Thinking about Eberron, unsure if can be bothered

[shadow_archmagi]

So, on one hand, Eberron seems like a cool place. On the other hand, I'm not sure I really have the time or willpower to research a setting thoroughly enough to run a game in it.

What books will I really want to read, as a DM?

Are there any really cool (Preferably free, but not necessarily) Eberron modules so I can get started BEFORE I actually have everything memorized?

[Keld Denar]

Posting from my phone, so I can't get you the link, but Google "1001 things the crew of the forgotten freedom are not allowed to do". Gives you some of the more notable stereotypes in the getting. Also, darned funny!

[Vortling]

Posting from my phone, so I can't get you the link, but Google "1001 things the crew of the forgotten freedom are not allowed to do". Gives you some of the more notable stereotypes in the getting. Also, darned funny!

You mean this? (http://wiki.rpg.net/index.php/1001_and_more_Things_that_the_worst_party_in_Eberr on_is_forbidden_from_doing)

[Big Fau]

So, on one hand, Eberron seems like a cool place. On the other hand, I'm not sure I really have the time or willpower to research a setting thoroughly enough to run a game in it.

What books will I really want to read, as a DM?

Are there any really cool (Preferably free, but not necessarily) Eberron modules so I can get started BEFORE I actually have everything memorized?

From personal experience:

ECS
Secrets of Sarlona
Secrets of Xen'Drik
Sharn, City of Towers
Races of Eberron
Dragonmarked
Forge of War

Those cover the major facts you need for a post-war Eberron, and should give you some grounds for the world itself.


As for modules, the only thing I can tell you is that Voyage of the Golden Dragon is fairly poorly written.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Check out the RhoD handbook floating somewhere in these boards. It has an adaption section for Eberron.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Or if you don't mind Spoilers concerning RHoD, AslanCross Campaign Journal (Set in Eberron) is a pretty good read for both the Module and the Campaign setting as he meshed them incredibly well.

Here is a link if you are interested (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110022)

[Kol Korran]

From personal experience:

ECS
Secrets of Sarlona
Secrets of Xen'Drik
Sharn, City of Towers
Races of Eberron
Dragonmarked
Forge of War

Those cover the major facts you need for a post-war Eberron, and should give you some grounds for the world itself.


those are a lot of books, and not really needed for a beginner DM to the setting. when i started it was with the ECS only, and i expanded from there. everything else add a bit of info about different stuff.

i'd say go with that, read it, and play with it for awhile, once you learn a bit more you could expand according to your intereets:
General good for lots:
- races of Eberron: really well written, expans mostly on the 4 unique races (and add options for them), but does a nice job aboutthe "regular" races and their place in the setting.

- Faiths of Eberron: one of the best books ever written, but is mostly about fluff. gives a whole new life to the religions. nice, but far from compulsory.

- Dragonmarked: if you want to expand the "mega corporations" aspect of the game. you can easily do without it. not that well written IMO

- Magic of Eberron: moslty mechanical options. some say it's nice, some say (including me) that it's overpowered. doesn't touch much on fluff, nearly all crunch.

- Explorer's guide to Eberron + player's guide to Eberron: DON'T get these books- if you'll scour them you might find some gems, but mostly they are useless. a WoTC money scam

-Dragons of Eberron: actually a fun book, but unnecessary if you're not going to incorporate many dragons in the campaign. the continent of dragon is quite nicely written.

regional books
Xen'dric, Sarlona and Sharn city of towers are nice books, but for their own locations. you ran your campaign wholly in Khorvaire (the main continent) if you want, and never think of those books. (with the exception of Sharn, but you can avoid it as well. hell of a complicated city to run!) they are however quite well written, with some good ideas. when you're ready to expand...

Esoteric
Forge of War- the book ws created due to a popular demand to explore the 100 year war so important in the recent campaign past. very well done IMO, but no necessary unless you plan to run a campaign at that time.

so in short- ECS, the rest when you want to. i ran my first campaign from levels 1-9 with the ECS alone and it was splendid. my current campaign uses a few more sources, but not a lot, and as inspiration givers, not absolute laws.

oh right! modules!
there is a short set of modules going by:
- the forgotten forge (the adventure is in the ECS)
- shadows of the last war . quite ok, a few slight bugs
- whispers of the vampire blade (intense scenes, but quite railroady)
- Grasp of the emerald claw (finishing this arc. a VERY good module i though. a few deadly encounters, but that's cool
these span up to about level 5? 6? don't remember.

there is also a long module- eyes of the lich queen (levels 5-9? 10?) which is quite good, with fun encounters and set ups. it has a few bugs, but not much, and most everything is included.

i hope this helped,
Kol.

[Bloodgruve]

I would have to agree that the ECS is really all you need to get started.

I love Sharn so I'll suggest that book too.

All the other books are great but your players wont have a chance to take everything in.

I would suggest going through the ECS and start messing with one of the numerous ideas for a campaign arc and then pick up the right books. If you need help finding it I'm sure the guys on these forums will point you in the right direction.

I just recently completed my Eberron collection but have not had a chance to read them yet so I apologize for the lack of info.

GL
Blood~

[Person_Man]

Eberron is basically the Ninja Pirate Zombie Robot (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NinjaPirateZombieRobot) D&D setting. Imagine if J.K. Rowling decided to rewrite Dune while watching Nickelodeon. That's Eberron.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Eberron is basically the Ninja Pirate Zombie Robot (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NinjaPirateZombieRobot) D&D setting. Imagine if J.K. Rowling decided to rewrite Dune while watching Nickelodeon. That's Eberron.

And it is Awesome :smallbiggrin:

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/Dusk_eclipse/OrcvsElfEberron-1.jpg

[kamikasei]

Important question: who do you see yourself running a game for? If your expected group aren't themselves already familiar with Eberron then you don't need to load up on that much setting info - in fact, getting into the mood(s) and establishing the atmosphere and tone for a given area or faction will probably be more important than knowing everything that's been published about it by Wizards.

[Psyren]

One word: Robots. That was all they needed to sell me on Eberron :smallbiggrin:

(Two more words: distant gods)

[Airanath]

And it is Awesome :smallbiggrin:

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt139/Dusk_eclipse/OrcvsElfEberron-1.jpg

One of my favorite aspect of Eberron ^^
Nothing is what it seems. That and all the Goblinoid Powa in the old days.

I started with just the ECS and did fine back in the day(Eberron had been just released), everything else was nice to add and in depth content, but you just NEED that, unless you want to put all the spices you can in the world (knowing all the details about the culture and mannerism of a citzen of each of the five nations for instances, as well as the taboos of each nation, their sayings and so on MAY make a game flavorful, but may also stereotype it to much ["Hey that guy said XXXX, obviously he is a Karnathi!"]0

[ThiefInTheNight]

- Dragonmarked: if you want to expand the "mega corporations" aspect of the game. you can easily do without it. not that well written IMO
Which is a shame, since the Dragonmarked Houses are by-far the coolest part of Eberron.


- Magic of Eberron: moslty mechanical options. some say it's nice, some say (including me) that it's overpowered. doesn't touch much on fluff, nearly all crunch.
What on earth is overpowered in there? Psionic Artificer? Only if you use the Magic Item Compendium change, and even then... it's only incrementally more powerful than the Artificer. Otherwise... Daelkyr Half-bloods are really cool, Alchemist Savant's a neat PrC, and the Grafts are kinda cool... but that's pretty much it.

[Big Fau]

Which is a shame, since the Dragonmarked Houses are by-far the coolest part of Eberron.


What on earth is overpowered in there? Psionic Artificer? Only if you use the Magic Item Compendium change, and even then... it's only incrementally more powerful than the Artificer. Otherwise... Daelkyr Half-bloods are really cool, Alchemist Savant's a neat PrC, and the Grafts are kinda cool... but that's pretty much it.

PsiArti is it. And even then, all the DM has to do is say "no", seeing as it's a variant just like the Erudite.

[Andorax]

FWIW:

Dungeon issues 113 (1st), 115 (7th), 117 (4th) 129 (5th), 133 (5th), 136 (4th), 143 (5) and 123-125 (6-8 3-parter) all had Eberron adventures as well. I especially like the 3-part "Shards of Eberron" adventure.

[shadow_archmagi]

Important question: who do you see yourself running a game for? If your expected group aren't themselves already familiar with Eberron then you don't need to load up on that much setting info - in fact, getting into the mood(s) and establishing the atmosphere and tone for a given area or faction will probably be more important than knowing everything that's been published about it by Wizards.

Well, if I want to get the mood and atmosphere just right, I need to memorize all the spices forever.

[GoatBoy]

The best part of Eberron is that it's so easy to get into. You don't need to be familiar with twenty years of novels which are all considered canon (FR, looking at you) and there are no wacky new mechanics to throw things for a loop. It's really just everything in D&D rearranged to make it more interesting.

And while Explorer's Handbook was pretty lame as far as content, I can't bring myself to think ill of a source which contains a prestige class with a feature "get paid for giving university lecture."

Player's Guide to Eberron has some great stuff, but is a pain in the ass to use since its organized by fluff and not crunch (all feats/PrC's/items should be in the same place, but they're not. ARG).

[Dusk Eclipse]

The best part of Eberron is that it's so easy to get into. You don't need to be familiar with twenty years of novels which are all considered canon (FR, looking at you) and there are no wacky new mechanics to throw things for a loop. It's really just everything in D&D rearranged to make it more interesting.

And while Explorer's Handbook was pretty lame as far as content, I can't bring myself to think ill of a source which contains a prestige class with a feature "get paid for giving university lecture."

Player's Guide to Eberron has some great stuff, but is a pain in the ass to use since its organized by fluff and not crunch (all feats/PrC's/items should be in the same place, but they're not. ARG).

To be honest I like more the Capstone that is essentially "You are the mortal enemy of the most dangerous faction in Eberron (The Dragons) oh and even if they don't usually leave their continent, they have spies and contacts everywhere... have fun"

[The_Snark]

People have already said you don't need much to run a game, but there is a lot of available material out there if you want it, so I'll just add my two cents about the books I have:

The Eberron Campaign Setting is pretty much mandatory, obviously. It's not a bad source, but it could be better organized and it's a little sparse on detail in some places. Still, it gives you enough that you can get a feel for a place and make up the details from there; all the later fluff books just expand on it and give you more inspiration, with varying degrees of success.

The Player's Guide to Eberron is also handy. It's a mostly-fluff book with a few feats, spells, prestige classes and so on scattered through the book; the real value is that it takes a lot of things that only got a paragraph or two in the core book and gives them a page or two. It won't give you oodles of detail about anything, and the content ranges from nifty to uninspired, but it comes in handy simply because it talks about so many topics.

Faiths of Eberron is also mostly fluff, but it's more specialized. If you're not interested in learning more about Eberron's religions and druidic cults you won't have much use for it. If you are, I definitely recommend it - it has a lot of interesting stuff. (Very handy source when playing a cleric.)

Dragonmarked provides more information on the dragonmarked houses. I wasn't disappointed, but wasn't terribly impressed either. If you're centering your campaign around one or more of the Houses, or playing a dragonmarked scion, then the book is handy because it expands on how each of the houses is organized.

Five Nations is yet another installment in the line of mostly-fluff books focused on a specific topic, but unlike Faiths of Eberron it's relevant to the majority of games. It's not my favorite but I like it all right; it does a good job of fleshing out the nations a bit more. (Just don't feel constrained by the national stereotypes.)

Races of Eberron is decent if you want to know more about the Eberron-specific races (changelings, kalashtar, shifters, warforged). Personally, I've never gotten all that much out of it; the mechanical material is unexciting, and while the fluff isn't bad it's not that imaginative either.

Magic of Eberron breaks the trend by being mostly crunch. You can pick it up if that appeals to you, I guess; it's not stellar but it's not horrible either.

Secrets of Sarlona is one of my favorites. It's a great source if you're planning on running a game set in Sarlona, or if you're making heavy use of the Inspired and the Dreaming Dark in your game. Both could be very interesting; Riedra has a very Brave New World/1984 u/dystopia feel. However, if you're not planning on delving into Riedra and the Inspired—and most campaigns don't—than you don't need this one. It has a little material on kalashtar culture and some psionic stuff, but nothing you'll really miss.

Secrets of Xen'drik is handy if you're planning on sending your players to Xen'drik. The book didn't excite my imagination the way Secrets of Sarlona did, but Xen'drik is fun for pulpy archaeology-adventure and the book is perfectly passable. If not going to Xen'drik, give this one a pass.

City of Stormreach is also handy if you're going to Xen'drik, specifically if you're going to be spending a lot of time in Stormreach (the main port city on the continent). It's a little more specialized than Secrets of Xen'drik, but I like it a bit more.

The Explorer's Handbook should in theory also be useful for Xen'drik games, but I confess I've never bothered to look at it that much. Don't recall it being very exciting.

Sharn, City of Towers, is yet another location-based sourcebook. It's a good one, and Sharn is a popular setting. If you don't intend to go there it's obviously not useful, but Sharn is more centrally located than (say) Sarlona and therefore more likely to come up.

Lastly, The Forge of War is a rather specialized book that gives you lots of detail on the Last War. If you're running a historical campaign, or if you want to include lots of historical detail (maybe you're playing a veteran, or you're running a political intrigue game and need lots of petty grudges and old vendettas), it's solid. Otherwise it's probably kind of extraneous. I've never gotten all that much use out of it.
But really, your most valuable sources probably won't be D&D-related at all. If you're running a game about explorers in Xen'drik, you'll want to revisit Indiana Jones and pulpy adventure fiction. If you're running a game about investigatives in Sharn, watch some noir fims. If you'e playing in Sarlona, read Brave New World. If you're focusing on the political interplay between the Five Nations, read up on a bit of post WWI history. Eberron is basically the magpie of D&D settings: it steals shiny things from everybody else. Crib shamelessly!

[ThiefInTheNight]

But really, your most valuable sources probably won't be D&D-related at all. If you're running a game about explorers in Xen'drik, you'll want to revisit Indiana Jones and pulpy adventure fiction. If you're running a game about investigatives in Sharn, watch some noir fims. If you'e playing in Sarlona, read Brave New World. If you're focusing on the political interplay between the Five Nations, read up on a bit of post WWI history. Eberron is basically the magpie of D&D settings: it steals shiny things from everybody else. Crib shamelessly!
Best advice in the thread.

[Keld Denar]

I've played in Eberron games that started in media res during a HALO drop from an airship flying high over a Karnathi no-fly zone to recover a lost agent employed by someone named the FURY as well as an Eberronized "3:10 to Wroat". Epic times.

[Eldan]

Yeah, you can easily rip off plots from all over, and still make them distinctly Eberron. I knew a DM who very successfully ripped of about five Tintin stories. Breland Jones is an old favourite. And I know more than one group who got involved in the case of the Riedrese Falcon.

[shadow_archmagi]

Started reading the ECS.


http://i.imgur.com/aF0jj.png

http://i.imgur.com/TlPVv.png

http://i.imgur.com/EBiO0.png

http://i.imgur.com/REwZb.png
MY DECISION IS MADE

[Big Fau]

Yeah, halflings are all kinds of badass in Eberron.

[shadow_archmagi]

So, wait-

The Korran Chronicles hires adventurers for the purpose of having adventures? Is this very early reality TV?

[Big Fau]

So, wait-

The Korran Chronicles hires adventurers for the purpose of having adventures? Is this very early reality TV?

More like they are making a Let's Play.


Call it justification for the DM to do a campaign journal.

[Keld Denar]

Sure. Just sign this waiver over here that waives you rights to a saving throw against Scrying, and this other waiver to indemnify Karnnathi Shores(home of the GLT adventuring lifestyle) in the event that you are killed, maimed, dismembered, disfigured, energy drained, paralyzed, polymorphed, nausiated, possessed by Quori, petrified, poisoned, or exposed to death magic of any sort.

Yea, you could totally run SmashTV in Eberron, and nobody would bat an eyelash.

[Prime32]

Yeah, halflings are all kinds of badass in Eberron.And gnomes are an entire race of Chessmasters (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheChessmaster).

[shadow_archmagi]

More like they are making a Let's Play.


Call it justification for the DM to do a campaign journal.

Wait, what? Why wouldn't you just have the players each keep a different campaign journal, so that afterwards you can see the contrasts as different people will have utterly different viewpoints and schemes?

[darksolitaire]

I've played in Eberron games that started in media res during a HALO drop from an airship flying high over a Karnathi no-fly zone to recover a lost agent employed by someone named the FURY as well as an Eberronized "3:10 to Wroat". Epic times.

...and now I want to add airship to my game just so that I can drop players from it à la helljumpers. :smallbiggrin:

[Elfinor]

On a related note, what do people think about the action point system, and what do you think would make a decent replacement for the extra action points (assuming they're not in use) gained from Dragonmarked Heir, Heir of Siberys etc.? I was thinking a luck feat or +1 ability bonus?

[shadow_archmagi]

On a related note, what do people think about the action point system, and what do you think would make a decent replacement for the extra action points (assuming they're not in use) gained from Dragonmarked Heir, Heir of Siberys etc.? I was thinking a luck feat or +1 ability bonus?

I think the AP system looks just fine. I don't think it's a particularly big deal to include it; it's pretty straightforward, and it gives the players something extra to fiddle around with.

[Kol Korran]

On a related note, what do people think about the action point system, and what do you think would make a decent replacement for the extra action points (assuming they're not in use) gained from Dragonmarked Heir, Heir of Siberys etc.? I was thinking a luck feat or +1 ability bonus?

I'm using the action point system in my current campaign, and hereare my thoughts:

- on the whole, the concept is solid, where it goes wrong however is in two things- they get more each second level and it gets better (level 7 or 8? when you roll more dice and choose the best): the thing is, action points are might powerful as they are. my playersmostly save them for saving throws or "save or suck" effects (not falling of a cliff and so on). and at the start that was fine. but now (level 10) they got so much that when they get to a major encounter they just SPAM it. which makes for an almost assured win...

i'd suggest having a fixed number of action points per level (5 sounds fine), and that they don't get improved by level.
i really like the "Hero points" system by pathfinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/hero-points) (except for the "retrieving spell" and "fighter casting spells" kind of stuff) it is quite neat. i think that for my next game i'll model something between the Eberron system and that.

as to extra action points due to prestige class or feats? a luck feat could do the work, or you couldjust tell the player they have "X 1d6 additions" per level to his D20s, no?

[Basket Burner]

The Action Point system is fine, provided that you add one additional line to it:

If you roll a natural 1 on an attack roll or saving throw, you can use an AP to reroll that attack or save.

That is where most of the help is needed, and yet APs do not cover this as adding 1d6 to a natural 1 is still an automatic failure.

[shadow_archmagi]

If your players are finding they have a very clear indication of when they'll need to use action points, and saving up for those occasions, the obvious solution is to fill your campaign with surprisingly difficult fights.

[Mockingbird]

Eberron has the best races evar. :p

[Kol Korran]

If your players are finding they have a very clear indication of when they'll need to use action points, and saving up for those occasions, the obvious solution is to fill your campaign with surprisingly difficult fights.

oh, i have tried that, but the players seem to get when the tough fights are. and still it doesn't invalidate my approach. going up levels the fights get harder, but are scaled per level (at least in Theory), there is no reason why action points should scale as well. it just screws up the balance even more.

[Elfinor]

i'd suggest having a fixed number of action points per level (5 sounds fine), and that they don't get improved by level.
i really like the "Hero points" system by pathfinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/hero-points) (except for the "retrieving spell" and "fighter casting spells" kind of stuff) it is quite neat. i think that for my next game i'll model something between the Eberron system and that.

as to extra action points due to prestige class or feats? a luck feat could do the work, or you couldjust tell the player they have "X 1d6 additions" per level to his D20s, no?

I may very well end up combining those systems as well - I was thinking of imposing an E6-inspired level cap (probably 12-15ish, though) and/or slowing level progression, so the 'Hero Point' system works better in that sense.


If your players are finding they have a very clear indication of when they'll need to use action points, and saving up for those occasions, the obvious solution is to fill your campaign with surprisingly difficult fights.

You are a wicked, wicked man :belkar:
It would very much add to the 'overcoming impossible odds' vibe though, sounds good.

Since the consensus seems to be that it works/would work well, I'll probably keep them with some tweaks then.

Add one additional line to it:

If you roll a natural 1 on an attack roll or saving throw, you can use an AP to reroll that attack or save.


I always thought they'd also negate an auto-fail on a natural one. It would seem kinda pointless otherwise - but I'll definitely add it to the campaign notes in case the players think otherwise.

Thanks for the ideas.

And uh... sorry for semi-sidetracking your thread shadow_archmagi :smalleek:

[HunterOfJello]

I've been DMing in an eberron game or a while and the only large drawback i've encountered in the setting is that it's difficult to DM for once characters get into high levels. The players will either be able to quickly ruin/ conquer all of Khorvaire or not have much to do anymore.

Forgotten Realms has a lot more to do in it in terms of evil organizations and crazy powers running around somewhere to go deal with than Eberron does.

[Kol Korran]

I've been DMing in an eberron game or a while and the only large drawback i've encountered in the setting is that it's difficult to DM for once characters get into high levels. The players will either be able to quickly ruin/ conquer all of Khorvaire or not have much to do anymore.


i haven't played at these high levels, but i may soon (depending on how my plaers want to continue at the end of this campaign). however, i think that once you reach the "high" levels in Eberron (10/12 +?) they can face a few major opponents, mainly the BIG 3:
Lords of Dust (in the demon wastes and the planes)
Daelkyr (underdark and possibly Xoriat itself)
the Dreaming dark and Quori (starting with Sarlona, ending in nightmares)

or, if you wish (and is my plan if the players say go), you can have the players meet the REAL power in Eberron- the dragon nation of Argonessen.
the book "dragons of Eberron" describes it quite well, and it is just custom built for high level and even epic adventures.
(coem my players... come! he he he! :smallamused:)

[Basket Burner]

I always thought they'd also negate an auto-fail on a natural one. It would seem kinda pointless otherwise - but I'll definitely add it to the campaign notes in case the players think otherwise.

Thanks for the ideas.

And uh... sorry for semi-sidetracking your thread shadow_archmagi :smalleek:

By default they don't. It's a bonus of 1-6. Yet no matter what or how many bonuses you have, if the D20 says 1 you lose. I mention this mostly because mid and particularly high level attacks only miss on a 1, and in any decent party saves are only failed on a 1 as well for reasons that should be obvious.

[Gnorman]

I've played in Eberron games that started in media res during a HALO drop from an airship flying high over a Karnathi no-fly zone to recover a lost agent employed by someone named the FURY as well as an Eberronized "3:10 to Wroat". Epic times.

Man, that was a good game. Out of all the PbPs I've been in that have gone under, I miss that one the most. Because it's friggin' Eberron, and therefore awesome.

Also: best treatment of gnomes in D&D history.

[Mad Gene Vane]

I'm playing in an Eberron campaign now. To get started, you probably don't need a lot of books.

I think the additional books help give some depth to the setting and really let you role play, because there are things characters may be aware of as part of their training / upbringing. EDIT: The campaign setting has been designed to have 10's of thousands of years of history behind it, when your characters get going, so some background knowledge would help flesh characters out.

The only downside to attempting to tackle all the books is information overload. For whatever reason, I find reading the average player's handbook or associated type book, about as exhilarating as reading the tax code, which made going through the Five Nations, Races of Eberron, etc. a long hard slog.

The one thing to keep in mind is Eberron stands a lot of traditional D&D on its head. Dragons no longer have alignments based on color and luster. Orcs and goblins don't have to be evil. Those are some different concepts that took me some time to get my head wrapped around, when I was thinking up a character.

[shadow_archmagi]

Orcs and goblins don't have to be evil.


Actually, as far as I can tell, it isn't just that they aren't evil, but that the Orcs are Usually Proud Warrior Race Guys, with the majority of them being devoted to fighting unspeakable horrors and demons, and only a small percentage becoming unspeakable horrors or demons.

Goblins are just a race of small, spineless creatures who can't really achieve evil or good because they get whipped if they speak up.

Instead of orcs, we have Rakajharnanas who are eternally evil cat people?

[Eldan]

or, if you wish (and is my plan if the players say go), you can have the players meet the REAL power in Eberron- the dragon nation of Argonessen.
the book "dragons of Eberron" describes it quite well, and it is just custom built for high level and even epic adventures.
(coem my players... come! he he he! :smallamused:)

Or the other REAL power, the Undying Court of Shae Mordai.

Of course, they suffer from an extreme case of Elf Syndrome.
"Ooh, we are so old and wise and powerful. We are like undead, but without the whole evil and blood of the living business. And we are so wise and powerful, we are gods now."

[shadow_archmagi]

Or the other REAL power, the Undying Court of Shae Mordai.

Of course, they suffer from an extreme case of Elf Syndrome.
"Ooh, we are so old and wise and powerful. We are like undead, but without the whole evil and blood of the living business. And we are so wise and powerful, we are gods now."

Which is why they're great! Dragons, ultimately, are sort of a moral gray area; they have their own agenda, and it doesn't seem to be evil or good. The Deathless, however, are elves and zombies! You can go to town on them with no moral repercussions!

[Hiro Protagonest]

Goblins are just a race of small, spineless creatures who can't really achieve evil or good because they get whipped if they speak up.

...I'm pretty sure he was talking about goblinoids in general.

[Eldan]

...I'm pretty sure he was talking about goblinoids in general.

The Eberron Hobbos would object to that kind of classification, yeah.

[Kol Korran]

Goblins are just a race of small, spineless creatures who can't really achieve evil or good because they get whipped if they speak up.



well, there are hreeo basic types of Gobbos in Eberron- those you mentioned who are sort of groveling (less or more) second classs citizens of the five nations.

and then there is the new nation of Darguu, who not only carved it'sown little space out of Cyre' bottom, but withstood the brelish assaults, and has a sizeable border with the Mournland. these guys are kick ass (IMO), a new country, based on a loose confederation of tribes, trying to find it's identity while most other nations fear it, for it has amongst the most experienced armies in the land, and most of their troops served under YOUR troops at some point or another.

it is a hectic place, and has it's share of problems, but i think it's excellently laid, and might be a great source of adventure! there is a trilogy of books called Legacy of Dhakaan (Don Bassingthwaite) who'se first book is Doom of Kings. excellent to bring the place to life, and the goblinoid people in special.

and speaking of Dhakan, there are the Dhakanni tribes, up in the mountains, with a warrior and casting tradition aging before humans set a foot in Khorvaire, rumored to have a few artifacts in hold, with great warriors and Dirge singer and secrets. as elite a force as any in Khorviare's five nations. and they are scheming...

that's my take on them at least. :smallwink:


Eldan
Or the other REAL power, the Undying Court of Shae Mordai.

Of course, they suffer from an extreme case of Elf Syndrome.
"Ooh, we are so old and wise and powerful. We are like undead, but without the whole evil and blood of the living business. And we are so wise and powerful, we are gods now."


hhmmm... forgot about the elves... they meant me to! indeed, a force that could withstand the might of dragons (even if it was just a training force from the Light of Syberis) might hold secrets indeed. they are immortal- wht do they do with their time? (play yatzee!) wheredo they spirit travel on the astral, what do they plot, what do they see? (they're designing a new rule set for Yatzee. or D&D 5E)