(3.5) What grafts are worth it or almost worth it?

[Coidzor]

So, the discussion earlier about graft-enabled transhumanism in D&D set me to thinking about the nature of grafts and how they're so often reviled due to the limitations/borkedness of the system surrounding them, commonly said to be mostly worthless with a few exceptions... But I've never really seen much mention of those exceptions. So I'm kind of curious.

So, yeah, what grafts do you think are worth it, and which ones do you wish weren't quite so kerfluffled or they'd be do-able?

[Igneel]

Can't say that it is worth it for all builds, but generally for a Dragonfire Adept build the Metabolic Graft [Races of the Dragon pg 129] is a personal favorite to get a RAW recharge breath for metabreath feats without wasting what few feats I get for a Dragon Magazine feat [Power Surge] or multiclassing into something that gives me another breath weapon.

[MeeposFire]

The strongarm graft from Faiths of Eberron allows you to use battlefists as any race. It is important for any monk based character or anybody else who wants to add an extra size increase to your fists or if you cannot use gauntlets for any reason (like the monk).

[Stallion]

I love the Digging Claws out of Lords of Madness. Burrowing through stone just leads to so many wonderful things, despite the problems you may have shaking someone's hand.

[Alleran]

Feathered Wings.

[Big Fau]

You know there's a Handbook right? (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12154)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Can't say that it is worth it for all builds, but generally for a Dragonfire Adept build the Metabolic Graft [Races of the Dragon pg 129] is a personal favorite to get a RAW recharge breath for metabreath feats without wasting what few feats I get for a Dragon Magazine feat [Power Surge] or multiclassing into something that gives me another breath weapon.

Power Surge gives you +1 damage per die to your breath attack, in return you must wait 1 round before using it again. That means you can still use it every round, at +1 damage per die, for the cost of a feat; definitely not a waste IMO. It would add +1 round to the wait if you're using a metabreath feat, but still worthwhile most of the time.

I've always been fond of the Extracting Tentacle from Underdark. It replaces any forelimb, so get Illithid Heritage: Flexible Limbs and Deepspawn and replace the two tentacles gained with Extracting Tentacles. It's actually a great boon for a grappler build, i.e. a Tashalatora Psychic Warrior.

[Coidzor]

You know there's a Handbook right? (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=12154)

Heh. Slipped right out of my mind, that, the moment I actually started to get interested in them again.

[MeeposFire]

Heh. Slipped right out of my mind, that, the moment I actually started to get interested in them again.

It seems the handbook is not complete yet so it may not answer all of your questions though it is a good start.

[Igneel]

Power Surge gives you +1 damage per die to your breath attack, in return you must wait 1 round before using it again. That means you can still use it every round, at +1 damage per die, for the cost of a feat; definitely not a waste IMO. It would add +1 round to the wait if you're using a metabreath feat, but still worthwhile most of the time.

I've always been fond of the Extracting Tentacle from Underdark. It replaces any forelimb, so get Illithid Heritage: Flexible Limbs and Deepspawn and replace the two tentacles gained with Extracting Tentacles. It's actually a great boon for a grappler build, i.e. a Tashalatora Psychic Warrior.

It is a waste if the average Dm doesn't allow Dragon/Dungeon magazine material. XP

[Alleine]

Power Surge gives you +1 damage per die to your breath attack, in return you must wait 1 round before using it again. That means you can still use it every round, at +1 damage per die, for the cost of a feat; definitely not a waste IMO. It would add +1 round to the wait if you're using a metabreath feat, but still worthwhile most of the time.

Wait, I thought the abilities listed in the feat were the result of 'using' it thus adding a +1 round recharge time. You're saying you choose one ability and it's a permanent addition to your breath weapon?

On topic, Heavy Legs(FoE) is pretty useful in some situations. Not for evey character, but if you're expecting a lot of fatigue *coughtrollbloodedcough* then it is pretty nice.
ALL of the undead arms that give a +4 inherent str are insane. I almost always get them for my str characters. Chances are we won't make it to the point where I'd be able/want to buy a +5 tome, so they are ridiculously cheap and incredibly effective. My favorite two are the str damage one and the negative level one.

I keep thinking how silly it would be to stack all the +NA grafts onto one creature. Technically I think it'd work. All different sources, and the wording is usually 'improve existing NA by X amount' so it's all untyped unless I'm horribly wrong. I still think it would be hilarious to have a creature sporting snake scales, dragon scales, bits of bone, fiend skin, beholder armor plating, etc., all jammed into every available open spot on his skin. :smallbiggrin:

[The Random NPC]

Wait, I thought the abilities listed in the feat were the result of 'using' it thus adding a +1 round recharge time. You're saying you choose one ability and it's a permanent addition to your breath weapon?


I believe he means that the wording indicates that you can use your breath weapon 1 round later, e.g. the start of your next turn.

[Wings of Peace]

Seconding Feathered Wings and Digging Claws.

[panaikhan]

I kinda like the elemental grafts.
I had two for my Warforged Juggernaut - the laser-beam eyes and the burning hands. Was looking for a good third, when the campaign ground to a halt.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Wait, I thought the abilities listed in the feat were the result of 'using' it thus adding a +1 round recharge time. You're saying you choose one ability and it's a permanent addition to your breath weapon?

I was saying that you could/should always choose to use the feat to add a one-round recharge time to get +1 damage per die, since you could still use your breath attack every round anyway. You could still use the feat to add +1 DC or +50% duration (Entangling Exhalation, Clinging Breath, etc.), but +1 damage per die is probably the best choice most of the time.

[Devmaar]

Silithar Bones grants a permanent untyped Con bonus

[Dusk Eclipse]

Silithar Bones grants a permanent untyped Con bonus

Silithar grafts are quite overpriced for their benefits; so I don't think they are worth it.

Some of the Plant grafts from MoE are pretty nice, the grappling vine is particularly lulz-worthy and cheap (arounf 8k and 2 HP IIRC).

[Claudius Maximus]

Buffeting Hands air elemental graft from Magic of Eberron makes a high-dex character practically immune to ranged attacks.

The Strong Leg from Fiend Folio offers a +2 inherent bonus to con for 8000 gp.

Not a graft per se, but the Arm of Nym from Defenders of the Faith is a magic robot arm that grants some very nice untyped bonuses.

[JaronK]

All the Demon ones are worth it, because there's a creature in Fiendish Codex 1 (the Sibriex) that you can summon via Greater Planar Binding that just gives up to three such grafts per day completely free of cost (and loves doing so). Make sure to protect yourself from its Form of Madness ability, but otherwise you should be good to go. You take a penalty to diplomacy and similar skills, but if you didn't care about those anyway, the grafts are AMAZING. One gives permanent See Invisibility. Another gives unlimited range sight in the dark. Another gives flight. It's actually quite wonderful!

JaronK

[mootoall]

If you're not averse to homebrew, Kellus has a base class called the Xenoalchemist that's really top notch, and is based almost entirely on grafts.

[Coidzor]

It seems the handbook is not complete yet so it may not answer all of your questions though it is a good start.

Indeed, rather annoying that. :/


If you're not averse to homebrew, Kellus has a base class called the Xenoalchemist that's really top notch, and is based almost entirely on grafts.

homebrew grafts as well or just the published ones? I am curious to see it though, anyone got a link? Have to run out the door or I'd go googley on it.

[mootoall]

It has its own graft system, precisely because the current one is so blah. Here's a linky to the class, so I don't have to explain :smalltongue: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205119

[Big Fau]

Indeed, rather annoying that. :/

Anyone who follows Sinfire's work knows that he updates about as frequently as VG Cats. To steal a line from YGOTAS.

[Optimator]

The Silithar grafts are expensive, but I still think they're worth it. The give good bonuses and are unobtrusive.

[Coidzor]

It has its own graft system, precisely because the current one is so blah. Here's a linky to the class, so I don't have to explain :smalltongue: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205119

Ahh, any other homebrew graft systems of interest that anyone is aware of?


Anyone who follows Sinfire's work knows that he updates about as frequently as VG Cats. To steal a line from YGOTAS.

I was wondering why so much of what I'd run into from him was incomplete.

[Big Fau]

I was wondering why so much of what I'd run into from him was incomplete.

His Incarnate Handbook is largely finished, as is his Crusader Handbook. His home brew is also fairly finished, and often looks very professional.

[Devmaar]

The Silithar grafts are expensive, but I still think they're worth it. The give good bonuses and are unobtrusive.

I agree, they should at least count as 'almost worth it'

[bimple_rouge]

I find that fast legs from the FF often come in handy.

[sreservoir]

there's also this list. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190350)

[Zaq]

I'm fond of most of the ones in Magic of Eberron, especially since they're actually pretty affordable (where else can you get a true gaze attack for that cheap? On a Fighter?) and tend to actually have unique and/or noticeable effects. I can't decide if I like the plant ones or the elemental ones better, but if I ever played a graft-heavy character, I'd beg my DM to conveniently overlook that "can only have grafts from one category" rule, since I really don't see the harm in mixing and matching.

Oh, and the Glaring Eye from RotD is pretty sweet as well. 10k for undispellable blindsense and a typeless bonus to Search/Spot? You could do a hell of a lot worse than that. That's useful for nearly anyone.

[Andion Isurand]

I've been brewing some New Silthilar Grafts (http://andionisurand.blogspot.com/2011/10/new-silthilar-grafts.html) if anyone wants to give an opinion on their price, or what have you.