Touch Spells and You: A Discourse on Public Conduct and Magic

[KnejaTurch]

Hello Playgrounders!
I found myself thinking about touch spells. How much touch do you need to touch spell someone? What stops it? If you're party cleric and your fighter goes down, do you have to remove your gauntlets before you can heal him? Does the BBEG have to remove his gloves before he can Inflict Critical Wounds you? If I have a touch spell held, can i discharge it against you when i brush past you, or do my clothes stop it? Can you touch a persons armor with your Inflict Critical Wounds and still have it damage them? Can you have it damage the armor?

Basically: How much, and in what manner, do you have to touch someone for your touch spell to work? :smallconfused:

Thanks! All Replies Appreciated!

EDIT: I guess what i mean more is what are the non-mechanical aspects of touch spelling? I know how the Touch AC and all works, but to the inhabitants of the world, how does it work? Sorry! didnt make that clear!

[Siosilvar]

How much? A touch attack, which ignores armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses to AC.

As for the gloves/gauntlets... whatever works better dramatically. You're not required to remove them by RAW.

[NNescio]

Hello Playgrounders!
I found myself thinking about touch spells. How much touch do you need to touch spell someone? What stops it? If you're party cleric and your fighter goes down, do you have to remove your gauntlets before you can heal him? Does the BBEG have to remove his gloves before he can Inflict Critical Wounds you? If I have a touch spell held, can i discharge it against you when i brush past you, or do my clothes stop it? Can you touch a persons armor with your Inflict Critical Wounds and still have it damage them? Can you have it damage the armor?

Basically: How much, and in what manner, do you have to touch someone for your touch spell to work? :smallconfused:

Thanks! All Replies Appreciated!

All you need to is to touch your target. You can automatically succeed on willing targets (such as allies), but against hostile enemies, you'll need to make a Touch Attack. Effectively, this is an attack against their Touch AC.

Skin-to-skin contact is not required-- Armor bonuses are ignored when calculating Touch AC.

[sonofzeal]

Any contact works. Any part of your body, or any item currently equipped by you that is in your square counts as "you" for most purposes. For example, spells cast against those items use your saving throws. As such, I'd allow contact between any of your items and any of their items to deliver the touch spell.

The one exception: reach weapons like Glaives and Spiked Chains. The part of the weapon that extends outside of your square does not qualify as "you" any more.

[NNescio]

Any contact works. Any part of your body, or any item currently equipped by you that is in your square counts as "you" for most purposes. For example, spells cast against those items use your saving throws. As such, I'd allow contact between any of your items and any of their items to deliver the touch spell.

But you can't channel touch spells through weapons unless you have a feat or class feature that specifically allows that.

[sonofzeal]

But you can't channel touch spells through weapons unless you have a feat or class feature that specifically allows that.

Not quite - you can't channel touch spells through weapons while simultaneously using that weapon to attack for physical damage. That's a significant qualifier.

[Siosilvar]

Not quite - you can't channel touch spells through weapons while simultaneously using that weapon to attack for damage. That's a significant qualifier.

Which implies a touch spell requires an amount of focus on getting the spell through and not just touching something - else the spell would go off if you hit them anyway.

So, to answer the OP's questions more directly... you can touch any of their items with any of your items but you have to use a complete standard action to do it with ("brushing past" doesn't count), be it a separate one from the casting (if you held the charge) or the same one as the casting.

EDIT: And of course, you're still limited to a 5ft range (or your natural reach if you're larger than Medium or smaller than Small) no matter what you use.

[Flickerdart]

Which implies a touch spell requires an amount of focus on getting the spell through and not just touching something - else the spell would go off if you hit them anyway.
"If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm) So no, you need absolutely no focus, the spell will jump to the next thing you touch regardless of what you do.
Curiously enough, you can "channel" spells through unarmed strikes by default, without needing any class features to do so.

[tyckspoon]

But you can't channel touch spells through weapons unless you have a feat or class feature that specifically allows that.

You can't channel a touch spell in such a manner that you hit somebody with the weapon and the spell at the same time. There is (usually) no mechanical difference if you discharge the spell by tapping somebody with your hand and tapping them with your sword otherwise, although default fluff says it gets charged to your hands.

[Keegan__D]

Gloves can be removed as a free action, but I don't know about gauntlets. For the sake of touch spells, you can still wear either, but for the sake of dramatics, I would say removal and replacement of gloves are both free actions.
That's not to say I would allow the player to put on different gloves, since that would be changing magical items.

As for brushing past people, I'd go with a flat-footed touch attack. While just brushing against them wouldn't do it, tapping them with your hand would work just fine. Maybe a slight of hand check for the flat-footed-ness.

Since Repair Light Damage and Cure Light Wounds are two different spells, I would say there's an Inflict Light Damage equivalent out there or yet to be made. Spells that deal damage to objects would work for armor.

[Claudius Maximus]

Gloves can be removed as a free action

Where does it say that? It certainly takes me long enough...

[KillingAScarab]

"If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm) So no, you need absolutely no focus, the spell will jump to the next thing you touch regardless of what you do.Very interesting find. Still, that sentence comes immediately after limits on touching multiple creatures and not all touch spells work upon creatures. For my games, I think I would rule you could accidentally discharge the spell only upon another valid target. For instance, a necromancer wouldn't waste a held animate dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm) if the caster forgot to open a coffin lid, first. Or sneezed and covered their nose. That last one might be a concentration check, though. You're also touching the ground every time you take a step, so moving while holding the charge wouldn't discharge it unless said necromancer stepped on a corpse.

[Keegan__D]

Where does it say that? It certainly takes me long enough...
The SRD used to say Lycanthropes could shed their clothes while changing, meaning it's a free action, but that's crossed out now...
Well, with expensive, non-dress gloves, I would call it a free action if that's what they paid for. A fitting glove that can be pulled off by a few fingers with ease.

[deuxhero]

Easier solution: Fingerless gloves.

[Alleran]

Any contact works. Any part of your body, or any item currently equipped by you that is in your square counts as "you" for most purposes.
*snickersnicker*

Anyway, it's a touch attack, which I'd say is fairly well-defined within the grounds of RAI.

[Uncle Casw]

There is (usually) no mechanical difference if you discharge the spell by tapping somebody with your hand and tapping them with your sword otherwise, although default fluff says it gets charged to your hands.

So, can I add the weapon's enhancement bonus to touch attacks? :smallconfused:

[BlackestOfMages]

So, can I add the weapon's enhancement bonus to touch attacks? :smallconfused:

no, because your enhancement makes it easier for your weapon to cut into armour/skin to hurt people, not actually easier to touch people in general

[Runestar]

*snickersnicker*

You too thought it sounded naughty, eh. :smallwink:

[Tyndmyr]

"If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm) So no, you need absolutely no focus, the spell will jump to the next thing you touch regardless of what you do.
Curiously enough, you can "channel" spells through unarmed strikes by default, without needing any class features to do so.

Incidentally, this makes held touch spells a pretty good defense against grappling.

Pretty hard for most things to grapple you without touching you.

[Keld Denar]

Except as a defense against grapples, you are barring yourself from casting other spells.

As an interesting side effect, if you see a cleric cast a healing spell and not discharge the touch, you could tackle him to steal it.

[graeylin]

You're also touching the ground every time you take a step, so moving while holding the charge wouldn't discharge it unless said necromancer stepped on a corpse.

that's a great example that means you cannot take the original RAW. Unless you are fighting in a vacuum, you are always touching something... ground, air, etc.. So your spells can't be held, or discharged later. But obviously, they can be. Except, the rule says they discharge if you touch ANYTHING. So, maybe that rule means "with your hands". But that defies the other rules, that allow touches to be given with objects, gloved hands, etc..

Oy vey!

[Tyndmyr]

Except as a defense against grapples, you are barring yourself from casting other spells.

It's generally not your only defense against grapples...but it's useful if you miss your touch attack, and it remains charged.

Or, if you get multiple touches or whatever, as per a few spells.