apply your claw damage on you unarmed damage (which means essentially you deal unarmed damage twice). Claws have a much higher ceiling and you can apply more to it than glaive. Since the claws are a weapon (at the very least they are with beast strike) you can use them with maneuvers unlike the glaive. Using beast strike also lets you use the awesome unarmed feats such as snap kick.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ehhh, I always thought that dual-progression rule was stupid. Really? Remind me to share with you some of the quad-9's builds... which is what happens when you don't limit it.


I was actually going Clawlock rather than Glaivelock, though I might grab Glaive if I have a spare feat for the reach. I don't think it gives AoOs though.... Mainly, I was thinking that through Improved Rapidstrike I could get more attacks and thus more effectiveness through my buckets of bonus damage. Glaivelock might be better for earlier levels, as I'm starting at 5. Eh, I don't much like using DragonMag content since most GM's ban homebrew. Glaivelock gets you reach, but Claws are inherently superior, by virtue of playing nice with maneuvers.


Inspired by your flaming madman build (Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11251749&postcount=77)) I was thinking of trying to fit in Telflammar Shadowlord somehow (grab Martial Stance: Assassin's Stance for the sneak attack requirement?) and Shadowpouncing with Flee the Scene and maybe Martial Study one of the teleportation maneuvers. Swiftblade can't be paired with the build you linked, for the reasons mentioned in the post. Namely, you can't qualify since you don't have Haste.


I was going Warblade rather than Crusader mainly for Diamond Mind counters and Tiger Claw stuff. By the way, how does Dancing/Raging Mongoose or Haste interact with Eldritch Claws? That might be the make-or-break, though I really hate the Crusader recovery mechanic. Why bother with counters when you can get immunities. Tiger Claw isn't much use to you if you're shadowpouncing.


Speaking of Haste, if it interacts properly with Claws I might consider Swiftblade on the Warlock side.

Going to check with the DM about Legacy Champion/Uncanny Trickster progressing HFW. If that doesn't fly, I might go diptastic to make myself more CHA-SAD through that Paladin dip or any others you might think of.

Are there any Eldritch Essences that change it to Sonic damage? I'd love to double-dip with Creaking Cacophony.

Swiftblade doesn't play fair with Warlock, due to a lack of... yanno... being able to cast Haste. Which most of it's abilities requires. Not to mention the prerequisites.

No essences do Sonic damage, sorry. Lightning either. Too bad, although Born of Three Thunders is superior to Creaking Cacophony for locking down at the same time as blowing up. There's an item in MIC that lets you do it 3/day, but that's about it.

[kardar233]

Seems I'm going to have to decide what I'm focusing on. Shadowpounce, while nice, doesn't seem to mesh too well with my idea.

Swiftblade doesn't work with Warlock but I was thinking of qualifying through Bard spellcasting and then using it to progress Invocations, but I wouldn't qualify until Bard7, so I can scrap that.

The main part I'm thinking over is the lead-up to Hellfire Warlock. There, my only real obligation is having 6 levels of Invocation-ing, which leaves room both for mundane stuff and casting-progressing PrCs. Do any arcane caster PrCs work well with Warlock? Additionally, I'm looking at Shou Disciple and Thayan Gladiator for more damage and attacks. Do you know how Flurry, Natural Weapon Focus and Rapidstrike interact? And how (if at all) would the Gladiator's Imbue Natural Weapon ability play with a Necklace of Natural Attacks?

I've also got two levels of non-initiator free on the Bard side, which means I have a total of 5 mundane levels to play with. Hmmm....