rules of bull rush and big creatures.

[Kol Korran]

hi. suppose there was some huge creature, like a greater elemental. and it wanted to bull rush medium character Y over a ledge (needing to follow more than the 5ft). but on Y sides are also medium characters X and Z.

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XYZ

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<pit>

can it bull rush Y alone? if Z was one more to the right, could the elemental squeeze through while bull rushing?

if it can't bull rush Y alone, can it Bullrush all 3 characters? perhaps dividing the bull rush bonus?

if not, is it possible to stop a "follow the bullrushed" bull rush of a bigger creature simply by "Stacking up"?

thanks.

(search word: Tomer)

i'd like both RAW interpretation, and i'd also love to hear what others ruled on this.

[Gwendol]

Check out the Knock-back feat (RoS):
Benefit: If you score a hit while you are using the Power Attack feat, you can make a free bull rush attempt against the foe you hit, applying the number by which you reduced your attack roll as a bonus on the opposed Strength check (as well as on the damage you deal). If you hit with a twohanded weapon, you can apply double that number on the opposed Strength check. Unlike standard bull rush attempts, knockback attempts don't provoke attacks of opportunity, and you don't move with the enemy you knock backward.

At least you don't have to move with your target.

[Quirp]

I don´t know the RAW answer, but I would say you have to make an overrun attempt against the two other guys, allowing you to continue on your way bull rushing Y.

[teslas]

RAW you can't use Overrun while you're charging or bull rushing. RAW you are not allowed to bull rush more than one target.

RAW, you cannot bull rush creature Y.

Also, RAW, you can -NEVER- squeeze while charging (Tunnel Fighting feat might have some sort of exception?). And even if you did squeeze, a Huge creature cannot squeeze into a 5' wide area. You squeeze into half your space rounded up, which is 10'. Squeezing any more than that requires Escape Artist checks, and now we're REALLY in the realm of things you can't do while charging or probably shouldn't be doing while bull rushing.


All that being said, if you're the DM, and you want this to happen, you need to decide if you want to follow RAW and see it as impossible or house-rule your own solution. I'd suggest something like below:

Flying quick and dirty, I'd just have it roll a bull rush against all of them and allow all of them an attack of opportunity. I'd probably also give the elemental a penalty on its check, somewhere around -4 (-2 for each additional Medium thing it's pushing). This is fair-ish to the players, because 1: they get three chances to resist the penalized rush, stopping it completely or prematurely for all three, and 2: they get free attacks. This is also good fun because they feel like they're fighting as a team and resisting the charge of this massive creature together. They might also try to split up afterward to avoid being knocked back, and this could leave one of them ripe for the elemental's next turn of bull-rushery (if it's still alive).

[Kol Korran]

< RAW stuff >

All that being said, if you're the DM, and you want this to happen, you need to decide if you want to follow RAW and see it as impossible or house-rule your own solution. I'd suggest something like below:

Flying quick and dirty, I'd just have it roll a bull rush against all of them and allow all of them an attack of opportunity. I'd probably also give the elemental a penalty on its check, somewhere around -4 (-2 for each additional Medium thing it's pushing). This is fair-ish to the players, because 1: they get three chances to resist the penalized rush, stopping it completely or prematurely for all three, and 2: they get free attacks. This is also good fun because they feel like they're fighting as a team and resisting the charge of this massive creature together. They might also try to split up afterward to avoid being knocked back, and this could leave one of them ripe for the elemental's next turn of bull-rushery (if it's still alive).

thanks! i like your idea, it sound fair, and equally important- it sounds fun! thank you! :smallwink: