Seeking opinions on this curse/riddle

[KinnetDynamon]

First, some background. I am DMing a 3.5 D&D campaign in a homebrew world. My group just slew a hag covey and their black dragon ally. I want to use this as an opportunity to have an NPC that travels with the group (as their primary healer) become less available to the PCs, especially in the thick of adventures. So, I came up with a dying curse (BoVD 28) that will cause the character (a druid//cleric) to become ethereal and nauseated when not in direct sunlight, which will basically mean that he will only be around to buff and heal before/after big adventures; their is a ranger in the group who is happy to take on the role of healer with wands, scrolls, etc.

So, the curse/riddle text is as follows:

Beyond the rays of your dear sun,
thy body real shall be undone.

Beflit of form will you then be,
This task you’ll do to become free.

Seek thee out three heroes pious,
Whose manners lie from ours bias.

A creature, too, of virtue bright,
Tinged blue in hue, with shocking might.

Their righteous deeds must you make end,
To rid thy plight, this curse transcend.

The rough outline of the intent is as follows (if anyone wants to take a whack at the riddle, avoid the spoiler): When not in direct sunlight, your body will become ethereal illusory and unable to stray more than a few feet from a given item (TBD later). To end this curse, you and/or your friends must seek out and slay 3 paladins (or lawful good clerics...or LG champions of some sort) and a very old or older bronze dragon. The group is a mix of chaotic neutral and true neutral characters, FYI.

I really was just curious about what others thought of this sort of thing (and for the metrical soundness of the curse, if anyone cares). Any suggestion or revisions? Anyone dealt with similar curses/riddles?

I have some of the more "technical" aspects of this worked out if anyone is curious (such as how so strong a curse could be pulled off, how spells like dimensional anchor might work, etc.), though any suggestions along those lines are also welcome.

[Onikani]

I'm not familiar with BoVD, but is there any reason that something simple like a Remove Curse or Break Enchantment won't work on this?

It's easy to keep that out of reach of low level players, but the kind that slay hags and dragons should have some access...

And some technical questions:
Don't these guys ever fight in the night? No random encounters at 2am? :smallbiggrin:
What about always dark places, again assuming a higher level - some levels of the abyss, the plane of shadow, or a good old dungeon crawl could keep them out of the light (and thus, keep the cleric useful).
I know your intent is to lessen his impact, i'm just trying to think of some things that may come up that may inhibit that...


Also, i do enjoy the idea of a bunch of neutrals having to slay LG's to break a curse. I'll bet your players will too. :D

[KinnetDynamon]

I'm not familiar with BoVD, but is there any reason that something simple like a Remove Curse or Break Enchantment won't work on this?

It's easy to keep that out of reach of low level players, but the kind that slay hags and dragons should have some access...

And some technical questions:
Don't these guys ever fight in the night? No random encounters at 2am? :smallbiggrin:
What about always dark places, again assuming a higher level - some levels of the abyss, the plane of shadow, or a good old dungeon crawl could keep them out of the light (and thus, keep the cleric useful).
I know your intent is to lessen his impact, i'm just trying to think of some things that may come up that may inhibit that...


Also, i do enjoy the idea of a bunch of neutrals having to slay LG's to break a curse. I'll bet your players will too. :D

Good questions. This is not a normal bestow curse spell. It cannot be lifted by remove curse or a similar spell. It can only be lifted by performing a task designated by the curser or by a wish or miracle spell.

They are level 6 gestalt characters, so planar travel is not yet a problem. However, I had fully intended that the spell would apply normally. If the character does not have natural sunlight on his skin, he is ethereal (and nauseated, for that matter). Thus, he cannot travel to another plane without a lot of magical intervention.

They do adventure at night and in dark places, which is the point. I wanted this character to have a reason to be unavailable most of the time but also a part of the group in terms of travel. I wanted the reason to be compelling and difficult to overcome. My players won't be miffed by it because it is an NPC that travels with them; however, I tire of having to play him all the time because my players have enough on their hands and do not want an NPC/cohort type to add to their burden.

Because of my players' playing style, our sessions tend to be one or two session dungeon crawls with little roleplaying in between. So, this druid//cleric is a touchstone/contact for them before and after difficult encounters.

[Grollub]

I like it, it sounds like a great idea

[Mystic Muse]

Frankly, it sounds more like you should just attempt to get rid of the character if you're tired of playing him. I know I'd be kinda annoyed at my DM if he was going to make me Kill 4 extremely good characters to lift the curse from my friend. Unless they know they can lift the curse with a wish or miracle spell, in which case, which course of action they take is their choice.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So wait, he gets one of the most powerful defenses in the game, and all he has to do is avoid sunlight? Doesn't sound like much of a curse to me... there's a dozen different ways to become immune to Nauseated.

[TriForce]

the curse itself looks fine, altough i agree with some here that the better idea is just to retire the npc in some way for 2 reasons:

1: the curse can be broken and then you will have to play the character again while you dont want to

2: if you dont want to play the npc, its far simpler to let him say "im needed elsewhere" then to give the players a quest where they will be forced to commit evil deeds.

while their alignments might be neutral ( and quite a few people who have a poor understanding of the alignment system will say that means they can do evil whenever it suits them) killing paladins and good aligned dragons is really really evil. it will get the players in trouble, and worse of all, by the way you are presenting it "do this to get your healer back" you are actually encouraging them to do it. since what you want tis for the healer to actually go away permanently so you dont have to play him, thats not a result you would want

[Person_Man]

I, for one, am totally against including a DM PC or party following NPC, because it detracts from the limelight for the players. Every round that he acts is a round that your players are not acting. If your encounters are so difficult that they require in-combat healing, then the solution is to make your combats less difficult. If they need out of combat healing, then just give the Ranger a few free wands from the get go. It's a lot simpler, and it lets the PC's control more of what happens.

[KinnetDynamon]

I like the feedback so far, including the replies that dislike the idea.

Concerning neutral characters, I don't think it means that they can do evil willy-nilly, especially since good societies will generally treat people better than evil ones, something that neutral characters would prefer. However, I do think that playing a neutral game does mean giving the party opportunities to perform evil acts, especially if they have been doing things that benefit the common good, like killing evil monsters and dragons. Neutral PCs should not be good-by-default in their actions and motives. But I don't want this thread to become a forum on the nature of neutral alignment because I will run this game with my current notions until I see that the players are not enjoying it.

I do agree that there are better ways to have this character bow out and that having DM PCs can be problematic, but it seemed necessary for my group, based on conversations I had had with them. They were all new to tabletop gaming but were experienced PC gamers and the like. I was using this character as an in-game tutorial of sorts. However, now that they all have more experience, I want to phase this character out, but my players will want it to be in a flashy and heavy-handed way because they like the color it adds to the game.

I will also say that I fully intended to have them suffer the consequences of taking out lawful good entities if they decide to do it, which I think they will, if we play that long.

Again, I appreciate all the feedback. It will help make my game better for my players and easier for me to run.

[Kol Korran]

ok, so some thoughts:
- i like the sound of the riddle, it has a very "old world" feel to it. however, the execution i think will hamper you/ people will try to find uses for the etheral companion (spying anyone?) and if not, you stil lneed to sort of play him. he is there and not there, he is stuck, and thus it's hard for your players to know how to treat him.

- i too think to get rid of the character. since you wanted a flashy style, how about one of these:

as they return to whomever gave them the quest, the cackle of the hags can be heard. suddenly, a dark lighting hits the Extra, turning him to stone/ marble/ the like. give whatever explanation/ curse you need, but enable it's execution only when they have leveled up considerably, and the guy won't be of much help no more.
the Extra turns to a purple cat! or a dumbeddown pseudo dragon! or some sort of animal/ magical beast. the party gains a pet (that THEY play and take care for) the same deal as how to break the curse as the statue.
if a pet is too much, the guy turns into an item- cloak, mask, amulet, rings and so on (choose something appropriate) it could be vaguely intelligent, and provide "empathic advice" on occasion.


- alternatively, if you are the one to plan ahead, the Extra can be contacted by someone (in person, a letter, or a Sending spell) and it has to go on his own quest (he can give minor clues or details about it to the characters, so they'll feel there IS a purpose), and later reappear at a tense moment, helping or being helped by the party (but by this point, the party has either leveled much more than he did, or he is too committed to his new organization/ group to follow them again.)

anyway, they are 6 characters. Gestalt. that's enough! they don't NEED a druid/ cleric.

i hope this helped, i love the ideas of these curses.
good luck!

[KinnetDynamon]

ok, so some thoughts:
- i like the sound of the riddle, it has a very "old world" feel to it. however, the execution i think will hamper you/ people will try to find uses for the etheral companion (spying anyone?) and if not, you stil lneed to sort of play him. he is there and not there, he is stuck, and thus it's hard for your players to know how to treat him.

- i too think to get rid of the character. since you wanted a flashy style, how about one of these:

as they return to whomever gave them the quest, the cackle of the hags can be heard. suddenly, a dark lighting hits the Extra, turning him to stone/ marble/ the like. give whatever explanation/ curse you need, but enable it's execution only when they have leveled up considerably, and the guy won't be of much help no more.
the Extra turns to a purple cat! or a dumbeddown pseudo dragon! or some sort of animal/ magical beast. the party gains a pet (that THEY play and take care for) the same deal as how to break the curse as the statue.
if a pet is too much, the guy turns into an item- cloak, mask, amulet, rings and so on (choose something appropriate) it could be vaguely intelligent, and provide "empathic advice" on occasion.


- alternatively, if you are the one to plan ahead, the Extra can be contacted by someone (in person, a letter, or a Sending spell) and it has to go on his own quest (he can give minor clues or details about it to the characters, so they'll feel there IS a purpose), and later reappear at a tense moment, helping or being helped by the party (but by this point, the party has either leveled much more than he did, or he is too committed to his new organization/ group to follow them again.)

anyway, they are 6 characters. Gestalt. that's enough! they don't NEED a druid/ cleric.

i hope this helped, i love the ideas of these curses.
good luck!

Thanks. I but some effort into writing this thing, even if it is a little "too much". My partner said it sounded like something from Charmed...go figure. But, my players love camp, as do I, so I am not ashamed of that.

I had considered having him morph into an animal of some sort, which I still may do if I decide that this is just too unwieldy. However, since he would also be nauseated while ethereal, he would seemingly make make a lousy scout, or at least an unwilling one.

However, reflecting on all this feedback, perhaps ethereal is a bad choice. Perhaps having him become a sort of illusory figment and/or tied to a magic item would be better, given the desire to have him still available to some degree. Perhaps his amulet of natural armor or the like. I appreciate the idea.

I should also clarify the party's composition. There is a wizard//sorcerer, two barbarian//fighters, and a ranger//rogue. No need to discuss proper gestalt builds here; those combos were chosen based on what the players wanted to do with their characters.