[PF] Advanced Race Guide Playtest

[Ilorin Lorati]

...has been put on on the Paizo blog (http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcp6) today.

This iteration of the playtest seems to just have race creation rules. Looking through it I don't see any specific mention of level adjustments (thank the gods IMO), and there are a few discrepancies that have already been mentioned but it seems pretty solid otherwise so far.

I can't wait to see the improvements they make to the system before release.

[Curious]

It looks okay, so far. The only thing I'm disappointed about is the lack of a pounce racial ability, so I can give that to every race by RAW. :smallannoyed:

[Infernalbargain]

Well I found me a nice sorcerer build that's supposedly equivalent to a standard race.

Undead: 16
Small: 0
Slow: -1
Paragon (-2 str, -2 dex, -2 con, +4 cha): -2
Xenophobic languages: 0
Light Blindness: -2
Resurrection Vulnerability: -1
Total : 10 as per standard races.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Building a race specifically for a single build is never balanced, Infernal. :smallwink: In any case, Undead don't have Constitution scores so Paragon stat modifiers couldn't work as is. But hey, that's the point behind a playtest, to make sure those things get fixed.

Curious, maybe it's there under another name? As far as I'm aware, Pounce just allows you to charge and make a full attack in the same turn. If it's not, you can always submit feedback.

[Infernalbargain]

Building a race specifically for a single build is never balanced, Infernal. :smallwink: In any case, Undead don't have Constitution scores so Paragon stat modifiers couldn't work as is. But hey, that's the point behind a playtest, to make sure those things get fixed.

Curious, maybe it's there under another name? As far as I'm aware, Pounce just allows you to charge and make a full attack in the same turn. If it's not, you can always submit feedback.

Well I'd assume it'd work just like some creature becoming an undead. You simply just ignore the con score. After all how does an undead elf or dwarf work?

[Ilorin Lorati]

Templates aren't really in place to promote balanced PC or new monsters entirely, but to add an option for DMs who want variants of monsters. I've already asked the question on the forums, we'll see if there's a response.

[Infernalbargain]

Templates aren't really in place to promote balanced PC or new monsters entirely, but to add an option for DMs who want variants of monsters. I've already asked the question on the forums, we'll see if there's a response.

This isn't an issue that's solely from optimization or munckinry, if you cast animate dead on a dwarf what happens? It is quite obvious that this book is meant to be a means for players to play with more exotic races according to page 2, in addition to a GM tool.

[Starbuck_II]

I love that they intentionally over inflated Skilled (human trait) and under inflated Dwarven ones (1 point for each).

Hardy and Stubborn are the best traits ever.

Here is a better Duergar (without casting)
Redgar
Standard 10 rp
Humanoid (Dwarf)
Meduim sized: 0
Slow (-1)
Weakness: +2 Con, +2 Int, -4 Wis (-1)
Language: Standard(1)
Darkvision 60ft (2)
Defensive Training Greater (3)
Duergar Immunity (4)
Stonecunning (1)
Stubborn (1)
Total: 10.

+2 Dodge AC at all times, immuniy to poison/phantasm/Paralyze. I switched up Wisdom instead of Cha penalty because you are stubborn enough to avoid that (+2 will saves cancels wis penalty).

Swiftneblin
Standard 10 rp
Meduim sized: 0
Humanoid (gnome)
Med
Slow (-1)
Ability Score: Flexible: +2 Con, +2 Dex (2)
Language: Standard (1)
Darkvision 60ft (2)
Defensive Training, lesser: Humanoid (humans) (1)
Defensive Training Greater (3)
Svirfneblin magic (2)
Total: 10.

Med sized Gnomes that have +2 Dodge AC, +4 dodge vs humans (total +6 vs humans), normal magic of Svirfneblin, decent stats. Slow but you can wear armor without slowed like a Dwarf.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Dude, you're everywhere.

xD

[sreservoir]

goes nicely with a psionic sandwich!

[Anderlith]

I made a better human.

Medium
Standard Linguistics
+2 Str + 2 Int
Spell Resistance 11+level
Bonus Feat
& one 1st level spell 1/day (I chose Wrath from Adv Player's Guide)

I kind of envision them as an offshoot of the human, they are stronger & smarter & have a terrible fury, they were genetically/magically created by elitist wizards & magus to replace the old humans.

[N. Jolly]

For me this looks like an awesome way of doing humans from different areas, medical experiments, and all sorts of crazy things. While it seems like the balancing might need a bit of work, I love it in concept.

[The Gilded Duke]

Faecaster

Fey 1
Tiny 4 RP
Normal Speed 0
Paragon Modifiers (-2) +6 Cha, -2 Str, con
Standard Language (1rp)
Advanced Charisma (4rp)
Gnome Magic (1 rp)
Stalker (1 rp)

+8 stealth from size, stealth and perception as a class skill, +6 to a casting stat, bonus to illusion spells. Normal movement speed.

Defiant

Humanoid (Human, Halfling) 0
Medium 0
Normal Speed 0
Xenophobic Language 0
Standard Modifiers 0 (+2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma)
Halfling Luck 2 (+1 on all saving throws)
Hardy 1 (+2 on saves vs poison, spells etc)
Fortunate 4 (+2 on all saving throws)
Spell Resistance Greater 3 (11+HD SR)

Bonus on two saving through stats, +3 to saves, +5 against spells, and good spell resistance.

Turtlefolk

Humanoid (Reptilian)
Medium
Normal Speed 0
Xenophobic Languge 0 (common)
Paragon -2 (+4 Con, -2 int, wis, cha)
Slow Speed -1
Natural Armor 2 (+1 Natural Armor)
Improved Natural Armor 11 (+11 Natural Armor)


Can move normally in heavy armor, starts with a +12 natural armor bonus.

[Talentless]

To me it just seems like something to allow DM's more control over world building. Instead of being limited to what Paizo publishes, they've handed out their methods for putting races together, and lists of most, if not all the options, and telling people to go nuts.

And that is freaking awesome.:smallbiggrin:

And as an added bonus, this allows a rebalance of the races for DMs that want it, so that the best race for anything beyond specific archetype builds (and summoners) isn't always human.

[rwald]

Well I found me a nice sorcerer build that's supposedly equivalent to a standard race.

Undead: 16
Small: 0
Slow: -1
Paragon (-2 str, -2 dex, -2 con, +4 cha): -2
Xenophobic languages: 0
Light Blindness: -2
Resurrection Vulnerability: -1
Total : 10 as per standard races.

Actually, per RAW you can't make this as a standard power level race; you're not allowed to pick a type with a point cost higher than your power level's max RP points, even if you "buy it off" with negative RP traits later. Sorry.

You can still grab Paragon Abilities (+4 Cha, -2 all physical) and combine it with other types and traits, though.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Oh, that's right.
There is the half-undead type for PCs who want the flavor though.

[Aethir]

Faecaster

Fey 1
Tiny 4 RP
Normal Speed 0
Paragon Modifiers (-2) +6 Cha, -2 Str, con
Standard Language (1rp)
Advanced Charisma (4rp)
Gnome Magic (1 rp)
Stalker (1 rp)



Standard races cannot take Advanced abilities, you'll need to reassign 4 of those points I'm afraid.

[Ilorin Lorati]

Standard races cannot take Advanced abilities, you'll need to reassign 4 of those points I'm afraid.

He should also have -4 Str. -2 from Paragon and -2 from tiny.

[CTrees]

Thoughts, in rough recreation of my read-through of the playtest rules:
-Don't care for them, overall. Just don't like the feel of the rules. It's just begging for minmaxing on a ridiculous, new level
-Wouldn't allow players to use them to come up with custom races.
-If I used these rules, as a DM, to make one or more races found in my campaign, I'd likely allow my players to use that races, if it was balanced with the core races
-The example of existing races are interesting.
-Finally, something showing "Drow Noble is not for players!"
-Surprised Tengu works out to 13pts. Doesn't seem better than the core races, just more flavorful
-With no racial HD, Lizardfolk is actually pretty awesome for some classes (sitting even at 10pts and all). I always liked the race, more than it deserved.
-OMGOMGOMG I need to make a Githyanki that's balanced for play in Pathfinder with no level adjustment and convince my DM to let me use it and it'll be a Magus because Githyanki were the originators of the gish and it's only right and omgomgomg I need to figure out how to work in the backstory...
-Wow, I turned into a screaming tween girl there for a bit. *ahem* I always forget how much I've wanted to play a gith in a campaign.

[stack]

Changelings are trivial easy to build.

+0 Humanoid
+0 Medium
+0 normal speed
+2 flexible modifiers (CHA +2, Dex +2)
+2 linguist array
+6 Change shape

= 10 points

I do think the values of some abilities look fudged to make sure the core races come out to 10.

[N. Jolly]

Changelings are trivial easy to build.

+0 Humanoid
+0 Medium
+0 normal speed
+2 flexible modifiers (CHA +2, Dex +2)
+2 linguist array
+6 Change shape

= 10 points

I do think the values of some abilities look fudged to make sure the core races come out to 10.

Yeah, but you can't build the PF changeling which kind of sucks.

Although I do agree with you about the core races, some of the abilities seem oddly costed to make them fit into the exact 10 mold.

[Ilorin Lorati]

There are people talking about that on the Paizo playtest boards, so we're not the only ones to have noticed it.

Hopefully they'll fix it.

[stack]

It would be nice if they at least made claws a standard option. I suspect they don't want everyone stacking up tons of natural attacks with the way they work in PF, but still. Would be nice to have wings as standard too, but I understand not wanting to hand out fly speeds to every level 1 custom race.

[Mockingbird]

Sigh.. They still haven't made Changeling an official race. :L

[Blisstake]

Hmm, I'm curious if this is intended for GMs who want to add their own custom races to the world, or for players who want to make races that fit their character concept perfectly. I'm suspecting it was intended for the former, but will be most used by the latter.

Of course, as a GM, I'd be very suspicious of any custom-race submitted characters.

[Anarchy_Kanya]

I would use it as a GM-only option.

[Prime32]

Sigh.. They still haven't made Changeling an official race. :LI made them. (http://pf-eberron.wikidot.com/races:changeling) <_<

[Grendus]

I like it, but I do think that allowing the players to use it will be a bad idea. Not only will you end up with a bunch of min-maxed characters, but you're going to end up with a bunch of really mismatched races in the party that won't necessarily fit the world (half-catgirls in a world that doesn't even have full catgirls, for example). It's a great DM guideline for creating new races, but I wouldn't let my players touch it with a ten foot pole.

[CTrees]

On careful consideration and examination, I can't DMing and allowing my players to use these rules. Just, flat ban, as with most 3rd party material (my exception is Psionics Unleashed). However, if one wanted to, say, use the lizardfolk or ogre conversions in those rules, to play that race? Or came up with a reasonable interpretation, using those rules, of some other existing race (say, drider, ettin, yuan-ti, etc.), and worked with me to figure out the balance? I'd allow that. It seems reasonable, and doesn't lead to the worst forseable abuses.

Alternatively, if one of my players was trying to be munchkiny with a custom race, I could see allowing it, but only if I got to choose his class :belkar:

[Curious]

Funnily enough, if I were allowing this in my game, I would probably let my players have free reign on how they design their race. I would just roll their racial abilities into their characters abilities, so the players could say that they were an elf, but he has gained the ability to shapeshift through some arcane misshape. This system allows them more control over the abilities of their characters, which is always a good thing.

[Anderlith]

Can anyone help me make a Tibbit? I always thought they were an underappreciated race. I don't know the best way to do the tabby cat shift.

[Prime32]

I notice they made DR/cold iron cheaper than DR/magic. Whuh?

So is using a monstrous race going to cost your lv1 feat?

[Psyren]

Has anyone made Warforged yet? How about Kalashtar?

[tyckspoon]

I notice they made DR/cold iron cheaper than DR/magic. Whuh?


DR/(inexpensive material) is nominally cheaper to counter than DR/(magic costs moniez yo.) Which neglects the fact that the only real purpose of a Cold Iron weapon is to counter that specific DR, while magic weapons have significant benefits beyond that and so will be encountered much more often, not to mention all the counts-as-magic monsters.

[CTrees]

I notice they made DR/cold iron cheaper than DR/magic. Whuh?

Well, DR/Cold Iron is only available at DR5 - more points can't be spent to upgrade to DR10. Also, it's limited to Fey only, whereas DR/magic does not have that restriction. Still ridiculous, but it's *slightly* more excusable.

[Curious]

Has anyone made Warforged yet? How about Kalashtar?

I think the closest you can get to making warforged is the half-construct RP, reflavored as being an actual construct.

[Ilorin Lorati]

I think the closest you can get to making warforged is the half-construct RP, reflavored as being an actual construct.

This is, of course, unless you want to play a game with 30 point monster races and take the full construct template.

[Ravens_cry]

Is there an aspect that lets quadruped aspect creature use mounted combat feats as if mounted? T'would be perfect for a centaur.
I wish quadrupeds didn't have to be Large as a requirement.