Monk Optimization

[OracleofSilence]

I realize that the monk is a fairly (to say the least)) poor class. However, to demonstrate that sometimes fighting smart is better then fighting "well", I am interested in finding effective ways to optimize the 3.5 Monk. All i need are a few good feats and maybe a prestige class. Psionic and Divine monks are okay, but not really on topic.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I realize that the monk is a fairly (to say the least)) poor class. However, to demonstrate that sometimes fighting smart is better then fighting "well", I am interested in finding effective ways to optimize the 3.5 Monk. All i need are a few good feats and maybe a prestige class. Psionic and Divine monks are okay, but not really on topic.

Psionic and Divine monks is the only way to make it relevant, which makes it on topic if you're trying to make a monk that does something other than 'miss a lot and generally be ignored'.

[Zaq]

How many levels in Monk are you requiring that we take? (Hint: Lower is better.)

Actually, let's refine that a bit. What level are you looking for, and how many levels are the bare minimum that you want to take in the actual capital-M Monk class?

[OracleofSilence]

This will probably ast through mid to high levels (10-15). And to answer that, while the build does not need to be a monk, i would prefer that nothing like the Unarmed Swordsage was used, simply because ToB is a little shaky in this game.

[Curious]

Ask your DM if you can use the PF Monk, which is better. Then, do this:


Be a Hungry Ghost (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/hungry-ghost-monk), Qinggong (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/qinggong-monk) monk. Trade Tongue of the Sun and Moon for Cold Ice Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/cold-ice-strike), take the Dimensional feats on the PFSRD up to Dimensional Dervish (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/dimensional-dervish), grab the Spider Step (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/spider-step) and Cloud Step (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/cloud-step) feats, dual wield keen guided (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapons-non-core/weapon-property---guided) kukris. Pick up a few style feats, such as Dragon (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dragon-style-combat) or Crane (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/crane-wing-combat) style.

Guided adds Wis to damage and to hit in place of Str, Dimensional Dervish allows you to move + full attack, Spider Step allows you to run across water or up walls, cloud Step allows you to run across the air, Cold Ice Strike is a swift action 15d6 attack, Hungry Ghost allows you to regain ki on a crit or kill. Be human.

[Zaq]

This will probably ast through mid to high levels (10-15). And to answer that, while the build does not need to be a monk, i would prefer that nothing like the Unarmed Swordsage was used, simply because ToB is a little shaky in this game.

That's fine, but again, how many levels do we need? It's possible to get most of the relevant Monk abilities without a single level in either Monk or USS (hell, it takes more feats than a lot of people like, but you can get into Tashalatora with a straight Ardent). What's the minimum you'll take and still accept it as a Monk build?

[OracleofSilence]

One or two is fine. I am going more for the feel of a monk/whatever then an actual monk, which is indeed pathetically bad.

[Hirax]

Monk2/psychic warriorX is a perfectly viable build, with the tashalatora feat. Realistically you could even ditch the monk levels and just wear a monk's belt, though that's cost prohibitive if you're starting at low levels.

[Lans]

What are the other party members? If their Tier 3 and lower you can stick with monk 20 with high amount of optimization and a few high powered ACFs, Invisible Fist, Martial Monk, or the one where your totally concealed for the not day part of a day

[Doorhandle]

This is a pathfinder only option, but your best bet for full monk is to take a master of many styles, pump Dex and wisdom, and them have both the snake style and panther style chains. Snake style eventually allows you to make attacks of opportunity against people that miss you, while panther styles allows you to attack back any creature that makes an attack of opportunity against you, and you will want wind and lightning style as well to prevent you from being hit back. your main tactic is to run into a mob of enemies, trigger A.O.O form ALL of them, and end up punching them all back, possibly twice for every attack depending on how the D.M interprets snake style. Get crane style as well, while you're at it.

Going to be tricky to have high strength as well, but you already know that monks are hella M.A.D though.

[OracleofSilence]

The only definte thing so far is Warblade, so around Teir 3, at east for now.

[hex0]

It depends. Greater Flurry with 16 or more BAB is nice. I don't think any monk prc advances Flurry, though so you would have to stick to monk 11 first.

[Eldariel]

Psionic and Divine monks is the only way to make it relevant, which makes it on topic if you're trying to make a monk that does something other than 'miss a lot and generally be ignored'.

Arcane Monks are fine too (Enlightened Fist is decent and arcane casting is godlike). And Unarmed Swordsage (aka. ToB Monk) or Monk/Swordsage/Shadow Sun Ninja (aka. The Other ToB Monk).

But yeah, best Monks are probably Monk 2/Ardent 18 with Tashalatora (aka. Gestalt Monk 20/Ardent 20 without gestalting) and Cleric 5/Monk 1/Sacred Fist 10/Whatever 4.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Monk 2/Ardent 4/Slayer 10/Sanctified Mind or Anarchic Initiate or maybe even ghost breaker 4

With Tashalastora Slayer for 12 level monk abilities, ML 20 (with Practiced Manifester) BAB 18

[Incanur]

The Decisive Strike ACF from the PHBII plus Snap Kick from ToB equals some serious win, especially if you can get size/reach increase.

[Golden Ladybug]

Okay, heres something I've been working on

Battle Sorcerer 4/Monk 2/Tattooed Monk 3/Abjurant Champion 4/Tattooed Monk +7

...Alright, so that already makes what I'm saying a bit suspect, but bear with me. This Monk build is completely dependant on your Charisma. It probably isn't the best build out there, but I find the idea of a Ascetic Warrior using only his charm and wits to get along hilarious.

Feats: 1) Weapon Finesse
3) Endurance
6) Ascetic Mage
9) Practiced Spellcaster
12) Travel Devotion
15) Sacred Vow
18) Vow of Poverty
VoP18) Vow of Nonviolence
voP20) Vow of Peace

BAB: 14/9/4

The point of this is using the Tattooed Monk's Bellflower Tattoo to add your Charisma Modifier as an enhancement to any stat. You can do this a total of 5 times per day, lasting for 10 rounds. The other Tattoos you choose give you a variety of cool abilities, but my favourites are Crab (DR 2/Magicxthe number of Tattoos you have), Crane (Immunity to aging penalties and diseases as long as you take it as your third Tattoo or earlier), Phoenix (SR 15+Tattooed Monk Levels) and Tiger (Tattoos/Per Day, you can grant a +1 on all Attack rolls and deal an extra 1d6 damage with every successful hit, for up to 10 rounds).

Battle Sorcerer is used to get access to a few neat spells; namely Enlarge Person, Wings of Cover, Wraithstrike and Greater Mighty Wallop (if you can get another Spellcaster with a better CL to Permancey this for you, replace with Haste and drop Practised Spellcaster). It also lets you grab Ascetic Mage, which lets you stack your Monk and Sorcerer Levels for the Monk's AC Bonus, and lets you use Charisma instead of Wisdom to boost it up. It gets you into Abjurant Champion, so you can Cast Shield as a Swift Action when you go into combat, and it gives you a Better Base Attack Bonus.

Tattooed Monk stacks with Regular Monk to determine how much extra damage your Unarmed Strikes deal, your increased Speed and your AC bonus. You're treated as a 16th level monk for those abilities.

Assuming you find a way of Aging yourself to Venerable after you grab all your Tattoos (or play a Dragonwrought Kobold, in which case you should grab the Crysantheum Tattoo, and Kobold Endurance instead of the regular version. Taking a Flaw is helpful here), 32 Point Buy and sneaking a peak at a Tome of Leadership and Influence before you swear your Vow of Poverty, it is possible to get a Charisma score of 39 without any modifiers, and a +14 bonus to your stats. That one extraneous point on level up can be placed elsewhere, so that when you Bellflower yourself you hit an even 52 (+21), and add that to your next most important stat; Dexterity.

Weapon Finesse lets you use your Dexterity to attack with your fists, which you can get to Colossal Size Fists, coming from a Large Monk's Unarmed Strike Progression. Travel Devotion lets you get to the thing you want to hit. Bellflower gives you Bonuses to whatever you need at the time, and your Other Tattoos and your Vows give you some amazing defenses.

Invest heavily in Diplomacy, and take Charm Person somewhere along the line. Have fun being the most Charismatic Monk that ever lived.

[Strormer]

As a point of interest, BoED has a feat called Vow of Poverty that, for a significant sacrifice, gives Monks fighter level combat power. It worked so well that my DM actually plotted ways to kill off my monk because he couldn't stand a monk that could stand up front in combat. I'll see if I can find the character sheet to give you the build. Straight up Monk 20, though, that I remember.

[Anarchy_Kanya]

As a point of interest, BoED has a feat called Vow of Poverty that, for a significant sacrifice, gives Monks fighter level combat power. It worked so well that my DM actually plotted ways to kill off my monk because he couldn't stand a monk that could stand up front in combat. I'll see if I can find the character sheet to give you the build. Straight up Monk 20, though, that I remember.
Hehe, good one. For a second there I thought you're being serious. :smallamused:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For max Monk abilities, Monk 1/ (Martial) Wizard 4/ Enlightened Fist 5/ Master of the East Wind 10, with either Kung-Fu Genius or Carmendine Monk to switch everything that was Wis-based to Int-based. That gets 18th level Wizard spellcasting and 16th level Monk abilities (AC, unarmed damage, speed), and you can cast a touch spell as part of a full attack (Vampiric Touch, Shivering Touch, etc.). Use (Greater) Luminous/Mage Armor and Shield to improve your AC, Bull's Strength, (Greater) Mighty Wallop, and (Draconic) Polymorph to improve your offensive capabilities, and you've got all the versatility and utility of a Wizard. Use fractional BAB with this if possible.

Switch some (all) of the Master of the East Wind (and Enlightened Fist) for Abjurant Champion and/or Incantatrix and/or Swiftblade for better/longer buffs and better BAB at an insignificant loss of Monk abilities.

You can switch Wizard for Sorcerer and use Ascetic Mage and you'll still get 9th level spells at 20th level, though it's not recommended unless starting out at 6th+ level.

[Ayedi_Star]

I can't really think of any good advice off the top of my head, but A bit of anecdotal knowledge / something to consider after it:

A player in my red hand of doom game has just gotten to Monk 7... as a halfling. :smallfrown:
A couple of halfling roleplay situations in Drellin's ferry scored her a war sling and a stack of skip rocks, but that really hasn't helped neutralise just how bad the straight monk is.
And she doesn't even realise it. But, as you can imagine, she's getting frustrated beyond belief at times, especially at Skull Gorge Bridge against the dragon.

I am not normally a DM that just gives stuff out, but I am seriously tempted to show mercy and have the Artificer npc following the group enchant her fists to deal medium-sized damage (doing the equivilant of permanency mighty wallop to medium size, or burning a lot of her gold to give her a bonus feat, improved natural weapon?) and maybe even break WBL and slap a monk's belt on her.. all for a hefty roleplay equivilant of "I'm doing this for you, so you better follow what I'm saying at times" favor for later from the artificer who is only in the area to acquire a Khyber dragonshard (obviously, this is being DM fiat'd in).

It won't save her from some things, especially some possibilities:
the return of the hydra (they didn't kill it)... especially when I stack half-dragon on it.
being swallowed by any number of things, like the Barghest(?).

Or even....
the specialist "monk" (read: unarmed swordsage focusing on setting sun counters / throws to make the players 'WTF') that'll be challenging her to a 1-on-1 fight at some point, I'm hoping to game the timescale so that they get enough time before the battle of brindol for them to find him, have the venerable old geezer challenge her, and then engage in a fight to the death with her... the prize? sparring dummy of the master and enough time to have it kick in before the epic battle. just as a plus point and future character option for later campaigns.)

I really don't know any monk optimization other than the fact monks unarmed attacks are treated as manufactured AND natural weapons for the purposes of spells and effects that affect them, so technically speaking they are open to direct enchantment like any normal melee or ranged weapon as far as I'm aware (AFB at the moment, so I imagine I'll be shortly corrected)

I can't double-check right now but part of me wants to suggest this lets them use weapon augmentation crystals.
Strictly speaking, if there's an augmentation crystal that provides a monk's unarmed attacks with some kind of benefit (Hello, energy-type damage crystals!) then one possible peice of whacky business is to have a fist of fire, a fist of frost, and to be able to use the two interchangably per seperate set of attacks - to use both would obviously be a use of two-weapon fighting, but only using one, I think, counts as standard attacking.

I'd allow it if only because the idea of her halfling monk headbutting someone while her head lights ON FIRE to do so is so awesome I couldn't bring myself to penalise her for it.

[tyckspoon]

I really don't know any monk optimization other than the fact monks unarmed attacks are treated as manufactured AND natural weapons for the purposes of spells and effects that affect them, so technically speaking they are open to direct enchantment like any normal melee or ranged weapon as far as I'm aware (AFB at the moment, so I imagine I'll be shortly corrected)

I can't double-check right now but part of me wants to suggest this lets them use weapon augmentation crystals.


Yup. The main thing standing in the way there is that both enchanting and augment crystals require the base item to be of Masterwork quality unless you get a direct exemption, like Warforged have for getting themselves/their composite plating enchanted. Otherwise it is impossible for a creature to be a Masterwork item (I suppose you could stretch an argument for an artificially created creature.. have a master sculptor make a statue and then animate it/Stone to Flesh/Poly Any Object it into life.. but I trust your particular halfling monk likely wasn't made that way.)

[Ayedi_Star]

Yup. The main thing standing in the way there is that both enchanting and augment crystals require the base item to be of Masterwork quality unless you get a direct exemption, like Warforged have for getting themselves/their composite plating enchanted. Otherwise it is impossible for a creature to be a Masterwork item (I suppose you could stretch an argument for an artificially created creature.. have a master sculptor make a statue and then animate it/Stone to Flesh/Poly Any Object it into life.. but I trust your particular halfling monk likely wasn't made that way.)

Ahh! there's the rub, alright!

Nope, fleshies indeed cannot be masterwork and the monk is most definitely mundane.... I'm also loath to suggest just adding 300GP value to the girl and calling it a day for some reason :smallyuk::smalltongue:

I may have to come up with some sort of "masterwork process" if I want to be nice to the halfling .... maybe a graft? how hard would it be to "craft" a set of masterwork hands, lop the originals off, upgrade them?

Maybe that's a bit much.... Implants? a masterwork component surgically embedded into her arms / hands to at least carry the enchantments as a rider effect? the artificer's practical but she's not downright mad scientist, fleshcrafting's beyond her moral compass / ethics.

now, if it was just operating on or tweaking her... the bones in her hand with alchemically made masterwork versions.......

Oh god, halfling monk version of wolverine... just cut the hands open, replace the bones, use healing / a weak regeneration effect...

Anybody got any suggestion for how to do this?
As loath as I am to say it, Adamantine is not an acceptable substitute for the bones. :smallbiggrin:

[Eldariel]

Just houserule Ki Strike also make the Monk's unarmed strikes count as Masterwork Weapons. 'cause seriously, we're talking about a warrior who hones his body as a weapon as his reason for living. It's not much of a stretch that he actually accomplishes something. Without houserules you really only have very convoluted spell comboes or Sarrukh available.

[Greyfell]

Kensai would specifically allow a monk to enchant his/her fists (it's actually the example character as welll irrc)

ou might have to seriously fiddle with the entry requirements though.. I for one never unxerstood why a class that is all about become an almost mythical master of a chosen weapon has to take ranks in ride....

[etrpgb]

Just kidding...

Just find a way to cast Polymorph Any Object on you twice at level 8 and become a Beholder.

1 Psionic Fighter - [B]Practiced Manifester
2 Monk
3 Monk
4 Monk
5 Monk
6 Monk - Metamorphic Transfer (Eye Rays)
7 Monk
8 Psionic Fighter - [B]Metamorphic Transfer (Central Antimagic Eye)
9 Beholder Mage
10 Beholder Mage
11 Enlighted Fist
12 Enlighted Fist
...
20 Enlighted Fist
End of joke.


What about a magical monk?
1 Monk
2 Monk or Beguiller
3 Beguiller
4 Beguiller
5 Beguiller
6 Enlighted Fist
7 Enlighted Fist
8 Enlighted Fist
9 Enlighted Fist (Ascetic Mage)
10 Virtuoso
11 Sublime Chord
12 Enlighten Fist
13 Master of The East Wind
14 Master of The East Wind
15 Master of The East Wind
16 Master of The East Wind
17 Master of The East Wind
18 Master of The East Wind
19 Master of The East Wind
20 Master of The East Wind

[Raendyn]

Just find a way to cast Polymorph Any Object on you twice at level 8 and become a Beholder.

Wasn't that beholder mage needed you to be true beholder? PaO doesn't do the trick that the main reason the famous Bmage-sweomerkeeper is a mistake. (appart from all the others)

[Doorhandle]

Yup. The main thing standing in the way there is that both enchanting and augment crystals require the base item to be of Masterwork quality unless you get a direct exemption, like Warforged have for getting themselves/their composite plating enchanted. Otherwise it is impossible for a creature to be a Masterwork item (I suppose you could stretch an argument for an artificially created creature.. have a master sculptor make a statue and then animate it/Stone to Flesh/Poly Any Object it into life.. but I trust your particular halfling monk likely wasn't made that way.)

Masterwork gloves.

DURRR.

[Eldariel]

Wasn't that beholder mage needed you to be true beholder? PaO doesn't do the trick that the main reason the famous Bmage-sweomerkeeper is a mistake. (appart from all the others)

PAO changes your type & very being into whatever you're being changed into; I can't imagine how you couldn't qualify as a Beholder if you're a Beholder. Tho you can just use Psionic Sandwich or Magic Jar chain break for another easy entry in which case you're a Beholder even without magic. It really doesn't matter; trying to RAW away Theoretical Optimization is an exercise in futility and pointlessness.

[Ayedi_Star]

Masterwork gloves.

DURRR.

And if the character already has gloves they are using? besides, that limits them to the item slot OR the weapon slot, or half of each, instead of both, like any other character.

Magic-hands monk gets the benefit of deciding to enchant them with seperate things, too...

Here's a question though.

What would people say to someone wearing gloves / having magically enchantable hands by some means and having the Morphing quality put onto them? impromtu weapon-based warshaper? able to turn their arms or hands into other weapons, at least thematically? doesn't change crit range or multiplier but can alter damage type to slashing or peircing (alteration of bones into sharp points?)

Admittedly, I wouldn't let the monk in the red hand of doom campaign get morphing quality, as it's a WEIRD perversion of how unarmed combat works, but I may need to see how easy it is to get arms made out of Kaotri Resin (or anything else) grafted on, masterwork'd, and have the equivilent of alex mercer from prototype.

Yeah, warshaper exists for pretty much this, but alternatives are always nice.

I need to re-read morphing quality, but could it allow light, one-armed, and ranged weapons? (technically speaking I'm talking more a literal hand crossbow than a longbow or such).

[etrpgb]

Another possibility is the Ur-Monk. I kinda like this idea.

Lawful Evil
1 Hexblade (Combat Reflex)
2 Hexblade
3 Hexblade Spellcraft 6, Bluff 6 (Iron Will)
4 Monk (Stunning Fist, Improved Unarmed Strike)
5 Monk
6 Monk (Spell Focus [Evil])
7 Monk
8 Monk K(Arcana) 5, K(The Planes) 5, K(Religion) 8, Spellcraft 8
9 Ur-Priest (Combat Casting)
10 Ur-Priest
11 Sacred First
12 Sacred First
13 Sacred First
14 Sacred First
15 Sacred First
16 Sacred First
17 Sacred First
18 Sacred First
19 Sacred First
20 Sacred First

[Daftendirekt]

or the one where your totally concealed for the not day part of a day

So.... night time? :smallconfused:

[etrpgb]

PAO changes your type & very being into whatever you're being changed into; I can't imagine how you couldn't qualify as a Beholder if you're a Beholder. Tho you can just use Psionic Sandwich or Magic Jar chain break for another easy entry in which case you're a Beholder even without magic. It really doesn't matter; trying to RAW away Theoretical Optimization is an exercise in futility and pointlessness.

Seriously guys... I started the message stating I was kidding. Beside even if you actually want to play a crazy character that renounce to its form for power it is surely not really a Monk. It is mainly a Sorcerer (that learn spells as wizards).

I just found it fun because the magical hand of the Beholder Mage is explicitly described as good for Monk unarmed attacks and the Enlighted Fist gives bonus your speed. So at the end you are a fast moving Beholder with lots of spells.

About the original question, it does work. PAO changes you: ``it changes one object or creature into another.'' As you read there is no ``assume the form'' strangeness.

Casting the spell twice ensures that the change is permanent (in fact changing a Beholder in a Beholder triggers all the ``Increase to Duration Factor''). You can make it permanent also being Large and having at least 17 of Intelligence. So you can also cast Enlarge Person, Fox’s Cunning and finally PAO.

So we satisfy the requirement `True Beholder', about the other two requirements: the large eye and the small eyes they are ensured by the Metamorphic Transfer feats.
The small eyes are not explicitly required in the prestige class introduction, but if you read you see that the Beholder Mage assign its eyes to its spells levels (one eye cast level 0 spells, another eye level 1 spells, another level eye 2 spells...). So you need the small eyes working if you want to cast anything.

You can also try to join using the feat ``Assume Supernatural Ability'', but it need the ability to change form. So it might be harder to qualify.

[Eldariel]

Seriously guys... I started the message stating I was kidding.

...why are you responding to me? I just pointed out that it does, in fact, work.

[Nagukuk]

Few choices

Amulet of natural attacks - Savage Species - make natural weapons enchanted.

There is a ring that gives a size up for damage, Fanged Ring, maybe, cant remember its location.

Monk Tattoo gives a bonus to unarmed damage level.

An X times per day item of druid spell Magic Fang. etc..

Have the NPC guy "teach" her UMD, so she can use wands or what ever to buff up.

[MeeposFire]

Few choices

Amulet of natural attacks - Savage Species - make natural weapons enchanted.

There is a ring that gives a size up for damage, Fanged Ring, maybe, cant remember its location.

Monk Tattoo gives a bonus to unarmed damage level.

An X times per day item of druid spell Magic Fang. etc..

Have the NPC guy "teach" her UMD, so she can use wands or what ever to buff up.

Fanged ring has many incarnations but the most recent one, in terms of size increases, gives you a imp natural attack feat for free for your unarmed attack. In that case it is whether a feat or your ring slot is more important to you.

[SaintRidley]

Fun thoughts: Overcoming the issue of Flurry of Blows and its inability to be used when you move. We need a way to get pounce and make a monk charger.

Psionic Warrior works - it gets a power that grants pounce. Alternately, you could always build in your monk's backstory that of a barbarian made civilized. The savage turned ascetic is a really cool story to work with, so I don't see any reason anyone would object. Oh, and the only thing barbarians lose by becoming lawful is rage. Which is fine, as all we need from barbarian is pounce and BAB.

On that second one, Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian grants pounce in place of the barbarian's fast movement at level 3. 3 levels of barbarian is a pretty decent dip - a little uncanny dodge, trap sense. Pounce is the big one, along with the BAB to help offset the Monk's lower BAB.

Monk fast movement will help you out later. Keep Jump maximized. Build yourself toward leap attack and shock trooper - and flurry on your pounce. Not as good as more typical charger or ubercharger build, but building yourself from that base allows you to make use of your fast movement in a way that actually helps flurry.

[tyckspoon]

On that second one, Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian grants pounce in place of the barbarian's fast movement at level 3. 3 levels of barbarian is a pretty decent dip - a little uncanny dodge, trap sense. Pounce is the big one, along with the BAB to help offset the Monk's lower BAB.


You're remembering the Trap Sense substitutions, I think. Fast movement and the associated replacements happen at level 1.

[SaintRidley]

Yeah, I don't have my books on me, so I'm going by memory. Faulty memory, apparently.

Point is, pounce is in there and it makes your monk at least competent.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

MoI has Sphinx Claws for pounce as well, if you don't want to go psionic or run out of PP before you run out of times you need to pounce.

[etrpgb]

...why are you responding to me? I just pointed out that it does, in fact, work.

I answered because I felt the need to explain completely why it works. The answer was more for Raendyn than you anyway.

[Lans]

So.... night time? :smallconfused:

I should of said not full daylight part of the day, which would include being indoors.

[Mr.Bookworm]

How to optimize a Monk? This build might help. Only goes up to 10 levels, though.

The Improved Monk

Abilities

Elite array: 15, 10, 13, 12, 11, 8

Level Breakdown

Fighter 1 - Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), Open Feat
Fighter 2 - Open Feat
Fighter 3 - Superior Unarmed Strike, Open Feat
Fighter 4 - Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike), +1 Con
Fighter 5
Fighter 6 - Snap Kick, Open Feat
Fighter 7
Fighter 8 - Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike), +1 Str
Fighter 9 - Open Feat
Fighter 10 - Greater Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)

Wealth By Level

13000 gp for a monk's belt
10000 gp for a fanged ring
2200 gp for a ring of feather fall

23800 gp left.

Features of the Improved Monk
Slow fall from any distance, and not just next to a wall! Flurries for +8/+8/+3! Attacks twice in a standard action! 64 average HP! Can wear full-plate!

The Improved Monk's unarmed strike attacks at +13/+13 as a standard action, dealing 2d8+5 with the first strike and 2d8+3 with the second, for an average of 26 damage each round!


Sarcasm tag goes here.

Anyway, the real problem with Monk optimization is well, what I just did, in that any builds that are actually good (my build isn't any good, but details, details) tend to not have many levels in the Monk class. You can be a divine monk of some sort, but then you're a Clericzilla who happens to punch people instead of stabbing them. You can be an arcane monk, but then you're a Wizard with buffing spells who happens to punch people instead of stabbing them. You can be a psychic monk, usually with the Tashalatora feat, but then you're a buffer-psion or psychic warrior who happens to punch people instead of stabbing them. I've never seen a monk build that is an actual straight-classed monk of some sort before going into a PrC.

So, yeah. You could maybe build a workable Pathfinder Monk with all of the ACFs, but even then I would just multiclass out as soon as possible.

[kulosle]

i can't remember where it is at the moment, but somewhere on the great and expanding interwebs i saw a build that for a brief moment made me want to play a monk. it was a warforged monk artificer, made sense to me at a glance but i only read it for a little bit before i realized i was reading a monk build and stopped. it might be worth another look though. i'm sure some one else knows what i'm talking about. the basic idea was you are an artificer so you can enchant your body to let your monk abilities actually be useful.

[Gwendol]

Goliath Lion spirit totem Barbarian 3/Monk 2/Dungeoncrasher fighter 2/X

Improved grapple (level 1 bonus)
Power attack (level 1)
Combat reflexes (level 2 bonus)
Improved natural weapon (level 3)
Flaw: Shaky (-2 ranged attack rolls)
Improved Bull Rush (flaw)
Knockback (Fighter bonus 1) (RoS) free bull rush on hit w. PA
Level 6? Leap attack maybe, eventually you will want shock trooper.

[docnessuno]

Str > Wis/Con > Dex > rest
Half giant (la 1, assuming no buyback)
Monk 4 (decisive strike variant)
Warrior 2
Warmind 10
Fist of the forest 3
Needs a way to get Knowledge (psionic) as a class skill (not that hard)
Thassalora feat to count War Mind levels as monk for most monk progressions.

Any 0 LA race (or 1-3 LA with buyback)
Wis > Str/Con > Dex/Cha > rest
Paladin 2
Monk 3
Ur-Priest 2
Fist of the forest 3
needs to refluff ur-priest as follower of a dead, nonevil, god
Serenity feat to key off paladin stuff on wisdom

[SaintRidley]

Another fun option - see if your DM will be kind enough to rule that Drunken Master actually give proficiency in improvised weapons and then see if you can weapon focus them (and if you have to be specific, weapon focus: monsters).

Half-Ogre Fighter/Monk/Drunken Master/Hulking Hurler (maybe throw some war hulk in if you need to).

Pick up what you need for DM and HH, and get to work pumpking your ability to grapple and your strength for throwing things. Now grab enemies and go bowling.

If you're feeling extra classy and there's only one monster around, check if you weigh less than your own medium load. Ask your DM if you can be completely insane and launch yourself at your opponent through Overburdened Heave. Self-Shotputting (and you should totally be able to get unarmed strike damage for throwing yourself).

I'm not sure most DMs would go along with it, but I sure would because that would be a fun character to have at the table.