Are the OotS' Linear Guild opposites set in stone?

[FlyingCandles]

I know Nale, Sabime, and Z are Elan, Haley, and V's "opposites" respectively (assuming V comes back, which I figure he will), with the imp and V's raven (Blackwing?) doing their thing too. My question is, is it guaranteed that Thog is (or rather, will remain) Roy's "opposite"? Given Roy's recent rant about how he and Thog aren't opposites, it got me to thinking that maybe they really aren't.

Personally, I think this would make a lot of sense, as I kinda see Thog and Belkar as opposites to each other. Thog's big, dopey, and kind-hearted (in the evil sort of way). He loves his teammates, anyway. On the other end we have Belkar, a short, psychotic, manipulative genius who doesn't really care about his friends (and I use that term loosely). Hell, Belkar's even got Mr. Scruffy now, and Thog loves puppies, so there's even room there for the two to have opposing pets. Plus, Belkar keeps killing off all of the Kobolds who pick fights with him, so he's bound to run out eventually (isn't there a comedic rule of three anyway?). It would certainly be well-timed, given Roy's anti-opposite rant and V's presumed disposal of Belkar's latest Kobold seeker, for the two to become new opposites toward each other. And let's be honest, we've all probably pictured those two fighting at some point or another. It'd be pretty epic, right?

Going off this train of thought, assuming the two of them did pair off, that would just leave Roy and Durkon needing opposites. Personally, I'd like to see Miko make a comeback as Roy's new rival. Maybe the three cloaked demon guys could pull some strings to bring her back as a zombie or something, so she can resume her quest to bring Roy to justice. Her character did have a lot of room to wrap all that up, I think. Plus, her coming back would give Mr. Scruffy a chance to opposite out with her horse, since Belkar would no doubt still want his revenge there.

I'm still iffy on Durkon's new opposite, though I'm inclined to say it'll probably be a returning Celia, or her suitor seeking revenge on Durkon for impregnating her or something. Not really sure there.

Alternatively, if Thog and Belkar became opposites, Roy and Durkon could "opposite out" with Xykon and Redcloak. Given that Roy's already dead set on killing Xykon, it'd save trouble of introducing (or re-introducing) characters to fill in as opposites, and who better to oppose Durkon than Redcloak? They're both their leader's right hand guy, both clerics of opposing fields. Plus, since this would mean that the Linear Guild would be teaming up with Xykon again, The Monster in the Darkness could pair off with Mr. Scruffy as the team mascot.

These are all just random thoughts I've been having, so I thought I'd bounce their plausibility off you guys. I just made this account, so I wanted my first post to contribute more than a "hi, I'm new here!"

Thoughts on this?

[Gandariel]

I'd really like to see Miko come back.. but i'm afraid it would probably result in something banal and not very appreciated. But hey, it's the Giant, if he does he'll pull something great from it.

Roy and Thog ARE opposites. they are two different archetypes of fighter, just like Elan and Nale are two different archetypes of Bard.

Hilyga(or whatever her name is) is probably NOT coming back, or at least i hope she won't. Sabine and Nale are doing well enough dealing with Durkon, and they explicitly said they didn't have another caster.
Z appeared again because the Giant needed someone powerful enough for V to fight, and used Z because of his spell resistance (and giving V good charachter growth)

Oh, and welcome to the Playground!

[Raistlin82]

I'm not 100% sure that the LG is one man short on this fight. However, Hilgya coming back doesn't make sense. As I explained thousand and thousand of times, whereas Zz'dtri "never stopped (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0789.html)" working for Elan, and Leeky Windstaff and Pompey did stop (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html) working for Elan... Hilgya Firehelm never started (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0074.html) working for Elan in the first place: she was just ordered by Loki to steal the Talisman from Nale, so she pretended to be his friend.

Belkar vs Thog makes sense, anyway. The Thog vs Roy rivalry has by now (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0808.html) given all it had to give, while at the same time the same isn't true for ("Schrödinger's") Thog. And yes, I do agree that Belkar and Thog are much more fitting as rivals than Roy and Thog. Roy agrees too: the fact that they're both fighters isn't enough to justify their supposed "rivalry".
Also, let's face it, everytime on these boards somebody mentions Thog, the first character he's compared to is always Belkar. They're two sides of the same coin.

Miko is dead. Her character has had her course. She wasn't so great to start with. And we don't want to diminish her death with a cheap comeback not diminish her character with a zombie or death knight status.

I think Amun-Zora (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0804.html) could be a good opposite for Roy.

[ThePhantasm]

No, it was Haley who was set in stone.

jk

[Sir Conkey]

No, it was Haley who was set in stone.jk

Zing

Also, Sabine didn't say they didn't have another caster. She said they didn't have a caster with them. Which (aside from Nale) they didn't.

[Atcote]

No, it was Haley who was set in stone.

jk

Oh, great, now it's impossible for me to take this rather interesting thread seriously amongst these outbursts of mirth. Well done Mister Ph.

Personally, I see the Linear Guild, at the moment, as being in a somewhat weakened position, and if they have permanently lost their big dumb green guy, well, if they completely lose this fight (as they always have in the past, but then, that's nothing certain), I don't know if they'll come back at full power (after all, there can only be so many Kobolds with class levels in the world). Nale's ability to even gather specific opposites is probably not that strong at the moment; I don't think he's in a buyer's market.

I do like the idea of Roy and Xylon as (kinda) equal opposites; One's melee, one's an innate caster, one thinks most things through, one charges headfirst into everything, one came back from the dead, the other dived into before dying. But it's not really something I think has to be stated in the strip though, but an assumption on our part.

[Manga Shoggoth]

No, it was Haley who was set in stone.


Given the current strip, does that make her Thog's opposite now?

After all, there is no-one more set in stone than Thog at the moment...

[factotum]

As I've said before, I'm sure Nale has realised the stupidity of picking his companions purely to fulfil the evil opposites theme ("I mean, Pompey? What was I possibly thinking?").

[Kish]

The dwarf who was Durkon's first Linear Guild mirror is named Hilgya. Celia is Roy's love interest, a Lawful Good pacifist sylph.

The concept of Xykon and Redcloak joining the Linear Guild is like an ocean being stored in a lake-bed. Xykon is the main villain of the entire story; he is not going to become "Roy's opposite in the Linear Guild."

[FujinAkari]

Hilgya coming back doesn't make sense. As I explained thousand and thousand of times, whereas Zz'dtri "never stopped (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0789.html)" working for Elan, and Leeky Windstaff and Pompey did stop (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0399.html) working for Elan... Hilgya Firehelm never started (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0074.html) working for Elan in the first place.

I don't usually pick on people for making mistakes... but come on...you got it wrong three times in a row!

:)


On a more serious note, I don't think there is an opposite for Durkon, remember Nale didn't know OOTS was even coming until a few days ago so he isn't really prepared for this engagement.

[Roland Itiative]

I wouldn't take Roy's "we're not opposites" rant so seriously... It seems to have been meant only as a set-up for a callback (Thog's "YOU BROKE MY TUSK!", as compared to Roy's "YOU BROKE MY SWORD!" way back in the Dungeon of Dorukan). So, while Roy doesn't recognize that he and Thog are similar in many ways, while completely different in others, they in fact are.

[Kish]

I don't usually pick on people for making mistakes... but come on...you got it wrong three times in a row!
Actually, only once. Zz'dtri would have to start working for Elan before he could stop, and Hilgya certainly never started working for Elan. So the only mistake there is Raistlin82's inexplicable belief that Leeky Windstaff and Pompey once worked for Elan.

:smalltongue:

[Raistlin82]

LOL

Nale! I meant Nale, not not-nale! :thog:

But see... people who can't tell the twins from each other are hilarious! Amun-Zora would make a nice LG member. :smalltongue:

[dtilque]

On a more serious note, I don't think there is an opposite for Durkon, remember Nale didn't know OOTS was even coming until a few days ago so he isn't really prepared for this engagement.

Considering that Nale is planning on overthrowing Tarquin, Malack, and the EoB, you'd figure he'd need a powerful cleric on his side. So why doesn't he have one?

Or does he, but he/she hasn't appeared on stage yet? Kind of late for that in terms of storytelling, so I don't expect one to suddenly appear and join in the battle.

[jidasfire]

I always had the impression, based on Mr. Burlew's commentary in the books, that the Linear Guild are opposites of the Order in the sense that they're designed to create rivalries based on being enough like the Order members that they seem something of them in themselves, but different enough in crucial ways to make them hate each other. Roy hates Thog because Thog is an extremely effective warrior despite being a near-mindless brute who is directed around by someone else. Roy is also very proud of being a single-class fighter, while Thog just min-maxed a couple of levels for the feats and became a barbarian. Thog, therefore, stands in defiance of everything Roy believes worthwhile about himself. It's also worth mentioning that Thog is a remorseless killer who generally gets a pass from people because he's so lovable, something a guy like Roy, who is often the smartest person in the room, would balk at. So I can't really see him ever becoming Belkar's opposite, seeing as Belkar would probably find Thog amusing and has no reason to kill him other than his general bloodlust, which could be more easily applied to softer targets who wouldn't find his daggers ticklish.

Given that, so long as there is a Linear Guild, I suspect Thog will serve the role of Roy's evil opposite (unless he dies here, though I doubt that). He's been around long enough that he's a "true" member of the Guild, and no replacement would be taken seriously or met with anything other than "he's no Thog." However, now that Roy has beaten Thog in battle, it's unlikely they'll have another direct pairing off unless Thog gets a serious power-up.

[factotum]

Considering that Nale is planning on overthrowing Tarquin, Malack, and the EoB

How do you know he's planning that? I'm sure it's his long term plan, but revenge is a dish best served cold. I suspect he's in the EoB purely because it's a nice familiar place to be based while searching for Girard's Gate, rather than because he has immediate plans to dethrone his father and take the place over.

Oh, and note that overthrowing the EoB wouldn't be sufficient anyway--the other four conspirators would just send the armies of their respective empires against EoB if Nale took control. He'd have to figure out a way to either take all six out at once, or become so powerful that he didn't need to worry about them--hence Girard's Gate.

[Kish]

How do you know he's planning that?
My conquest is not quite finished, yet. But it will be soon." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0793.html)

[dtilque]

Thank you, Kish for posting that link. It saved me a little bit of work.

Another point is that even if Nale were first going to take over Girard's gate, he'd probably need a cleric for that too.

[KillianHawkeye]

Given that, so long as there is a Linear Guild, I suspect Thog will serve the role of Roy's evil opposite (unless he dies here, though I doubt that).

I think dying will make Thog even MORE Roy's opposite since Roy has already died and come back. Maybe Thog will become an undead instead of coming back to life, so he can opposite even harder! (Although losing his Con score would sorely diminish his ability to Rage.)

But anyway, I won't believe Thog is dead until we get onscreen confimation.

[Dr.Epic]

Honestly, I still think Thog is much closer to Roy's evil opposite. You could make a decent case anyone is anyone's evil opposite. I remember a while back people thought Therkla would join the LG and Celia would join the Order making Sabine Celia's opposite and Therkla Haley's opposite. I think one of the requirements is they have to resemble the opposite, and tall half orc doesn't look like no halfling.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I'm not 100% sure that the LG is one man short on this fight. However, Hilgya coming back doesn't make sense.

Miko is dead. Her character has had her course. She wasn't so great to start with. And we don't want to diminish her death with a cheap comeback not diminish her character with a zombie or death knight status.


Hilgya coming back doesn't make sense? Maybe not for Nale, but there is another character her return could make a HUGE difference with: Durkon! I know not everybody believes she is pregnant with Durkon's Love Child, but I am one who does. Durkon is all about "Doing his Duty." What greater Duty is there than being a good parent to your child?

As for Miko not being so great, what strip and forum are you reading? You can tell she is great by the amount of controversy she still generates YEARS after her death. Being "Great" doesn't mean you have to like her, but you do have to respect the role she played in the story.

And as for being dead, that's not a game ender in D&D or OotS. Death is just your first chance for a do-over.

Yes, Zombie Miko would be a poor choice, and Rich already eliminated Death Knight Miko, but I can still see a role for Miko. Possibly two-three panels only, but consider Valeria's return just in time to save Conan. Just enough for redemption. Or something else, because to be honest, I never saw Zz'dtri at all!

[Gift Jeraff]

Some of the commentary in DCF (that Rich kept every LGer except Yikyik alive in case he ever wanted to use them again) and W&XPs (that Cliffport wasn't the right time for Hilgya's return) makes me think Hilgya's return is almost guaranteed, though not necessarily as part of the Linear Guild.

[ThePhantasm]

Some of the commentary in DCF (that Rich kept every LGer except Yikyik alive in case he ever wanted to use them again) and W&XPs (that Cliffport wasn't the right time for Hilgya's return) makes me think Hilgya's return is almost guaranteed, though not necessarily as part of the Linear Guild.

Dwarven Lands fo' sho'.