What is a spiked chain anyways?

[deuxhero]

Is there a picture of what they are meant to look like?

Temple of Elemental Evil: A Classic Greyhawk Adventure shows it as this... thing.

http://i54.tinypic.com/6rjyie.png


And that's the only source I know of for a picture.

[Daftendirekt]

This (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=spiked+chain).

FIIIIILLLLEEERRRRR

[deuxhero]

All of which neglect to give a source...

[Kefkafreak]

There's a picture of it in the Player's Handbook...

[Feytalist]

I think the question is where does the inspiration come from, and how would one work.

I think there are a few chain-like ancient Chinese weapons. I seem to remember seeing some kung-fu movie with some neat chain tricks. Stick a few spikes on there, and you're done.

[Keneth]

A chain with spikes is actually rather unwieldy, at least in the most common D&D sense. It would be practically impossible to use a chain which has spikes all over, even if you wore heavy gauntlets to protect yourself from any damage, the thing would get stuck everywhere. I like to imagine a spiked chain having tiny barbs over the length of it, small enough that you are able to tug on it and pry it loose but still deal some considerable slashing damage along with a couple of larger sharpened spikes at the end that could pierce and slash through flesh without having to wrap around. But yeah, the weapon is otherwise completely fictional, I guess it took some inspiration from asian chain weapons and maybe some fictional chain swords.

[Kittenwolf]

I've always imagined the closest thing in real life would be a slightly reinforce Kuri-sigama (spelling no doubt all wrong), but replacing the two ends with either a mini grappling hook type device, or a ball covered in barbs.

[Dr.Epic]

Is there a picture of what they are meant to look like?

Temple of Elemental Evil: A Classic Greyhawk Adventure shows it as this... thing.

http://i54.tinypic.com/6rjyie.png


And that's the only source I know of for a picture.

That's the only picture you know of?:smallconfused: There's an illustration of the weapon in the PHB. I'm not sure how you missed. But a spiked chain is basically a long chain weapon with spiked grafted onto the links.

[Aran Thule]

There was a film called Salute of the Jugger, one of the combatant's used what was effectively a spiked chain.
Here is a link to the trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6qckMHp7wU
Chainage can be spotted at 0:42, 1:07
From memory most fighters used it as a reach weapon but the final fight had someone using it as two shorter weapons.

[Amphetryon]

There was a film called Salute of the Jugger, one of the combatant's used what was effectively a spiked chain.
Here is a link to the trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6qckMHp7wU
Chainage can be spotted at 0:42, 1:07
From memory most fighters used it as a reach weapon but the final fight had someone using it as two shorter weapons.Which is, of course, impossible by RAW, since it's not a double weapon. :smallsigh:

[KillianHawkeye]

I've always imagined the closest thing in real life would be a slightly reinforce Kuri-sigama (spelling no doubt all wrong), but replacing the two ends with either a mini grappling hook type device, or a ball covered in barbs.

For reference: kusari gama

Kusari is the japanese for chain, and kama is a short bladed weapon similar to a sickle. Kama becomes gama when appended to another word (it's a japanese thing).

And now you know! :smallbiggrin:

[Keneth]

Kama becomes gama when appended to another word (it's a japanese thing). That's just the most common romanization that stems from the pronunciation. It comes naturally, since it's hard to say "kusarikama", or rather it ends up sounding like gama anyway unless you try really hard. As far as the japanese are concerned it's written the same either way (鎌).

[Aran Thule]

Which is, of course, impossible by RAW, since it's not a double weapon. :smallsigh:

Could have been a master of chains :smallwink:

[gkathellar]

The closest thing to a real spiked chain is the manrikikusari, a Japanese weapon which is basically a chain with weights at either end. In my mind I just append it to one of those and say the piercing damage is a result of a weight on the end of a chain hitting really, really hard and fast.

[Amphetryon]

Could have been a master of chains :smallwink:

Master of Chains was folded into Exotic Weapon Master for 3.5, by most interpretations I've seen.

[Telonius]

I think the question is where does the inspiration come from, and how would one work.

There's an illustration here (http://drmcninja.com/archives/comic/5p38/)that shows approximately how they'd work.

[dethkruzer]

That's no spiked chain, that is a set of chainsaw-chucks.

[Larpus]

Master of Chains was folded into Exotic Weapon Master for 3.5, by most interpretations I've seen.
Except that such interpretation is incredibly iffy as Exotic Weapon Master doesn't do half of what Master of Chains did, WoTC must've rolled a natural 20 while buffed with Glibness when they made their Bluff check.

Yes, I liked the Master of Chains :smallannoyed:

[Telonius]

That's no spiked chain, that is a set of chainsaw-chucks.

Same principle, though. Can't touch the ends on either of them.

[gkathellar]

Master of Chains was folded into Exotic Weapon Master for 3.5, by most interpretations I've seen.

Where exactly have you seen the interpretation before? Because I've never heard anything to that effect. Ever.

[Keneth]

There's an illustration here (http://drmcninja.com/archives/comic/5p38/)that shows approximately how they'd work. Yeaaaah... no. A spiked chain is not just a nunchaku with a longer chain and spike at each end, that's just lame, as is any type of nunchaku as far as I'm concerned.

[Amphetryon]

Where exactly have you seen the interpretation before? Because I've never heard anything to that effect. Ever.

I've seen it discussed several times in threads at Enworld, GitP, Wizards, and BG.

EDIT: Here (http://tinyurl.com/6hl3o88). It's explicitly stated on Wizard's list from one of these links. Have fun.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Well IIRC OA Kusari-gama could be used as a two handed reach weapon or as a double weapon.

[gkathellar]

I've seen it discussed several times in threads at Enworld, GitP, Wizards, and BG.

EDIT: Here (http://tinyurl.com/6hl3o88). It's explicitly stated on Wizard's list from one of these links. Have fun.

You're right. Wow, that's really stupid. Exotic Weapon Master has nothing to do with Master of Chains.


Well IIRC OA Kusari-gama could be used as a two handed reach weapon or as a double weapon.

You remember correctly.

[Amphetryon]

You're right. Wow, that's really stupid. Exotic Weapon Master has nothing to do with Master of Chains.



You remember correctly.
The really dumb part to me is that the Lasher isn't folded into EWM along with the other examples of the type from 3.0.

[Curmudgeon]

Where exactly have you seen the interpretation before? Because I've never heard anything to that effect. Ever.
There's no interpretation involved. That's part of the earliest official 3.0->3.5 replacement list, which is here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050110x).

[hex0]

Go watch Iron Monkey. :smallwink:

[Mikeavelli]

That's no spiked chain, that is a set of chainsaw-chucks.

I've always imagined it would be something like the Chain Whip that Simon Belmont uses. Just, I dunno, with Spikes on it or something.


http://www.instructables.com/image/FVXRHK9GLPH1N1B/Vampire-Killer.jpg


This doesn't match the official illustration at all, but I believe it matches the mechanics.

[KillianHawkeye]

That's just the most common romanization that stems from the pronunciation. It comes naturally, since it's hard to say "kusarikama", or rather it ends up sounding like gama anyway unless you try really hard. As far as the japanese are concerned it's written the same either way (鎌).

It may be written the same way in japanese, but the pronunciation DOES change. Romanization has nothing to do with it.

[NNescio]

That's just the most common romanization that stems from the pronunciation. It comes naturally, since it's hard to say "kusarikama", or rather it ends up sounding like gama anyway unless you try really hard. As far as the japanese are concerned it's written the same either way (鎌).

It's written as 「くさりがま」 in hiragana though. Romanization has nothing to do with it.

The change from an unvoiced consonant to a voiced one in certain compound words is known as Rendaku (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendaku) (sequential voicing). It is a well documented phenomenon, and the change is reflected in dictionaries, unlike the 'silent' 'u''s in say, 「です」.

[Dimers]

Right ... linguistics aside, OP, you'll find another pic on page 111 of Complete Warrior.

[DoughGuy]

I would like to point out you all lose the internet.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0216.html

[Mr.Bookworm]

The core drawing of a chain with spikes on every single link and all of the ones modeled after it is incredibly stupid. You would slice your hands to ribbons trying to fight with it. Spikes/blades at the end, like a spikier meteor hammer or rope dart, make a lot more sense.

http://arnoldwurzel.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/spikedchain.jpg

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph2_gallery/97166.jpg

These two pictures are probably the best ones in D&D. They're still kind of impractical, but they're not flat-out stupid.

If you don't know how someone would wield a chain weapon, Kill Bill has a pretty decent, if very stylized example. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9iIKn1Bl6c) Here's a demonstration (www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hOL8juiy1w) with a meteor hammer, and there are a bunch more on there.

[Keneth]

It may be written the same way in japanese, but the pronunciation DOES change. Never said it doesn't, I simply said that the change comes naturally and hence the change in the spelling.


It's written as 「くさりがま」 in hiragana though. Romanization has nothing to do with it. Both romanization and spelling it out in kana are used to reflect pronunciation, so it's silly to say it has nothing to do with it.

But yeah, I've expressed myself somewhat poorly. I made it sound like there were romanizations which spell it differently which is not what I meant. Obviously I agree that kusarigama is the correct spelling, I just found it somewhat lacking to say that "kama becomes gama, it's a japanese thing". Good catch on the rendaku though, I didn't know it had a name, I've always used it "by feel". :smallsmile:

[KillianHawkeye]

I just found it somewhat lacking to say that "kama becomes gama, it's a japanese thing". Good catch on the rendaku though, I didn't know it had a name, I've always used it "by feel". :smallsmile:

Well, I didn't know the name of the phenomenon. I just know that it happens quite frequently when japanese words are combined. Sorry for not explaining it better.

[Worira]

Personally, I prefer to think of them as being closer to the picture in Complete Warrior that the one in the PHB. It's really a matter of individual preference, though, and I'd say it's generally up to the player to decide what their character's spiked chain looks like.

[Yora]

I think spiked chains shouldn't exist at all. :smallbiggrin:

[Feytalist]

I've always wondered how you carry them.

"No, it's in my chain sheath."

[2xMachina]

For me, it's wrapped around the waist a few times like a belt, with the head (spike ball or blade) would be in a leather pouch/sheath on the opposite side of you dominant hand.

As you swing it, momentum causes it to unwind.

[Keneth]

I've always wondered how you carry them. In my hand. *badum* *tsss*

Honestly though, coiled up and strapped to my belt. Simple and effective.

[Curmudgeon]

Honestly though, coiled up and strapped to my belt. Simple and effective.
Effective at poking holes in and around your thighs as you walk, I think. :smalleek:

[Amphetryon]

Effective at poking holes in and around your thighs as you walk, I think. :smalleek:

Those are speed-holes, clearly.

[Keneth]

Effective at poking holes in and around your thighs as you walk, I think. :smalleek: Holes in what? Hardened leather? Chain? Metal plate? Unless you're running around naked, with nothing but a belt (i.e. if you're playing a monk), I don't see the problem. :smallconfused:

[Curmudgeon]

Holes in what? Hardened leather? Chain? Metal plate? Unless you're running around naked, with nothing but a belt (i.e. if you're playing a monk), I don't see the problem. :smallconfused:
A Favored Soul worshiping Kossuth or Zoser gets proficiency with spiked chain at 1st level. Unlike Clerics, Favored Souls don't get heavy armor proficiency, so they're better off wearing robes, casting Magic Vestment, and leveraging their WIS spellcasting stat with a Monk's Belt. So yes, basically wearing cloth and a belt.

[gkathellar]

Uh, it seems like casting Magic Vestment on your robes and giving them an armor bonus would have already solved your problem, then.

[Keneth]

@Curmudgeon Are you implying that you couldn't afford some leather protection for your thigh? That's like saying a sword will slice up your leg even though there's this wonderful invention called a scabbard. :smallsmile:

[Curmudgeon]

@Curmudgeon Are you implying that you couldn't afford some leather protection for your thigh? That's like saying a sword will slice up your leg even though there's this wonderful invention called a scabbard. :smallsmile:
Kenneth said he'd carry a spiked chain hanging from his belt, with nothing resembling a scabbard. I just thought that would be painful.

Anyway, D&D doesn't go into that level of detail. You don't buy regular scabbards or worry about the construction of a sling bullet pouch; these weapon carry issues are just assumed to be taken care of. However, protection of your body is dealt with in greater detail. So you can ignore the carry issues for a spiked chain, but not the armor (or lack thereof) consequences if your DM decides to make an issue of that. This is in the same gray area as shoes in the game. Many characters can go around barefoot, but sometimes that causes a problem (e.g., caltrops).

[Keneth]

Kenneth said he'd carry a spiked chain hanging from his belt, with nothing resembling a scabbard. I just thought that would be painful. I said that because I've never played a character with a spiked chain who didn't wear at least light armor. But even if that were the issue, the additional protection required to carry around a coiled up spiked chain strapped to your belt would be implied much like the scabbard for a sword.

Unless your DM is a complete douchebag of course. Which reminds me of a recent situation in one of our group's sessions.


DM: You spring a bear trap that grabs your leg, dealing 12 points of damage. What do you do?
Me: Well, a Strength check is out of the question. Can I try to destroy it?
DM: You can try.
Me: I blast the bear trap and deal 23 points of damage to it.
DM: Alright.
Me: It's not loose yet?
DM: Nope.
Me: 23 points of damage isn't enough to bust the hinges of bear trap?
DM: You didn't say you were attacking the hinges. And now it's your opponent's turn.


What's the lesson of the story? Only the DM gets to decide what is implied. :smallbiggrin: